Hi Makia, hi list. Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the Sun HPC software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to hear that the perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You caught us by surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to CentOS w/ Sun stack. We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient for a HPC software development stack. From a Computing Center point of view, the prospect of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature built in is just great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In our case, the system management group does not like to do that work, for various (good) reasons. So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen University) are asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and Samuel (I don''t know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure Dieter could elaborate more on this topic if you like. Kind regards, Christian -- Dipl.-Inform. Christian Terboven - High Performance Computing RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) Phone.: +49 241 80 24375 - Fax: +49 241 80 22504 mailto:terboven at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.lustre.org/pipermail/linux_hpc_swstack/attachments/20081116/3442c608/attachment.bin
This is really bad news. In the good old days, we saw information about the MFlop/s rate etc. in the jobs statistics. On the current and even more on the upcoming multicore processors we need performance information to find out how to optimally load the nodes. One thread per core (or per hardware thread) is by far not always optimal. Good old days of Sparc/Solaris where the HW counters were so nicely available ! best regards Dieter Terboven, Christian schrieb:> Hi Makia, hi list. > > Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the Sun HPC > software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to hear that the > perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see > http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You caught us by > surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to CentOS w/ Sun > stack. > > We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient for a HPC > software development stack. From a Computing Center point of view, the prospect > of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature built in is just > great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In our case, the > system management group does not like to do that work, for various (good) > reasons. > > So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen University) are > asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and Samuel (I don''t > know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure Dieter could > elaborate more on this topic if you like. > > > Kind regards, > Christian > -- > Dipl.-Inform. Christian Terboven - High Performance Computing > RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication > Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) > Phone.: +49 241 80 24375 - Fax: +49 241 80 22504 > mailto:terboven at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dieter an Mey High Performance Computing Hochleistungsrechnen RWTH Aachen University Rechen- und Kommunikations- Center for Computing and Communication zentrum der RWTH Aachen phone: ++49-(0)241-80-24377 Seffenter Weg 23 fax: ++49-(0)241-80-22134 52074 Aachen, Germany email: anmey at rz.rwth-aachen.de --------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks very much for starting this thread; this is the kind of input we need to hear. Initially (for 1.0) we had released a kernel that included the perfctr patches. This was done with a guess that people needed it, but no real requests behind it. Over time, we hadn''t heard of people needing/using it, and in a way to help keep the base stack as compliant as possible, we went down the road of not modifying the kernel at all, and just using what''s supported. Based on this new information, we''re internally attempting to figure out how to handle this long-term, and once we have an idea we''ll let people know. The current idea is that it will probably reappear in 1.2, but no later than in 2.0. Thanks again for the request. On Nov 16, 2008, at 11:09 AM, Dieter an Mey wrote:> This is really bad news. > In the good old days, we saw information about the MFlop/s rate etc. > in > the jobs statistics. > On the current and even more on the upcoming multicore processors we > need performance information to find out how to optimally load the > nodes. One thread per core (or per hardware thread) is by far not > always > optimal. > Good old days of Sparc/Solaris where the HW counters were so nicely > available ! > > best regards > Dieter > > Terboven, Christian schrieb: >> Hi Makia, hi list. >> >> Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the >> Sun HPC >> software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to >> hear that the >> perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see >> http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You >> caught us by >> surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to >> CentOS w/ Sun >> stack. >> >> We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient >> for a HPC >> software development stack. From a Computing Center point of view, >> the prospect >> of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature built >> in is just >> great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In our >> case, the >> system management group does not like to do that work, for various >> (good) >> reasons. >> >> So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen >> University) are >> asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and >> Samuel (I don''t >> know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure Dieter >> could >> elaborate more on this topic if you like. