Linux Virtualization - Jul 2017 - [PATCH v12 5/8] virtio-balloon: VIRTIO_BALLOON_F_SG

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 05:59:17AM +0000, Wang, Wei W
wrote:
> On Sunday, July 30, 2017 12:23 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 08:47:08PM +0800, Wei Wang wrote:
> > > On 07/29/2017 07:08 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 10:50:11AM +0800, Wei Wang wrote:
> > > > > > > > OK I thought this over. While we might
need these new APIs
> > > > > > > > in the future, I think that at the
moment, there's a way to
> > > > > > > > implement this feature that is
significantly simpler. Just
> > > > > > > > add each s/g as a separate input buffer.
> > > > > > > Should it be an output buffer?
> > > > > > Hypervisor overwrites these pages with zeroes.
Therefore it is
> > > > > > writeable by device: DMA_FROM_DEVICE.
> > > > > Why would the hypervisor need to zero the buffer?
> > > > The page is supplied to hypervisor and can lose the value
that is
> > > > there.  That is the definition of writeable by device.
> > >
> > > I think for the free pages, it should be clear that they will be
added
> > > as output buffer to the device, because (as we discussed) they
are
> > > just hints, and some of them may be used by the guest after the
report_ API is
> > invoked.
> > > The device/hypervisor should not use or discard them.
> > 
> > Discarding contents is exactly what you propose doing if migration is
going on,
> > isn't it?
> 
> That's actually a different concept. Please let me explain it with this
example:
> 
> The hypervisor receives the hint saying the guest PageX is a free page, but
as we know,
> after that report_ API exits, the guest kernel may take PageX to use, so
PageX is not free
> page any more. At this time, if the hypervisor writes to the page, that
would crash the guest.
> So, I think the cornerstone of this work is that the hypervisor should not
touch the
> reported pages.
> 
> Best,
> Wei    
That's a hypervisor implementation detail. From guest point of view,
discarding contents can not be distinguished from writing old contents.

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 07:18:33PM +0300, Michael S. Tsirkin
wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 05:59:17AM +0000, Wang, Wei W wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 30, 2017 12:23 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 08:47:08PM +0800, Wei Wang wrote:
> > > > On 07/29/2017 07:08 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 10:50:11AM +0800, Wei Wang
wrote:
> > > > > > > > > OK I thought this over. While we
might need these new APIs
> > > > > > > > > in the future, I think that at the
moment, there's a way to
> > > > > > > > > implement this feature that is
significantly simpler. Just
> > > > > > > > > add each s/g as a separate input
buffer.
> > > > > > > > Should it be an output buffer?
> > > > > > > Hypervisor overwrites these pages with
zeroes. Therefore it is
> > > > > > > writeable by device: DMA_FROM_DEVICE.
> > > > > > Why would the hypervisor need to zero the buffer?
> > > > > The page is supplied to hypervisor and can lose the
value that is
> > > > > there.  That is the definition of writeable by device.
> > > >
> > > > I think for the free pages, it should be clear that they
will be added
> > > > as output buffer to the device, because (as we discussed)
they are
> > > > just hints, and some of them may be used by the guest after
the report_ API is
> > > invoked.
> > > > The device/hypervisor should not use or discard them.
> > > 
> > > Discarding contents is exactly what you propose doing if
migration is going on,
> > > isn't it?
> > 
> > That's actually a different concept. Please let me explain it with
this example:
> > 
> > The hypervisor receives the hint saying the guest PageX is a free
page, but as we know,
> > after that report_ API exits, the guest kernel may take PageX to use,
so PageX is not free
> > page any more. At this time, if the hypervisor writes to the page,
that would crash the guest.
> > So, I think the cornerstone of this work is that the hypervisor should
not touch the
> > reported pages.
> > 
> > Best,
> > Wei    
> 
> That's a hypervisor implementation detail. From guest point of view,
> discarding contents can not be distinguished from writing old contents.
> 
Besides, ignoring the free page tricks, consider regular ballooning.
We map page with DONTNEED then back with WILLNEED. Result is
getting a zero page. So at least one of deflate/inflate should be input.
I'd say both for symmetry.

-- 
MST

On 07/31/2017 12:20 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 07:18:33PM +0300, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 05:59:17AM +0000, Wang, Wei W wrote:
>> That's a hypervisor implementation detail. From guest point of
view,
>> discarding contents can not be distinguished from writing old contents.
>>
> Besides, ignoring the free page tricks, consider regular ballooning.
> We map page with DONTNEED then back with WILLNEED. Result is
> getting a zero page. So at least one of deflate/inflate should be input.
> I'd say both for symmetry.
>
OK, I see the point. Thanks.

Best,
Wei