Can anyone explain what the fundamental difference between the Burst-on-Connect mode that Icecast2 uses versus SHOUTcast? There is a thread starting on the VLC Player list that is stating that the problems that VLC has playing Icecast2 Burst-on-Connect (default) streams is the fault of Icecast2. I don't believe this is true, as Winamp has no problem with Icecast2 streams. I'm hoping to get an explanation so that I can tell them what needs to be addressed in the VLC Player. Thanks. -greg. ________________________________________ Greg J. Ogonowski VP Product Development ORBAN/CRL, Inc. 1525 Alvarado St. San Leandro, CA 94577 USA TEL +1 510 351-3500 FAX +1 510 351-0500 Web: http://www.orban.com E-Mail: greg@orban.com
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:25:24 -0800, Greg J. Ogonowski <greg@orban.com> wrote:> Can anyone explain what the fundamental difference between the > Burst-on-Connect mode that Icecast2 uses versus SHOUTcast? > > There is a thread starting on the VLC Player list that is stating that the > problems that VLC has playing Icecast2 Burst-on-Connect (default) streams > is the fault of Icecast2. I don't believe this is true, as Winamp has no > problem with Icecast2 streams. I'm hoping to get an explanation so that I > can tell them what needs to be addressed in the VLC Player.The whole point of burst-on-connect is "spray as much data at the client on initial connect as you possibly can" (well, limited to your buffer size). It's not conceptually complex or subtle - so it doesn't seem likely that it's different in any really significant ways (but I haven't done network traces on shoutcast streams to check). The only thing I can think of that's almost certainly different is the default size of the initial buffer (that's configurable in icecast, and it might be configurable in shoutcast, but the defaults probably differ). The HTTP headers differ in various ways too, but that shouldn't be significant. There's one thing that icecast doesn't do (except for ogg streams) that other servers might (but from what I'm told, shoutcast doesn't): start sending from some valid synchronisation point (e.g. the mpeg sync pattern) - obviously, if you do that, it's a bit easier on clients (but I don't know of any that don't cope). Mike
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005, Michael Smith wrote:> There's one thing that icecast doesn't do (except for ogg streams) > that other servers might (but from what I'm told, shoutcast doesn't): > start sending from some valid synchronisation point (e.g. the mpeg > sync pattern) - obviously, if you do that, it's a bit easier on > clients (but I don't know of any that don't cope).Media Player Classic requires a Content-Length: before it will stream. So does Windows Media Player 6.4, except it also requires something else - could it be this mpeg sync pattern ? Now discuss "Content-Length: -1" ...
Michael Smith wrote:> The only thing I can think of that's almost certainly different is the > default size of the initial buffer (that's configurable in icecast, > and it might be configurable in shoutcast, but the defaults probably > differ).At least last time I checked, shoutcast had a 1 meg buffer (which was very annoying) that was not configurable. This meant *huge* latancy at low bit rates. And it would do stupid things like remember the end of the previous stream which was annoying as players would often choak when they got to the point where the new stream started. Geoff.
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 07:25, Greg J. Ogonowski wrote:> Can anyone explain what the fundamental difference between the > Burst-on-Connect mode that Icecast2 uses versus SHOUTcast?I can't see there being much difference if anything, the burst is just a blast of data that icecast has in the queue (the last <burst-size> bytes in fact)> There is a thread starting on the VLC Player list that is stating that the > problems that VLC has playing Icecast2 Burst-on-Connect (default) streams > is the fault of Icecast2. I don't believe this is true, as Winamp has no > problem with Icecast2 streams. I'm hoping to get an explanation so that I > can tell them what needs to be addressed in the VLC Player.The data that is sent is not modified in any way for bursting, it is just sent at a quicker rate. The main difference as already pointed out by others is the amount, the default is 64kbytes (to match common prebuffer sizes) for icecast whereas shoutcast blasts a whole lot more. I can only think that VLC is getting its timing messed up because of the burst. karl.