Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev
2020-Feb-18 18:15 UTC
[llvm-dev] Code of Conduct Next Steps - Community feedback needed
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:55 AM David Chisnall via llvm-dev < llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> Hi Tanya, > > On 18/02/2020 00:56, Tanya Lattner wrote: > > I understand not everyone wants to use Google docs which was why I gave > an option to reply via email as well. My intention on using Google docs is > really just based on my experience using it for docs that span different > groups of people and it is what I primarily use for text documents. > > As I understand it from the pop-ups on the page, I cannot *read* a > Google doc without agreeing to a somewhat invasive privacy policy. As > such, an option to reply via email does not help me if my goal is to > avoid agreeing to this policy. >I wonder what kind of popup you got? I opened the link in a "private window" of my browser, I am not logged into any Google service, and the doc just opens directly without any popup. I can also comment "anonymously" on the document apparently. I would expect that the experience I relate here is "privacy friendly"? (I'm curious why you didn't get the same, maybe connecting from Europe imposes the popup?).> > Irrespective of your intent (and I strongly believe that this is not > your intention) or the value of the tools, the message that you are > sending is being received as 'you must agree to Google's privacy policy > to participate in discussions that are core to the LLVM community'. > Your replies in this thread are being perceived as the LLVM Foundation > does not care and does not value the privacy of its constituency. > > The CoC draft currently on the LLVM web site states: > > > Be considerate. Your work will be used by other people, and you in > turn will depend on the work of others. Any decision you take will > affect users and colleagues, and you should take those consequences into > account > > During the switch to GitHub, there were very long discussions about > moving to a tool that is blocked in some countries, is under the control > of a single company, and requires signing up to a fairly complex set of > T&Cs to use. The consensus (though not unanimous) view was that the > benefits significantly outweighed the costs. This deliberation process > took several months and the community heard many arguments on both sides. > > A similar discussion took place with regards to Discord and the privacy > policy there was seen as a reason that a sufficiently large proportion > of the community would not wish to participate that it was a problem. > There has been no such deliberation on the merits of Google Docs (or > Office 365, or any other proprietary document hosting service). > > If placing this on Google Docs was your personal decision and not any > form of official LLVM Foundation policy, then I would ask that you > reflect on what I have said and place it in a more inclusive location, > such as a Phabricator diff to the existing CoC. > > David > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200218/290c8d4b/attachment.html>
Alex Denisov via llvm-dev
2020-Feb-19 09:15 UTC
[llvm-dev] Code of Conduct Next Steps - Community feedback needed
> I wonder what kind of popup you got? I opened the link in a "private window" of my browser, I am not logged into any Google service, and the doc just opens directly without any popup. I can also comment "anonymously" on the document apparently. I would expect that the experience I relate here is "privacy friendly"? (I'm curious why you didn't get the same, maybe connecting from Europe imposes the popup?).+1. No popups, I can view and comment on the doc from a private session from Berlin, Germany.> On 18. Feb 2020, at 19:15, Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:55 AM David Chisnall via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote: > Hi Tanya, > > On 18/02/2020 00:56, Tanya Lattner wrote: > > I understand not everyone wants to use Google docs which was why I gave an option to reply via email as well. My intention on using Google docs is really just based on my experience using it for docs that span different groups of people and it is what I primarily use for text documents. > > As I understand it from the pop-ups on the page, I cannot *read* a > Google doc without agreeing to a somewhat invasive privacy policy. As > such, an option to reply via email does not help me if my goal is to > avoid agreeing to this policy. > > I wonder what kind of popup you got? I opened the link in a "private window" of my browser, I am not logged into any Google service, and the doc just opens directly without any popup. I can also comment "anonymously" on the document apparently. I would expect that the experience I relate here is "privacy friendly"? (I'm curious why you didn't get the same, maybe connecting from Europe imposes the popup?). > > > > Irrespective of your intent (and I strongly believe that this is not > your intention) or the value of the tools, the message that you are > sending is being received as 'you must agree to Google's privacy policy > to participate in discussions that are core to the LLVM community'. > Your replies in this thread are being perceived as the LLVM Foundation > does not care and does not value the privacy of its constituency. > > The CoC draft currently on the LLVM web site states: > > > Be considerate. Your work will be used by other people, and you in > turn will depend on the work of others. Any decision you take will > affect users and colleagues, and you should take those consequences into > account > > During the switch to