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> Christian >> -- >> Dipl.-Inform. Christian Terboven - High Performance Computing >> RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication >> Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) >> Phone.: +49 241 80 24375 - Fax: +49 241 80 22504 >> mailto:terboven at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dieter an Mey > High Performance Computing Hochleistungsrechnen > RWTH Aachen University Rechen- und Kommunikations- > Center for Computing and Communication zentrum der RWTH Aachen > phone: ++49-(0)241-80-24377 Seffenter Weg 23 > fax: ++49-(0)241-80-22134 52074 Aachen, Germany > email: anmey at rz.rwth-aachen.de > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list > Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org > http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack-- "A simile is not a lie, unless it is a bad simile." - Christopher John Francis Boone
On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:22 AM, Terboven, Christian wrote:> Hi Makia, hi list. > > Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the > Sun HPC > software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to > hear that the > perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see > http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You > caught us by > surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to > CentOS w/ Sun > stack. > > We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient for > a HPC > software development stack. From a Computing Center point of view, > the prospect > of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature built > in is just > great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In our > case, the > system management group does not like to do that work, for various > (good) > reasons. > > So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen > University) are > asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and Samuel > (I don''t > know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure Dieter > could > elaborate more on this topic if you like.I echo Christian''s comments, and surprise. perfctr, or equivalent hardware information, is a requirement for HPC systems here at ARSC as well. We currently compile it into the kernel ourselves (we''re not on the Sun HPC software stack). If it''s not available in the Sun HPC stack by default, that would be considered a con in evaluating moving to the Sun HPC stack. Regards, -liam -------There are uncountably more irrational fears than rational ones. -P. Dolan Liam Forbes HPC Systems Analyst, HPC&S Group Leader, CISSP ARSC, Univ of AK, Fairbanks lforbes at arsc.edu 907-450-8618 fax: 907-450-8605
> If it''s not available in the Sun HPC stack by default, that > would be considered a con in evaluating moving to the Sun > HPC stack.Absolutely. Again: Having a vendor-supported Linux with Hardware Counter support is of so much more value than additional libraries or SGE integration. A Computing Center can easily add libraries or SGE integration without losing support, but tweaking the kernel is a bad thing to do. Just as a side node: Could you please add the Hardware Counter in a way that is supported by Sun Studio Analyzer :-). Cheers, Christian -- Dipl.-Inform. Christian Terboven - High Performance Computing RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) Phone.: +49 241 80 24375 - Fax: +49 241 80 22504 mailto:terboven at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org [mailto:linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org] Im Auftrag von Liam Forbes Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. November 2008 00:24 An: linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org Betreff: Re: [Linux_hpc_swstack] Hardware Counter Support On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:22 AM, Terboven, Christian wrote:> Hi Makia, hi list. > > Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the > Sun HPC > software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to > hear that the > perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see > http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You > caught us by > surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to > CentOS w/ Sun > stack. > > We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient for > a HPC > software development stack. From a Computing Center point of view, > the prospect > of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature built > in is just > great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In our > case, the > system management group does not like to do that work, for various > (good) > reasons. > > So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen > University) are > asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and Samuel > (I don''t > know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure Dieter > could > elaborate more on this topic if you like.I echo Christian''s comments, and surprise. perfctr, or equivalent hardware information, is a requirement for HPC systems here at ARSC as well. We currently compile it into the kernel ourselves (we''re not on the Sun HPC software stack). If it''s not available in the Sun HPC stack by default, that would be considered a con in evaluating moving to the Sun HPC stack. Regards, -liam -------There are uncountably more irrational fears than rational ones. -P. Dolan Liam Forbes HPC Systems Analyst, HPC&S Group Leader, CISSP ARSC, Univ of AK, Fairbanks lforbes at arsc.edu 907-450-8618 fax: 907-450-8605 _______________________________________________ Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.lustre.org/pipermail/linux_hpc_swstack/attachments/20081118/1fc6efbc/attachment.bin
