llvm dev - May 2021 - [cfe-dev] [RFC] Deprecate email code reviews in favor of Phabricator

You're right that doing post-commit reviews on Phabricator is not
seamless---the rG link is not included anywhere.  Hopefully that could be fixed
with some Phabricator configuration tweaks, like sending the commit email to the
-commits list.

I'm not sure if there is a general fix for the spam issue.  I have had this
problem as well with the existing lists, so it's not limited to Phabricator.
In our spam filter I have whitelisted enough emails to avoid the unnecessary
filtering almost completely, but it is an issue nevertheless.


-- 
Krzysztof Parzyszek  kparzysz at quicinc.com   AI tools development

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Ballman <aaron at aaronballman.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2021 6:24 AM
To: Krzysztof Parzyszek <kparzysz at quicinc.com>
Cc: llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>; clangd-dev at lists.llvm.org;
openmp-dev at lists.llvm.org; lldb-dev at lists.llvm.org; cfe-dev at
lists.llvm.org; libcxx-dev at lists.llvm.org; flang-dev at lists.llvm.org;
parallel_libs-dev at lists.llvm.org
Subject: [EXT] Re: [cfe-dev] [RFC] Deprecate email code reviews in favor of
Phabricator

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 1:24 PM Krzysztof Parzyszek via cfe-dev <cfe-dev at
lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
> Statement:
>
> Our current code review policy states[1]:
>
> “Code reviews are conducted, in order of preference, on our web-based
code-review tool (see Code Reviews with Phabricator), by email on the relevant
project’s commit mailing list, on the project’s development list, or on the bug
tracker.”
>
> This proposal is to limit code reviews only to Phabricator.  This would
apply to all projects in the LLVM monorepo.  With the change in effect, the
amended policy would read:
>
> “Code reviews are conducted on our web-based code-review tool (see Code
Reviews with Phabricator).”
Personally, I am in favor of this policy for initiating code reviews, but am
opposed to it for post-commit feedback. The problem, as I see it, is that not
every change *gets* code review via Phab and the email lists are the only place
on which to provide that post-commit feedback. This largely comes up in two
ways: NFC changes and changes made by code owners in the area of the compiler
which they own. We still need *some* mechanism by which to provide them
post-commit feedback. Currently, the way we provide that is frequently via an
email reply to the commit message on the *-commits list so that the issue can be
seen by both the patch author and the community at large.
> Current situation:
>
> In a recent llvm-dev thread[2], Christian Kühnel pointed out that 
> pre-commit code reviews rarely originate via an email (most are started on
Phabricator), although, as others pointed out, email responses to an ongoing
review are not uncommon.  (That thread also contains examples of mishaps related
to the email-Phabricator interactions, or email handling itself.) I don’t have
specific information about post-commit reviews.  It seems like the most common
form is an email reply to the auto-generated commit message, although (in my
personal experience), “raising a concern” in the commit on Phabricator or
commenting in the pre-commit review is usually sufficient to get author’s
attention.
> We have Phabricator patches that automatically apply email comments to the
Phabricator reviews, although reportedly this functionality is not fully
reliable[3,4].  This can cause review comments to be lost in the email traffic.
>
>
>
> Benefits:
>
> Single way of doing code reviews: code reviews are a key part of the
development process, and having one way of performing them would make the
process clearer and unambiguous.
> Review authors and reviewers would only need to monitor one source of
comments without the fear that a review comment may end up overlooked.
> Local Phabricator extensions would no longer be needed.
>
>
>
> Concerns:
>
> For post-commit reviews, the commenter would need to find either the
original review, or the Phabricator commit (e.g.
https://reviews.llvm.org/rG06234f758e19).  Those are communicated (perhaps
ironically) via email, which implies that those automatic emails should remain
in place.
The Phab commit message does not have any subscribers though, and so my
understanding is that comments on that Phab interface are not communicated out
to the community as a whole, which means the community may miss out on important
post-commit-review information like general awareness of the problem,
workarounds people can use until the author corrects something, alternative
ideas on how to fix the issue, etc. Or do I misunderstand the way Phab works in
this workflow?

