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jon via llvm-dev

2019-Jul-12 05:42 UTC

[llvm-dev] Sigh. I’ve been through like 5 mailing lists and got trolled off each one. Let’s start simple

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class=""><br class=""><div><br
class=""><blockquote type="cite"
class=""><div class="">On Jul 8, 2019, at 4:40 PM,
JF Bastien <<a href="mailto:jfbastien@apple.com"
class="">jfbastien@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div
class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div
style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">Against all expectations, I’m not
going to troll :-)<br class=""><div
class=""><br class=""><blockquote
type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul
8, 2019, at 3:36 PM, Unidef via llvm-dev <<a
href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"
class="">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>>
wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div
class=""><div class=""><p
class="">A secure macro</p><p class="">It’s
like static but well optimized. Any ideas how I can implement it universally? I
thought about a secure application to help with compiling and security. It’s
like sudo but more secure and can chain. I don’t know much about pipes and
streams, but I’m pretty sure I can write it into llvm with enough time and
help.</p></div></div></blockquote><div
class=""><br class=""></div><div
class="">I don’t understand what you’re going for. Could you have
more details, maybe with examples to show what you have in
mind?</div><div class=""><br
class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br
class=""></div><div>I dont know function macros well,
but I hate macros. I think they’re a hack and they dont belong in C languages
because of their complexity, but here I go. I dont know C function macros well
=( and dont make fun of me, CARL. NOW WHOS LAUGHING STEVE. NOW WHOS
LAUGHING</div><div><br
class=""></div><div>Well, now that I googled c function
macro, how about we change #define secure to #define encrypt1on, hook it up to
letsencrypt, and encrypt all uncompiled and compiled data to the cloud? Using
CLOUD ASSEMBLY!!</div><div><br
class=""></div><div>Now that I googled more stuff, my
example code is</div><div><br
class=""></div><div>Instead
of</div><div><br
class=""></div><div>Static printf(128ptr
args){}</div><div><br
class=""></div><div>It’ll be encrypt1on statics
printf(128ptr args){}</div><div><br
class=""></div><div>Or even
better</div><div><br
class=""></div><div>Secure encryption1on static
printf(128ptr args){}</div><div><br
class=""></div><div><br
class=""></div><div>128ptr is a macro that
does</div><div><br
class=""></div><div>#define 128ptr (double long
*)(malloc(sizeof(double long * NEURAL_ARRAY)); // along with mutliple
dimensions</div><div><br
class=""></div><div>I have to read a few books and read
the ENTIRE llvm source for this to make sense. I dont mind being trolled right
now because I think I look stupid, and im just a professional
clown.</div><br class=""><blockquote
type="cite" class=""><div
class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"
class=""><div class=""><br
class=""><blockquote type="cite"
class=""><div class=""><div
class=""><p class="">Another thing, and I got
trolled off gcc’s mailing list for this, we need multidimensional
multidirectional binary tree functions, I call them graphs because someone on
Usenet told me they replicate a graph since they work on multiple dimensions.
Now this is memory intensive if you don’t implement rolling dma, I suggest
something modularized into the kernel to save cpu
cycles.</p></div></div></blockquote><div
class=""><br class=""></div><div
class="">This sounds totally unrelated to the above. Could you fork
it to another email thread, and again expand onto what you’re talking about. Is
this about a data structure in LLVM’s own code? In the C++ standard? What’s the
use for it?</div><div class=""><br
class=""></div><br
class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br
class=""></div><div><br
class=""></div>Sorry, im over it. Im sorry for bringing my
personal problems into this mailing list. I’ve been warned and ive heeded.<br
class=""><blockquote type="cite"
class=""><div class=""><div
style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class=""><div
class=""><blockquote type="cite"
class=""><div class=""><div
class=""><p class="">I understand xnu is written in
c++, is it that hard to rewrite all of llvm in optimized, oh well, since I’ve
had the worst day of my life, I’ll call It unidefnet coding subsystem,
multidimensional multidirectional binary graphs to simulate a neural
network?</p></div></div></blockquote><div
class=""><br class=""></div>XNU the OS?
It's mostly C. I don’t understand what you’re saying about neural
nets.</div><div class=""><br
class=""></div><div class=""><br
class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br
class=""></div><div><br
class=""></div>Xnu the kernel. After im done im going to
implement mdmdbt graphs in xnu and try to make it into a secure kernel for
server operations unless someone stops me<br
class=""><blockquote type="cite"
class=""><div class=""><div
style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class=""><div
class=""><blockquote type="cite"
class=""><div class=""><div
class=""><p class="">A neural network is a mdmdbt
tied to a master function or protocol or even kernel module tied to the internet
structure of the kernel to provide a database</p><p
class="">Anyone want to join?</p><p
class="">Unidef</p><p class="">Ps if you
troll me I’ll just leave, not the first time I left an internet
platform</p><div class=""><br
class=""></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br
class=""></div><div><br
class=""></div>Ok this is going to be the hardest, im going