GitHub, there were very long discussions about > moving to a tool that is blocked in some countries, is under the control > of a single company, and requires signing up to a fairly complex set of > T&Cs to use. The consensus (though not unanimous) view was that the > benefits significantly outweighed the costs. This deliberation process > took several months and the community heard many arguments on both sides. > > A similar discussion took place with regards to Discord and the privacy > policy there was seen as a reason that a sufficiently large proportion > of the community would not wish to participate that it was a problem. > There has been no such deliberation on the merits of Google Docs (or > Office 365, or any other proprietary document hosting service). > > If placing this on Google Docs was your personal decision and not any > form of official LLVM Foundation policy, then I would ask that you > reflect on what I have said and place it in a more inclusive location, > such as a Phabricator diff to the existing CoC. > > David > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev <https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev> > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev <https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev>-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200219/c1804139/attachment-0001.html>
C Bergström via llvm-dev
2020-Feb-19 09:20 UTC
[llvm-dev] Code of Conduct Next Steps - Community feedback needed
I think his point is that he hasn't agreed to any goog anything. You're probably signed in with your gmail and or maybe you previously signed in with your gmail. On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:15 PM Alex Denisov via llvm-dev < llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> I wonder what kind of popup you got? I opened the link in a "private > window" of my browser, I am not logged into any Google service, and the doc > just opens directly without any popup. I can also comment "anonymously" on > the document apparently. I would expect that the experience I relate here > is "privacy friendly"? (I'm curious why you didn't get the same, maybe > connecting from Europe imposes the popup?). > > > +1. No popups, I can view and comment on the doc from a private session > from Berlin, Germany. > > On 18. Feb 2020, at 19:15, Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev < > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:55 AM David Chisnall via llvm-dev < > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > >> Hi Tanya, >> >> On 18/02/2020 00:56, Tanya Lattner wrote: >> > I understand not everyone wants to use Google docs which was why I gave >> an option to reply via email as well. My intention on using Google docs is >> really just based on my experience using it for docs that span different >> groups of people and it is what I primarily use for text documents. >> >> As I understand it from the pop-ups on the page, I cannot *read* a >> Google doc without agreeing to a somewhat invasive privacy policy. As >> such, an option to reply via email does not help me if my goal is to >> avoid agreeing to this policy. >> > > I wonder what kind of popup you got? I opened the link in a "private > window" of my browser, I am not logged into any Google service, and the doc > just opens directly without any popup. I can also comment "anonymously" on > the document apparently. I would expect that the experience I relate here > is "privacy friendly"? (I'm curious why you didn't get the same, maybe > connecting from Europe imposes the popup?). > > > >> >> Irrespective of your intent (and I strongly believe that this is not >> your intention) or the value of the tools, the message that you are >> sending is being received as 'you must agree to Google's privacy policy >> to participate in discussions that are core to the LLVM community'. >> Your replies in this thread are being perceived as the LLVM Foundation >> does not care and does not value the privacy of its constituency. >> >> The CoC draft currently on the LLVM web site states: >> >> > Be considerate. Your work will be used by other people, and you in >> turn will depend on the work of others. Any decision you take will >> affect users and colleagues, and you should take those consequences into >> account >> >> During the switch to GitHub, there were very long discussions about >> moving to a tool that is blocked in some countries, is under the control >> of a single company, and requires signing up to a fairly complex set of >> T&Cs to use. The consensus (though not unanimous) view was that the >> benefits significantly outweighed the costs. This deliberation process >> took several months and the community heard many arguments on both sides. >> >> A similar discussion took place with regards to Discord and the privacy >> policy there was seen as a reason that a sufficiently large proportion >> of the community would not wish to participate that it was a problem. >> There has been no such deliberation on the merits of Google Docs (or >> Office 365, or any other proprietary document hosting service). >> >> If placing this on Google Docs was your personal decision and not any >> form of official LLVM Foundation policy, then I would ask that you >> reflect on what I have said and place it in a more inclusive location, >> such as a Phabricator diff to the existing CoC. >> >> David >> _______________________________________________ >> LLVM Developers mailing list >> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org >> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >> > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200219/7270ec14/attachment.html>