Icecast - May 2017 - Frauenhofer signing off on mp3, ogg stream player for Macs?

Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits has stopped providing 
licenses for MP3 technology, "[...] noting that more superior audio 
formats have rendered the MP3 obsolete. Speaking to National Public 
Radio (USA), the Fraunhofer Institute said AAC has since become the 'de 
facto standard for music download and videos on mobile phones.' "

http://www.networkworld.com/article/3196788/consumer-electronics/mp3-player-ipod-licensing-dead.html

This raises a point I wanted to ask about. Icecast supports mp3 (it's 
the current lowest-common denominator for media players, yes?) and ogg. 
I'd like to send a higher-fidelity stream from our music festival 
remotes, but ogg isn't an option because the station's media player, 
iTunes (running on a Mac) doesn't support ogg.

Is there any work being done to support AAC in Icecast? Oh, wait. Use of 
AAC in an encoder requires paying a licensing fee. Drat.

So we have mp3 (free, sounds crummy, everything plays it) and ogg (free, 
sounds better, but does anyone know of any programs for Macs that can 
play an ogg stream?)

-- 
That Jack Elliott
(541) 848 7021
KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio
Producer, The Wednesday Point
Host, The Sunday Classics

You can send AAC-HE from a streaming client (LadioCast on Mac for 
example) to an Icecast server and it'll broadcast an AAC stream. If you 
have an AutoDJ system with the appropriate capability (eg Centova) then 
you can set that up for AAC-HE too in the mount point config.*

(*Well, we can - we're running Icecast 2.4.0-kh4 here.)

--R

On 15-May-17 22:46, Jack Elliott wrote:
> Is there any work being done to support AAC in Icecast? Oh, wait. Use 
> of AAC in an encoder requires paying a licensing fee. Drat.

Jack,

I am using AAC+ encoded by Darkice and distributed on Icecast2 on a 
Ubuntu server. I had to install a number of open source libraries and 
compile darkice from source. No licence.

non-free means you build each one stand alone and can't re distribute.

Quality is excellent, and it runs on most players.

I kept some notes [see below]

I am using AAC+ to feed a couple of LPFM sites with almost zero errors 
over what had been troublesome paths for mp3

HE-AAC audio v2 (with SBR + PS) is the superb audio encoder used to 
encode high quality audio at really low bitrates (32 kbit/s). Quote from 
Wikipedia "Data from this testing also indicated that some individuals 
confused 48 kbit/s encoded material with an uncompressed original."

In order to quickly compile your ?libaacplus library, you can type the 
following commands in your shell:

# apt-get install libfftw3-dev pkg-config autoconf automake libtool unzip
$ wget 
http://tipok.org.ua/downloads/media/aacplus/libaacplus/libaacplus-2.0.2.tar.gz
$ tar -xzf libaacplus-2.0.2.tar.gz
$ cd libaacplus-2.0.2
$ ./autogen.sh --enable-shared --enable-static
$ make
# make install
# ldconfig

P.S. If you are using Ubuntu, you'll most probably have to use sudo for 
the last 2 commands, like:

$ sudo make install
$ sudo ldconfig

In case that website above (hosting libaacplus) goes offline, you can 
download the copy of that tar.gz file from here: (MD5: 
3fc15d5aa91d0e8b8f94acb6555103da)

$ wget http://ffmpeg.gusari.org/uploads/libaacplus-2.0.2.tar.gz

More info at: ?http://tipok.org.ua/node/17

NOTE: libaacplus is a non-free library, so you won't be able to build 
GPL alike FFmpeg with this library, i.e. your FFmpeg will not be 
redistributable.



regards


Robert Jeffares


On 16/05/17 09:46, Jack Elliott wrote:
> Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits has stopped providing 
> licenses for MP3 technology, "[...] noting that more superior audio 
> formats have rendered the MP3 obsolete. Speaking to National Public 
> Radio (USA), the Fraunhofer Institute said AAC has since become the 
> 'de facto standard for music download and videos on mobile phones.'
"
>
>
http://www.networkworld.com/article/3196788/consumer-electronics/mp3-player-ipod-licensing-dead.html
>
>
> This raises a point I wanted to ask about. Icecast supports mp3 (it's 
> the current lowest-common denominator for media players, yes?) and 
> ogg. I'd like to send a higher-fidelity stream from our music festival 
> remotes, but ogg isn't an option because the station's media
player,
> iTunes (running on a Mac) doesn't support ogg.
>
> Is there any work being done to support AAC in Icecast? Oh, wait. Use 
> of AAC in an encoder requires paying a licensing fee. Drat.
>
> So we have mp3 (free, sounds crummy, everything plays it) and ogg 
> (free, sounds better, but does anyone know of any programs for Macs 
> that can play an ogg stream?)
>

Hi Robert . . . so you're saying that you're feeding Icecast2 an AAC 
stream and it's not complaining?