to have to copy and paste code</div><div><br
class=""></div><div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">jons-MacBook-Pro:Downloads jon$
cat types.h </span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">#pragma
once</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">#include
"sys.h"</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">#include
"typedefs.h"</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;
min-height: 13px;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">// data
structures</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;
min-height: 13px;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">struct neural
{</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  ID
id;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  char
*description;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  NODE
*dimension[NEURAL_ARRAY][NEURAL_ARRAY][NEURAL_ARRAY];</span></div><div
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height:
normal; font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class="">} *N;</span></div><div style="margin:
0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">struct neural_node
{</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  ID
id;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  DOC
description;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  ERROR
(*exception)(NODE,DOC,SYS);   // exception handling, thank you Harvard
professor. Must delete function offset before reaching scheduler I think, I just
overheard this in class</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  NODE
*up;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  NODE
*down;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  NODE
*left;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">  NODE
*right;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class="">  NODE *direction[NEURAL_ARRAY]; // this ones a
doozy</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal;
font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">}
*NN;</span></div><div class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class=""><br
class=""></span></div><div
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class=""><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">jons-MacBook-Pro:Downloads jon$
cat typedefs.h </span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">#pragma
once</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">#include
"types.h"</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;
min-height: 13px;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural_node
NODE;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
OPERATIONS;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
SQL;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
TEST;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
DOC;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
ERROR;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
NEURON;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
NETWORKING;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;
font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
NETWORK;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
IO;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
QUANTUM;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo;"
class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class="">typedef struct neural
AI;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class=""><span style="font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures" class=""></span><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class=""><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class="">That’s the basics of my neural network code.
Its a small database made to be decentralized unlike sql and its friend tinysql
or whatever. Its made to be a protocol but python is just so bourgiese, id
rather code it in assembly but ive been swamped with work</div><div
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height:
normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class=""><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class="">NOTICE</div><div style="margin:
0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family:
Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class=""><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class="">Also the graph doesn’t work. I also need to
write sort, abstraction, search, and above all move operations.. feel free to
fork, by 10:30pm PST Monday July 8th it should be available on GitHub at <a
href="https://u11118262.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=wFa61dLReLL4rLypSmB8qIFiXw97VvU-2Bb6mQeyLLhp4cmRyGfnNH9b2IVEPdA0VS_zjlWlLhxluiBg0E0xnXWSZPun4vSu1FQnYfQcRzrWj56Uns9WNJpbimnVI1uVlymun6iP8fk9sEMVM-2B1e85TtUdfcZKutyQIRzDjQ0b1qvhhvZbnK4YTjNco4RZvtZViB-2BPM8PKIRx0aWk8jCf-2BPnjNMXTrc6d2DMgR53ztzKDDP9siEskb5w5VCm8vrS28RPFQTdQ6dI0cFMFhdoLoHfFN7GzWBwOYyBISisx0-2BxlU-3D"
class="">GitHub.com/unidef/qlib</a></div><div
style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 11px; line-height:
normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height: 13px;" class=""><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class=""><br
class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch:
normal; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal; font-family: Menlo; min-height:
13px;" class="">This makes sense right? Thanks for your reply
jf, really helped me and I think ill dig through the xnu kernel, llvm, a few
books, and rewrite qlib, maybe ill send it to apple for their phones.. man I
gotta write a network.h/c</div></span></div><blockquote
type="cite" class=""><div
class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"
class=""><div class=""><blockquote
type="cite" class=""><div
class=""><div class=""><p
class="">Sent from my iPhone</p>

