freebsd stable - Aug 2015 - help me understand latest->quarterly pkg.conf switch

On 2015-07-24 17:27, Glen Barber wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 05:15:52PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote:
>> I noticed that in stable/10, /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf was switched from 
>> using
>> latest package set to whichever one that is "quarterly" word
is
>> pointing to
>> at the moment. What is the motivation for this change?
>> 
> 
> This was not done in the stable/10 branch, it was done in releng/10.2.
> 
>> Quarterly package sets are useful if the end-user is able to pick 
>> which one
>> to pull from and there is some amount of time of support overlap so 
>> that the
>> user has time to validate the new package set and switch his systems 
>> to it
>> (like what is done with pkgsrc). As-is, "quarterly" works
just like
>> "latest"
>> from end-user perspective, but for most of the lifecycle packages are
>> outdated and there is a massive update bomb four times per year.
>> 
>> Port branches are still valuable to those building their own packages, 
>> since
>> they can support the previous (unsupported by the project) branch,
>> backporting fixes manually, while validating and upgrading to the new 
>> one.
>> But, what is the value of the quarterly package set as-is and what is 
>> the
>> value of switching to this set by default?
>> 
> 
> In general, the quarterly package set is less prone to having build
> failures, since the changes in the branch are (by intent) less
> intrusive, while still receiving security updates.  It is analogous to
> the stable or releng branches in src, and how they compare to head.
> 
> (This will be noted in the final 10.2-RELEASE announcement, as well as
> the release notes, and will also include instructions on how to switch
> to the 'latest' branch if that is what is desired.)
> 
> Glen
Cool, thanks for the explanation!

What would be really amazing to see are quarterly branches that the end 
user can switch between, like pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/2015Q3 -> 
pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/2015Q4 when he is ready, with at least a little 
bit of overlap.

Thanks Glen!

- Nikolai Lifanov

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 09:23:12PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov
wrote:
> On 2015-07-24 17:27, Glen Barber wrote:
> >On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 05:15:52PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote:
> >>I noticed that in stable/10, /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf was switched
from
> >>using
> >>latest package set to whichever one that is "quarterly"
word is pointing
> >>to
> >>at the moment. What is the motivation for this change?
> >>
> >
> >This was not done in the stable/10 branch, it was done in releng/10.2.
> >
> >>Quarterly package sets are useful if the end-user is able to pick
which
> >>one
> >>to pull from and there is some amount of time of support overlap so
that
> >>the
> >>user has time to validate the new package set and switch his
systems to
> >>it
> >>(like what is done with pkgsrc). As-is, "quarterly" works
just like
> >>"latest"
> >>from end-user perspective, but for most of the lifecycle packages
are
> >>outdated and there is a massive update bomb four times per year.
> >>
> >>Port branches are still valuable to those building their own
packages,
> >>since
> >>they can support the previous (unsupported by the project) branch,
> >>backporting fixes manually, while validating and upgrading to the
new
> >>one.
> >>But, what is the value of the quarterly package set as-is and what
is
> >>the
> >>value of switching to this set by default?
> >>
> >
> >In general, the quarterly package set is less prone to having build
> >failures, since the changes in the branch are (by intent) less
> >intrusive, while still receiving security updates.  It is analogous to
> >the stable or releng branches in src, and how they compare to head.
> >
> >(This will be noted in the final 10.2-RELEASE announcement, as well as
> >the release notes, and will also include instructions on how to switch
> >to the 'latest' branch if that is what is desired.)
> >
> >Glen
> 
> Cool, thanks for the explanation!
> 
You're welcome.  (The 'quarterly' branch is admittedly
under-documented,
which is a problem.)
> What would be really amazing to see are quarterly branches that the end
user
> can switch between, like pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/2015Q3 ->
> pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/2015Q4 when he is ready, with at least a little bit
> of overlap.
> 
I agree this would be a "nice to see" feature, but as I have insight
into how the pkg(8) mirrors operate, this is an unfortunately
non-trivial thing to implement.

Glen

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: not available
URL:
<http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/attachments/20150725/1e55461f/attachment.bin>

On 07/25/2015 05:04 AM, Glen Barber wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 09:23:12PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote:
>> On 2015-07-24 17:27, Glen Barber wrote:
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 05:15:52PM -0400, Nikolai Lifanov wrote:
>>>> I noticed that in stable/10, /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf was switched
from
>>>> using
>>>> latest package set to whichever one that is
"quarterly" word is pointing
>>>> to
>>>> at the moment. What is the motivation for this change?
>>>>
>>> This was not done in the stable/10 branch, it was done in
releng/10.2.
>>>
>>>> Quarterly package sets are useful if the end-user is able to
pick which
>>>> one
>>>> to pull from and there is some amount of time of support
overlap so that
>>>> the
>>>> user has time to validate the new package set and switch his
systems to
>>>> it
>>>> (like what is done with pkgsrc). As-is, "quarterly"
works just like
>>>> "latest"
>>> >from end-user perspective, but for most of the lifecycle
packages are
>>>> outdated and there is a massive update bomb four times per
year.
>>>>
>>>> Port branches are still valuable to those building their own
packages,
>>>> since
>>>> they can support the previous (unsupported by the project)
branch,
>>>> backporting fixes manually, while validating and upgrading to
the new
>>>> one.
>>>> But, what is the value of the quarterly package set as-is and
what is
>>>> the
>>>> value of switching to this set by default?
>>>>
>>> In general, the quarterly package set is less prone to having build
>>> failures, since the changes in the branch are (by intent) less
>>> intrusive, while still receiving security updates.  It is analogous
to
>>> the stable or releng branches in src, and how they compare to head.
>>>
>>> (This will be noted in the final 10.2-RELEASE announcement, as well
as
>>> the release notes, and will also include instructions on how to
switch
>>> to the 'latest' branch if that is what is desired.)
>>>
>>> Glen
>> Cool, thanks for the explanation!
>>
> You're welcome.  (The 'quarterly' branch is admittedly
under-documented,
> which is a problem.)
>
>> What would be really amazing to see are quarterly branches that the end
user
>> can switch between, like pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/2015Q3 ->
>> pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/2015Q4 when he is ready, with at least a little
bit
>> of overlap.
>>
> I agree this would be a "nice to see" feature, but as I have
insight
> into how the pkg(8) mirrors operate, this is an unfortunately
> non-trivial thing to implement.
>
> Glen
>
Does this mean that quarterly pkg are synchronous with ports quarterly 
branches? Say, at the moment, packages that we install with the default 
("quarterly") setting in /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf, are built from the 
2015Q3 branch?

-Alnis