-- 
That Jack Elliott
(541) 848 7021
KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio
Producer, The Wednesday Point
Host, The Sunday Classics

On 5/15/2017 3:25 PM, Robert Jeffares wrote:
> Jack,
>
> I am using AAC+ encoded by Darkice and distributed on Icecast2 on a 
> Ubuntu server. I had to install a number of open source libraries and 
> compile darkice from source. No licence.
>
> non-free means you build each one stand alone and can't re distribute.
>
> Quality is excellent, and it runs on most players.
>
> I kept some notes [see below]
>
> I am using AAC+ to feed a couple of LPFM sites with almost zero errors 
> over what had been troublesome paths for mp3
>
> HE-AAC audio v2 (with SBR + PS) is the superb audio encoder used to 
> encode high quality audio at really low bitrates (32 kbit/s). Quote 
> from Wikipedia "Data from this testing also indicated that some 
> individuals confused 48 kbit/s encoded material with an uncompressed 
> original."
>
> In order to quickly compile your ​libaacplus library, you can type the 
> following commands in your shell:
>
> # apt-get install libfftw3-dev pkg-config autoconf automake libtool unzip
> $ wget 
>
http://tipok.org.ua/downloads/media/aacplus/libaacplus/libaacplus-2.0.2.tar.gz
> $ tar -xzf libaacplus-2.0.2.tar.gz
> $ cd libaacplus-2.0.2
> $ ./autogen.sh --enable-shared --enable-static
> $ make
> # make install
> # ldconfig
>
> P.S. If you are using Ubuntu, you'll most probably have to use sudo 
> for the last 2 commands, like:
>
> $ sudo make install
> $ sudo ldconfig
>
> In case that website above (hosting libaacplus) goes offline, you can 
> download the copy of that tar.gz file from here: (MD5: 
> 3fc15d5aa91d0e8b8f94acb6555103da)
>
> $ wget http://ffmpeg.gusari.org/uploads/libaacplus-2.0.2.tar.gz
>
> More info at: ​http://tipok.org.ua/node/17
>
> NOTE: libaacplus is a non-free library, so you won't be able to build 
> GPL alike FFmpeg with this library, i.e. your FFmpeg will not be 
> redistributable.
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
> Robert Jeffares
>
>
> On 16/05/17 09:46, Jack Elliott wrote:
>> Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits has stopped providing 
>> licenses for MP3 technology, "[...] noting that more superior
audio
>> formats have rendered the MP3 obsolete. Speaking to National Public 
>> Radio (USA), the Fraunhofer Institute said AAC has since become the 
>> 'de facto standard for music download and videos on mobile
phones.' "
>>
>>
http://www.networkworld.com/article/3196788/consumer-electronics/mp3-player-ipod-licensing-dead.html
>>
>>
>> This raises a point I wanted to ask about. Icecast supports mp3
(it's
>> the current lowest-common denominator for media players, yes?) and 
>> ogg. I'd like to send a higher-fidelity stream from our music 
>> festival remotes, but ogg isn't an option because the station's
media
>> player, iTunes (running on a Mac) doesn't support ogg.
>>
>> Is there any work being done to support AAC in Icecast? Oh, wait. Use 
>> of AAC in an encoder requires paying a licensing fee. Drat.
>>
>> So we have mp3 (free, sounds crummy, everything plays it) and ogg 
>> (free, sounds better, but does anyone know of any programs for Macs 
>> that can play an ogg stream?)
>>
>

If Icecast2 works fine with AAC, shouldn't that be mentioned in the 
documentation?

-- 
That Jack Elliott
(541) 848 7021
KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio
Producer, The Wednesday Point
Host, The Sunday Classics

On 5/15/2017 3:13 PM, Richard G Elen wrote:
> You can send AAC-HE from a streaming client (LadioCast on Mac for 
> example) to an Icecast server and it'll broadcast an AAC stream. If 
> you have an AutoDJ system with the appropriate capability (eg Centova) 
> then you can set that up for AAC-HE too in the mount point config.*
>
> (*Well, we can - we're running Icecast 2.4.0-kh4 here.)
>
> --R
>
> On 15-May-17 22:46, Jack Elliott wrote:
>> Is there any work being done to support AAC in Icecast? Oh, wait. Use 
>> of AAC in an encoder requires paying a licensing fee. Drat.
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast

Rather off topic, but I wonder if this means MP3 encoding is now licence free
and encoders can be included in commercial software with no licence.