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Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev

2019-Jul-13 15:24 UTC

head link

[llvm-dev] Sigh. I’ve been through like 5 mailing lists and got trolled off each one. Let’s start simple

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 7:42 AM jon via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org>
wrote:
> Well, now that I googled c function macro, how about we change #define
> secure to #define encrypt1on, hook it up to letsencrypt, and encrypt all
> uncompiled and compiled data to the cloud? Using CLOUD ASSEMBLY!!
>
> Now that I googled more stuff, my example code is
>
> Instead of
>
> Static printf(128ptr args){}
>
> It’ll be encrypt1on statics printf(128ptr args){}
>
> Or even better
>
> Secure encryption1on static printf(128ptr args){}
>
>
> 128ptr is a macro that does
>
> #define 128ptr (double long *)(malloc(sizeof(double long * NEURAL_ARRAY));
> // along with mutliple dimensions
>
All of this seems like you're looking to change / enhance the C / C++
programming language. There may be a useful thing here, I'm not sure yet,
but I don't think llvm-dev@ is a good place to work on this. This kind of
discussion is better suited to a forum for exploring language feature
design. It's pretty off-topic here.

I understand xnu is written in c++, is it that hard to rewrite all of
llvm> in optimized, oh well, since I’ve had the worst day of my life, I’ll call
> It unidefnet coding subsystem, multidimensional multidirectional binary
> graphs to simulate a neural network?
>
>
> XNU the OS? It's mostly C. I don’t understand what you’re saying about
> neural nets.
>
>
>
>
> Xnu the kernel. After im done im going to implement mdmdbt graphs in xnu
> and try to make it into a secure kernel for server operations unless
> someone stops me
>
Again, I feel like this mailing list isn't really a useful one to discuss
this... Secure kernel programming is also pretty far off topic and so I
suspect there just isn't anyone who can really comment or contribute.
I'd
suggest finding a secure kernel / secure OS research group or community to
discuss this with instead maybe?


Anyways, sorry you can't find more help here. I don't think anyone is
trolling you or anything else. Just that this list is mostly folks
discussing LLVM and neither of these really deals with LLVM it seems.

-Chandler
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Praveen Velliengiri via llvm-dev

2019-Jul-13 15:56 UTC

head link

[llvm-dev] Sigh. I’ve been through like 5 mailing lists and got trolled off each one. Let’s start simple

https://0x00sec.org/ - I think this *maybe* be a right channel :)
Thanks

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 at 20:54, Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 7:42 AM jon via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, now that I googled c function macro, how about we change #define
>> secure to #define encrypt1on, hook it up to letsencrypt, and encrypt
all
>> uncompiled and compiled data to the cloud? Using CLOUD ASSEMBLY!!
>>
>> Now that I googled more stuff, my example code is
>>
>> Instead of
>>
>> Static printf(128ptr args){}
>>
>> It’ll be encrypt1on statics printf(128ptr args){}
>>
>> Or even better
>>
>> Secure encryption1on static printf(128ptr args){}
>>
>>
>> 128ptr is a macro that does
>>
>> #define 128ptr (double long *)(malloc(sizeof(double long *
>> NEURAL_ARRAY)); // along with mutliple dimensions
>>
>
> All of this seems like you're looking to change / enhance the C / C++
> programming language. There may be a useful thing here, I'm not sure
yet,
> but I don't think llvm-dev@ is a good place to work on this. This kind
of
> discussion is better suited to a forum for exploring language feature
> design. It's pretty off-topic here.
>
> I understand xnu is written in c++, is it that hard to rewrite all of llvm
>> in optimized, oh well, since I’ve had the worst day of my life, I’ll
call
>> It unidefnet coding subsystem, multidimensional multidirectional binary
>> graphs to simulate a neural network?
>>
>>
>> XNU the OS? It's mostly C. I don’t understand what you’re saying
about
>> neural nets.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Xnu the kernel. After im done im going to implement mdmdbt graphs in
xnu
>> and try to make it into a secure kernel for server operations unless
>> someone stops me
>>
>
> Again, I feel like this mailing list isn't really a useful one to
discuss
> this... Secure kernel programming is also pretty far off topic and so I
> suspect there just isn't anyone who can really comment or contribute.
I'd
> suggest finding a secure kernel / secure OS research group or community to
> discuss this with instead maybe?
>
>
> Anyways, sorry you can't find more help here. I don't think anyone
is
> trolling you or anything else. Just that this list is mostly folks
> discussing LLVM and neither of these really deals with LLVM it seems.
>
> -Chandler
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
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llvm dev - Jul 2019 - Sigh. I’ve been through like 5 mailing lists and got trolled off each one. Let’s start simple

[llvm-dev] Sigh. I’ve been through like 5 mailing lists and got trolled off each one. Let’s start simple

[llvm-dev] Sigh. I’ve been through like 5 mailing lists and got trolled off each one. Let’s start simple

[llvm-dev] Sigh. I’ve been through like 5 mailing lists and got trolled off each one. Let’s start simple