Actually, dropping perfctr form the list leads us into a conflict. We would go for CentOS 5.1 with perfctr if we would not desparately need CentOS 5.2 for an NFS patch. Dieter Terboven, Christian schrieb:>> If it''s not available in the Sun HPC stack by default, that >> would be considered a con in evaluating moving to the Sun >> HPC stack. > Absolutely. Again: Having a vendor-supported Linux with Hardware Counter support > is of so much more value than additional libraries or SGE integration. A > Computing Center can easily add libraries or SGE integration without losing > support, but tweaking the kernel is a bad thing to do. > > Just as a side node: Could you please add the Hardware Counter in a way that is > supported by Sun Studio Analyzer :-). > > > Cheers, > Christian > -- > Dipl.-Inform. Christian Terboven - High Performance Computing > RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication > Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) > Phone.: +49 241 80 24375 - Fax: +49 241 80 22504 > mailto:terboven at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org > [mailto:linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org] Im Auftrag von Liam Forbes > Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. November 2008 00:24 > An: linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org > Betreff: Re: [Linux_hpc_swstack] Hardware Counter Support > > On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:22 AM, Terboven, Christian wrote: >> Hi Makia, hi list. >> >> Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the >> Sun HPC >> software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to >> hear that the >> perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see >> http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You >> caught us by >> surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to >> CentOS w/ Sun >> stack. >> >> We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient for >> a HPC >> software development stack. From a Computing Center point of view, >> the prospect >> of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature built >> in is just >> great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In our >> case, the >> system management group does not like to do that work, for various >> (good) >> reasons. >> >> So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen >> University) are >> asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and Samuel >> (I don''t >> know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure Dieter >> could >> elaborate more on this topic if you like. > > > I echo Christian''s comments, and surprise. perfctr, or equivalent > hardware information, is a requirement for HPC systems here at ARSC as > well. We currently compile it into the kernel ourselves (we''re not on > the Sun HPC software stack). If it''s not available in the Sun HPC > stack by default, that would be considered a con in evaluating moving > to the Sun HPC stack. > > Regards, > -liam > > -------There are uncountably more irrational fears than rational ones. > -P. Dolan > Liam Forbes HPC Systems Analyst, HPC&S Group > Leader, CISSP > ARSC, Univ of AK, Fairbanks lforbes at arsc.edu 907-450-8618 fax: > 907-450-8605 > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list > Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org > http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list > Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org > http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack-- Dipl.-Math. Dieter an Mey, HPC Team Lead RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication Rechen- und Kommunikationszentrum der RWTH Aachen Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) Phone: + 49 241 80 24377 - Fax/UMS: + 49 241 80 624377 mailto:anmey at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5773 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://lists.lustre.org/pipermail/linux_hpc_swstack/attachments/20081118/52cdc0d0/attachment-0001.bin
We''re continuing to look at how and when we can bring the perfctr patch back into the kernel; so there shouldn''t be a need to be looking at sticking with CentOS 5.1 (or the Sun HPC Software, Linux Edition 1.0) just to have perfctr. On Nov 18, 2008, at 4:38 AM, Dieter an Mey wrote:> Actually, dropping perfctr form the list leads us into a conflict. > We would go for CentOS 5.1 with perfctr if we would not desparately > need CentOS 5.2 for an NFS patch. > > Dieter > > Terboven, Christian schrieb: >>> If it''s not available in the Sun HPC stack by default, that >>> would be considered a con in evaluating moving to the Sun >>> HPC stack. >> Absolutely. Again: Having a vendor-supported Linux with Hardware >> Counter support >> is of so much more value than additional libraries or SGE >> integration. A >> Computing Center can easily add libraries or SGE integration >> without losing >> support, but tweaking the kernel is a bad thing to do. >> Just as a side node: Could you please add the Hardware Counter in a >> way that is >> supported by Sun Studio Analyzer :-). >> Cheers, >> Christian >> -- >> Dipl.-Inform. Christian Terboven - High Performance Computing >> RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication >> Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) >> Phone.: +49 241 80 24375 - Fax: +49 241 80 22504 >> mailto:terboven at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org >> [mailto:linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org] Im Auftrag von >> Liam Forbes >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. November 2008 00:24 >> An: linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >> Betreff: Re: [Linux_hpc_swstack] Hardware Counter Support >> On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:22 AM, Terboven, Christian wrote: >>> Hi Makia, hi list. >>> >>> Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the >>> Sun HPC >>> software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to >>> hear that the >>> perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see >>> http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You >>> caught us by >>> surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to >>> CentOS w/ Sun >>> stack. >>> >>> We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient >>> for a HPC >>> software development stack. From a Computing Center point of >>> view, the prospect >>> of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature >>> built in is just >>> great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In >>> our case, the >>> system management group does not like to do that work, for >>> various (good) >>> reasons. >>> >>> So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen >>> University) are >>> asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and >>> Samuel (I don''t >>> know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure >>> Dieter could >>> elaborate more on this topic if you like. >> I echo Christian''s comments, and surprise. perfctr, or equivalent >> hardware information, is a requirement for HPC systems here at ARSC >> as well. We currently compile it into the kernel ourselves (we''re >> not on the Sun HPC software stack). If it''s not available in the >> Sun HPC stack by default, that would be considered a con in >> evaluating moving to the Sun HPC stack. >> Regards, >> -liam >> -------There are uncountably more irrational fears than rational >> ones. -P. Dolan >> Liam Forbes HPC Systems Analyst, HPC&S Group >> Leader, CISSP >> ARSC, Univ of AK, Fairbanks lforbes at arsc.edu 907-450-8618 >> fax: 907-450-8605 >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list >> Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >> http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list >> Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >> http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack > > -- > Dipl.-Math. Dieter an Mey, HPC Team Lead > RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication > Rechen- und Kommunikationszentrum der RWTH Aachen > Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) > Phone: + 49 241 80 24377 - Fax/UMS: + 49 241 80 624377 > mailto:anmey at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de > > _______________________________________________ > Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list > Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org > http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack-- "A simile is not a lie, unless it is a bad simile." - Christopher John Francis Boone
We''ll have to do some testing with Sun Studio Analyzer and see what is or is not missing. I''m not entirely sure what the status of their interaction is (as I''ve not been a user of Analyzer), but we can see if we can try it out. On Nov 17, 2008, at 6:32 PM, Terboven, Christian wrote:>> If it''s not available in the Sun HPC stack by default, that >> would be considered a con in evaluating moving to the Sun >> HPC stack. > Absolutely. Again: Having a vendor-supported Linux with Hardware > Counter support > is of so much more value than additional libraries or SGE > integration. A > Computing Center can easily add libraries or SGE integration without > losing > support, but tweaking the kernel is a bad thing to do. > > Just as a side node: Could you please add the Hardware Counter in a > way that is > supported by Sun Studio Analyzer :-). > > > Cheers, > Christian > -- > Dipl.-Inform. Christian Terboven - High Performance Computing > RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication > Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) > Phone.: +49 241 80 24375 - Fax: +49 241 80 22504 > mailto:terboven at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org > [mailto:linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org] Im Auftrag von > Liam Forbes > Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. November 2008 00:24 > An: linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org > Betreff: Re: [Linux_hpc_swstack] Hardware Counter Support > > On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:22 AM, Terboven, Christian wrote: >> Hi Makia, hi list. >> >> Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the >> Sun HPC >> software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to >> hear that the >> perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see >> http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You >> caught us by >> surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to >> CentOS w/ Sun >> stack. >> >> We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient for >> a HPC >> software development stack. From a Computing Center point of view, >> the prospect >> of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature built >> in is just >> great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In our >> case, the >> system management group does not like to do that work, for various >> (good) >> reasons. >> >> So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen >> University) are >> asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and Samuel >> (I don''t >> know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure Dieter >> could >> elaborate more on this topic if you like. > > > I echo Christian''s comments, and surprise. perfctr, or equivalent > hardware information, is a requirement for HPC systems here at ARSC as > well. We currently compile it into the kernel ourselves (we''re not on > the Sun HPC software stack). If it''s not available in the Sun HPC > stack by default, that would be considered a con in evaluating moving > to the Sun HPC stack. > > Regards, > -liam > > -------There are uncountably more irrational fears than rational ones. > -P. Dolan > Liam Forbes HPC Systems Analyst, HPC&S Group > Leader, CISSP > ARSC, Univ of AK, Fairbanks lforbes at arsc.edu 907-450-8618 fax: > 907-450-8605 > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list > Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org > http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack > _______________________________________________ > Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list > Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org > http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack-- "A simile is not a lie, unless it is a bad simile." - Christopher John Francis Boone