-----Original Message-----
From: Icecast [mailto:icecast-bounces at xiph.org] On Behalf Of Jack Elliott
Sent: Tuesday, 16 May 2017 9:46 a.m.
To: Icecast streaming server user discussions
Subject: [Icecast] Frauenhofer signing off on mp3, ogg stream player for Macs?

Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits has stopped providing licenses for
MP3 technology, "[...] noting that more superior audio formats have
rendered the MP3 obsolete. Speaking to National Public Radio (USA), the
Fraunhofer Institute said AAC has since become the 'de facto standard for
music download and videos on mobile phones.' "

http://www.networkworld.com/article/3196788/consumer-electronics/mp3-player-ipod-licensing-dead.html

This raises a point I wanted to ask about. Icecast supports mp3 (it's the
current lowest-common denominator for media players, yes?) and ogg.
I'd like to send a higher-fidelity stream from our music festival remotes,
but ogg isn't an option because the station's media player, iTunes
(running on a Mac) doesn't support ogg.

Is there any work being done to support AAC in Icecast? Oh, wait. Use of AAC in
an encoder requires paying a licensing fee. Drat.

So we have mp3 (free, sounds crummy, everything plays it) and ogg (free, sounds
better, but does anyone know of any programs for Macs that can play an ogg
stream?)

--
That Jack Elliott
(541) 848 7021
KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio Producer, The Wednesday Point Host, The
Sunday Classics

_______________________________________________
Icecast mailing list
Icecast at xiph.org
http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast

First: I am not a lawyer, this is no legal advice!

On 16 May 2017, at 0:25, Robert Jeffares wrote:
> Jack,
>
> I am using AAC+ encoded by Darkice and distributed on Icecast2 on a 
> Ubuntu server. I had to install a number of open source libraries and 
> compile darkice from source. No licence.
This sounds like it would violate the license, given that the FAQ on 
http://www.via-corp.com/us/en/licensing/aac/faq.html states:
> An AAC patent license is needed by manufacturers or developers of 
> end-user encoder and/or decoder products.
Additionally on the authors website for libaacplus it clearly says:
> These tarballs don't provide any 3GPP source code. It is downloaded 
> from 3GPP during compilation. To use package compiled by this code, 
> you may need a license from 3GPP.
>
> AAC+ codecs incorporate several patents, held by Philips, Dolby, 
> Ericsson and Nokia. Companies holding patents for HE AAC v1 (SBR) have 
> formed a patent pool under Via Licensing to provide a single point of 
> license for product makers. Patents owned by Dolby and Philips 
> covering the Parametric Stereo used in HE AAC v2 (SBR+PS) are not 
> included in the Via Licensing pool and are licensed separately by 
> Dolby. Depending on law in your country, manufacturers and developers 
> may need to get a license. Because it is a shared library, you may 
> need special contract for each one application, which links against 
> this library, directly or indirectly.
>
> Please also note, that downloaded .doc file has a very restrictive 
> license: No part may be reproduced except as authorized by written 
> permission. The copyright and the foregoing restriction extend to 
> reproduction in all media.
This is certainly not something I would like to see recommended to be 
used, on this mailing list.

Encoding not being part of Icecast, I reckon this is indeed off-topic; 
but to close the thread, it does seem to be the case that mp3 encoding 
is now license free.

"MP3 is supported by everything, everywhere, and is now patent-free. 
There has never been another audio format as widely supported as MP3, 
it's good enough for almost anything, and now, over twenty years since 
it took the world by storm, it's finally free."

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1314221/mp3-is-not-dead-its-finally-free

-- 
That Jack Elliott
(541) 848 7021
KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio
Producer, The Wednesday Point
Host, The Sunday Classics