Also, "the commenter would need to find the Phabricator commit"
concerns me -- adding extra burden on the people providing feedback means that
*some* amount of those people will struggle enough to simply not provide that
feedback. Responding to an email is about as low as I think we can set that bar,
so the current approach has better ergonomics for giving feedback. When I look
at an existing NFC commit email
(https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-commits/Week-of-Mon-20210503/368413.html),
I don't see any direct link back to the Phabricator commit, so I have to
know to get the hash and try using that with an https://reviews.llvm.org/rG in
front of it. None of the existing links in the email get me to where I'd
need to go to add my review feedback, but hitting the Reply button in my mail
client will work. Adding a third link and telling people "click on the link
in the email" means they've got a 50/50 shot of getting the right link
because one of the links goes to GitHub where you can also add comments.
> The current policy has been in place for a long time and it’s expected that
some people will continue using email for reviews out of habit or due to lack of
awareness of the policy change.
> Because of the larger variety, email clients may offer better accessibility
options than web browsers.
>
>
>
> Potential future direction:
>
> This section presents a potential future evolution of the review process. 
Christian has conducted experiments suggesting that we can replace the
XXX-commits mailing lists with notifications directly from Phabricator:
>
> For each of the mailing lists, we create a "project" with the
same name in Phabricator, e.g. [5]. Every Phabricator user can join/leave these
projects on their own.
> Everyone on these projects will receive the same email notifications from
Phabricator as we have on the mailing lists. This is configured via
"Herald" rules in Phabricator, as today, e.g. [7].
Tangential complaint -- our use of Herald causes some pain for me as a list
moderator because we've reached the point where Herald automatically adds so
many subscribers to a review that it gets marked as spam for every email that is
generated for the review. It's to the point on cfe-dev where over half of
the moderated emails are consistently not spam some weeks. This delays the
community receiving the information while the patch reviewers/subscribers
continue to get it. In turn, this causes a problem where sometimes the people
subscribed to the patch say something is OK and the patch lands before the
community ever sees the review and has a chance to comment on it.
I'm wary of suggestions that involve heavier use of Herald until we get that
mailing list issue resolved.
> Users can reply to these email notifications and Phabricator will
incorporate these responses with their email client, see [6] for some example
emails. Quoting and markup is supported as well.
> We do NOT migrate the membership lists. Users need to sign up to the
projects manually. We will send an email with instructions to the mailing lists
once everything is set up.
> The current XXX-commits mailing lists will be shut down The timeline 
> for the migration is to be defined.
Given how often Phabricator goes down (which is not super often, but often
enough that people know it happens), I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea of
shutting down the current *-commits mailing lists because of the chance for data
loss. Personally, I think the *-commits lists are working well and I would
prefer they be left alone.

~Aaron
>
> For experimenting, feel free to sign up to the prototype project at [5] .
This project receives all commit and code review notifications.
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] 
> https://llvm.org/docs/CodeReview.html#what-tools-are-used-for-code-rev
> iew
>
> [2] https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2021-April/150129.html
>
> [3] https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2021-April/150136.html
>
> [4] https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2021-April/150139.html
>
> [5] https://reviews.llvm.org/project/view/104/
>
> [6] https://reviews.llvm.org/D101432
>
> [7] https://reviews.llvm.org/H769
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Krzysztof Parzyszek  kparzysz at quicinc.com   AI tools development
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> cfe-dev mailing list
> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev

> You're right that doing post-commit reviews on Phabricator is not
> seamless---the rG link is not included anywhere.  Hopefully that could be
> fixed with some Phabricator configuration tweaks, like sending the commit
> email to the -commits list.
The commit email has a URL: link, e.g. this recent one (which has no
Dnnnnn review):

URL:
https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/commit/b04148f77713c92ee57b33b7b858ad18ce8d78e3

Does that take you to a different place than the rG link would?
Seems like they ought to go to the same place.
--paulr