I just wanted to give everyone an update to this request. With our next release, we''re going to be adding an "Extras" portion to our repository, and this is where we currently plan on placing a perfctr patched version of the linux kernel. We''ll have more information (and timeline) as the days move forward toward the next release, but I just wanted to make sure people know that we''re planning on making this available again. On Nov 19, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Makia Minich wrote:> We''re continuing to look at how and when we can bring the perfctr > patch back into the kernel; so there shouldn''t be a need to be looking > at sticking with CentOS 5.1 (or the Sun HPC Software, Linux Edition > 1.0) just to have perfctr. > > On Nov 18, 2008, at 4:38 AM, Dieter an Mey wrote: > >> Actually, dropping perfctr form the list leads us into a conflict. >> We would go for CentOS 5.1 with perfctr if we would not desparately >> need CentOS 5.2 for an NFS patch. >> >> Dieter >> >> Terboven, Christian schrieb: >>>> If it''s not available in the Sun HPC stack by default, that >>>> would be considered a con in evaluating moving to the Sun >>>> HPC stack. >>> Absolutely. Again: Having a vendor-supported Linux with Hardware >>> Counter support >>> is of so much more value than additional libraries or SGE >>> integration. A >>> Computing Center can easily add libraries or SGE integration >>> without losing >>> support, but tweaking the kernel is a bad thing to do. >>> Just as a side node: Could you please add the Hardware Counter in a >>> way that is >>> supported by Sun Studio Analyzer :-). >>> Cheers, >>> Christian >>> -- >>> Dipl.-Inform. Christian Terboven - High Performance Computing >>> RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication >>> Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) >>> Phone.: +49 241 80 24375 - Fax: +49 241 80 22504 >>> mailto:terboven at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org >>> [mailto:linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org] Im Auftrag von >>> Liam Forbes >>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. November 2008 00:24 >>> An: linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >>> Betreff: Re: [Linux_hpc_swstack] Hardware Counter Support >>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:22 AM, Terboven, Christian wrote: >>>> Hi Makia, hi list. >>>> >>>> Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the >>>> Sun HPC >>>> software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to >>>> hear that the >>>> perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see >>>> http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You >>>> caught us by >>>> surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to >>>> CentOS w/ Sun >>>> stack. >>>> >>>> We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient >>>> for a HPC >>>> software development stack. From a Computing Center point of >>>> view, the prospect >>>> of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature >>>> built in is just >>>> great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In >>>> our case, the >>>> system management group does not like to do that work, for >>>> various (good) >>>> reasons. >>>> >>>> So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen >>>> University) are >>>> asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and >>>> Samuel (I don''t >>>> know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure >>>> Dieter could >>>> elaborate more on this topic if you like. >>> I echo Christian''s comments, and surprise. perfctr, or equivalent >>> hardware information, is a requirement for HPC systems here at ARSC >>> as well. We currently compile it into the kernel ourselves (we''re >>> not on the Sun HPC software stack). If it''s not available in the >>> Sun HPC stack by default, that would be considered a con in >>> evaluating moving to the Sun HPC stack. >>> Regards, >>> -liam >>> -------There are uncountably more irrational fears than rational >>> ones. -P. Dolan >>> Liam Forbes HPC Systems Analyst, HPC&S Group >>> Leader, CISSP >>> ARSC, Univ of AK, Fairbanks lforbes at arsc.edu 907-450-8618 >>> fax: 907-450-8605 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list >>> Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >>> http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list >>> Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >>> http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack >> >> -- >> Dipl.-Math. Dieter an Mey, HPC Team Lead >> RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication >> Rechen- und Kommunikationszentrum der RWTH Aachen >> Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) >> Phone: + 49 241 80 24377 - Fax/UMS: + 49 241 80 624377 >> mailto:anmey at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list >> Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >> http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack > > -- > "A simile is not a lie, unless it is a bad simile." > - Christopher John Francis Boone > > _______________________________________________ > Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list > Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org > http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack-- "A simile is not a lie, unless it is a bad simile." - Christopher John Francis Boone