On 5/15/2017 9:26 PM, Ross Levis wrote:
> Rather off topic, but I wonder if this means MP3 encoding is now licence
free and encoders can be included in commercial software with no licence.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Icecast [mailto:icecast-bounces at xiph.org] On Behalf Of Jack
Elliott
> Sent: Tuesday, 16 May 2017 9:46 a.m.
> To: Icecast streaming server user discussions
> Subject: [Icecast] Frauenhofer signing off on mp3, ogg stream player for
Macs?
>
> Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits has stopped providing licenses
for MP3 technology, "[...] noting that more superior audio formats have
rendered the MP3 obsolete. Speaking to National Public Radio (USA), the
Fraunhofer Institute said AAC has since become the 'de facto standard for
music download and videos on mobile phones.' "
>
>
http://www.networkworld.com/article/3196788/consumer-electronics/mp3-player-ipod-licensing-dead.html
>
> This raises a point I wanted to ask about. Icecast supports mp3 (it's
the current lowest-common denominator for media players, yes?) and ogg.
> I'd like to send a higher-fidelity stream from our music festival
remotes, but ogg isn't an option because the station's media player,
iTunes (running on a Mac) doesn't support ogg.
>
> Is there any work being done to support AAC in Icecast? Oh, wait. Use of
AAC in an encoder requires paying a licensing fee. Drat.
>
> So we have mp3 (free, sounds crummy, everything plays it) and ogg (free,
sounds better, but does anyone know of any programs for Macs that can play an
ogg stream?)
>
> --
> That Jack Elliott
> (541) 848 7021
> KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio Producer, The Wednesday Point
Host, The Sunday Classics
>
> _______________________________________________
> Icecast mailing list
> Icecast at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast
>
>

Is there a way to run Darkice without an audio interface?

On Tue, 16 May 2017 10:25:43 +1200, you wrote:
>Jack,
>
>I am using AAC+ encoded by Darkice and distributed on Icecast2 on a 
>Ubuntu server. I had to install a number of open source libraries and 
>compile darkice from source. No licence.
>
>non-free means you build each one stand alone and can't re distribute.
>
>Quality is excellent, and it runs on most players.
>
>I kept some notes [see below]
>
>I am using AAC+ to feed a couple of LPFM sites with almost zero errors 
>over what had been troublesome paths for mp3
>
>HE-AAC audio v2 (with SBR + PS) is the superb audio encoder used to 
>encode high quality audio at really low bitrates (32 kbit/s). Quote from 
>Wikipedia "Data from this testing also indicated that some individuals 
>confused 48 kbit/s encoded material with an uncompressed original."
>
>In order to quickly compile your ?libaacplus library, you can type the 
>following commands in your shell:
>
># apt-get install libfftw3-dev pkg-config autoconf automake libtool unzip
>$ wget 
>http://tipok.org.ua/downloads/media/aacplus/libaacplus/libaacplus-2.0.2.tar.gz
>$ tar -xzf libaacplus-2.0.2.tar.gz
>$ cd libaacplus-2.0.2
>$ ./autogen.sh --enable-shared --enable-static
>$ make
># make install
># ldconfig
>
>P.S. If you are using Ubuntu, you'll most probably have to use sudo for 
>the last 2 commands, like:
>
>$ sudo make install
>$ sudo ldconfig
>
>In case that website above (hosting libaacplus) goes offline, you can 
>download the copy of that tar.gz file from here: (MD5: 
>3fc15d5aa91d0e8b8f94acb6555103da)
>
>$ wget http://ffmpeg.gusari.org/uploads/libaacplus-2.0.2.tar.gz
>
>More info at: ?http://tipok.org.ua/node/17
>
>NOTE: libaacplus is a non-free library, so you won't be able to build 
>GPL alike FFmpeg with this library, i.e. your FFmpeg will not be 
>redistributable.
>
>
>
>regards
>
>
>Robert Jeffares
>
>
>On 16/05/17 09:46, Jack Elliott wrote:
>> Fraunhofer Institute for Integrated Circuits has stopped providing 
>> licenses for MP3 technology, "[...] noting that more superior
audio
>> formats have rendered the MP3 obsolete. Speaking to National Public 
>> Radio (USA), the Fraunhofer Institute said AAC has since become the 
>> 'de facto standard for music download and videos on mobile
phones.' "
>>
>>
http://www.networkworld.com/article/3196788/consumer-electronics/mp3-player-ipod-licensing-dead.html
>>
>>
>> This raises a point I wanted to ask about. Icecast supports mp3
(it's
>> the current lowest-common denominator for media players, yes?) and 
>> ogg. I'd like to send a higher-fidelity stream from our music
festival
>> remotes, but ogg isn't an option because the station's media
player,
>> iTunes (running on a Mac) doesn't support ogg.
>>
>> Is there any work being done to support AAC in Icecast? Oh, wait. Use 
>> of AAC in an encoder requires paying a licensing fee. Drat.
>>
>> So we have mp3 (free, sounds crummy, everything plays it) and ogg 
>> (free, sounds better, but does anyone know of any programs for Macs 
>> that can play an ogg stream?)
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Icecast mailing list
>Icecast at xiph.org
>http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/icecast