Good news! Thanks! Dieter Makia Minich schrieb:> I just wanted to give everyone an update to this request. With our next > release, we''re going to be adding an "Extras" portion to our repository, > and this is where we currently plan on placing a perfctr patched version > of the linux kernel. We''ll have more information (and timeline) as the > days move forward toward the next release, but I just wanted to make > sure people know that we''re planning on making this available again. > > On Nov 19, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Makia Minich wrote: > >> We''re continuing to look at how and when we can bring the perfctr >> patch back into the kernel; so there shouldn''t be a need to be looking >> at sticking with CentOS 5.1 (or the Sun HPC Software, Linux Edition >> 1.0) just to have perfctr. >> >> On Nov 18, 2008, at 4:38 AM, Dieter an Mey wrote: >> >>> Actually, dropping perfctr form the list leads us into a conflict. >>> We would go for CentOS 5.1 with perfctr if we would not desparately >>> need CentOS 5.2 for an NFS patch. >>> >>> Dieter >>> >>> Terboven, Christian schrieb: >>>>> If it''s not available in the Sun HPC stack by default, that >>>>> would be considered a con in evaluating moving to the Sun >>>>> HPC stack. >>>> Absolutely. Again: Having a vendor-supported Linux with Hardware >>>> Counter support >>>> is of so much more value than additional libraries or SGE >>>> integration. A >>>> Computing Center can easily add libraries or SGE integration >>>> without losing >>>> support, but tweaking the kernel is a bad thing to do. >>>> Just as a side node: Could you please add the Hardware Counter in a >>>> way that is >>>> supported by Sun Studio Analyzer :-). >>>> Cheers, >>>> Christian >>>> -- >>>> Dipl.-Inform. Christian Terboven - High Performance Computing >>>> RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication >>>> Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) >>>> Phone.: +49 241 80 24375 - Fax: +49 241 80 22504 >>>> mailto:terboven at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de >>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org >>>> [mailto:linux_hpc_swstack-bounces at lists.lustre.org] Im Auftrag von >>>> Liam Forbes >>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. November 2008 00:24 >>>> An: linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >>>> Betreff: Re: [Linux_hpc_swstack] Hardware Counter Support >>>> On Nov 16, 2008, at 6:22 AM, Terboven, Christian wrote: >>>>> Hi Makia, hi list. >>>>> >>>>> Yesterday we briefly talked about Hardware Counter Support in the >>>>> Sun HPC >>>>> software stack for Linux and I was very surprised (negatively) to >>>>> hear that the >>>>> perfctr feature has been dropped for version 1.1 (see >>>>> http://www.sun.com/software/products/hpcsoftware/specs.xml). You >>>>> caught us by >>>>> surprise with this move, as we just started to move from SL to >>>>> CentOS w/ Sun >>>>> stack. >>>>> >>>>> We think that Hardware Counter profiling is a crucial ingredient >>>>> for a HPC >>>>> software development stack. From a Computing Center point of >>>>> view, the prospect >>>>> of getting a vendor-supported distribution with this feature >>>>> built in is just >>>>> great, as maintaining a patched kernel can be a lot of work. In >>>>> our case, the >>>>> system management group does not like to do that work, for >>>>> various (good) >>>>> reasons. >>>>> >>>>> So if you are just in need for feedback: We (= RWTH Aachen >>>>> University) are >>>>> asking for that feature. I am cc-ing my colleagues Dieter and >>>>> Samuel (I don''t >>>>> know whether they are subscribed to this list) and I am sure >>>>> Dieter could >>>>> elaborate more on this topic if you like. >>>> I echo Christian''s comments, and surprise. perfctr, or equivalent >>>> hardware information, is a requirement for HPC systems here at ARSC >>>> as well. We currently compile it into the kernel ourselves (we''re >>>> not on the Sun HPC software stack). If it''s not available in the >>>> Sun HPC stack by default, that would be considered a con in >>>> evaluating moving to the Sun HPC stack. >>>> Regards, >>>> -liam >>>> -------There are uncountably more irrational fears than rational >>>> ones. -P. Dolan >>>> Liam Forbes HPC Systems Analyst, HPC&S Group >>>> Leader, CISSP >>>> ARSC, Univ of AK, Fairbanks lforbes at arsc.edu 907-450-8618 >>>> fax: 907-450-8605 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list >>>> Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >>>> http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list >>>> Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >>>> http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack >>> >>> -- >>> Dipl.-Math. Dieter an Mey, HPC Team Lead >>> RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication >>> Rechen- und Kommunikationszentrum der RWTH Aachen >>> Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) >>> Phone: + 49 241 80 24377 - Fax/UMS: + 49 241 80 624377 >>> mailto:anmey at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list >>> Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >>> http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack >> >> -- >> "A simile is not a lie, unless it is a bad simile." >> - Christopher John Francis Boone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux_hpc_swstack mailing list >> Linux_hpc_swstack at lists.lustre.org >> http://lists.lustre.org/mailman/listinfo/linux_hpc_swstack > > -- > "A simile is not a lie, unless it is a bad simile." > - Christopher John Francis Boone >-- Dipl.-Math. Dieter an Mey, HPC Team Lead RWTH Aachen University, Center for Computing and Communication Rechen- und Kommunikationszentrum der RWTH Aachen Seffenter Weg 23, D 52074 Aachen (Germany) Phone: + 49 241 80 24377 - Fax/UMS: + 49 241 80 624377 mailto:anmey at rz.rwth-aachen.de http://www.rz.rwth-aachen.de -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 5773 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://lists.lustre.org/pipermail/linux_hpc_swstack/attachments/20081216/d111d1af/attachment-0001.bin