I've resisted sending this email for a while since I really don't want to start a bikeshed nor a flame. However there comes a time to express my thoughts over the lack of visibility of the release process for FreeBSD 7.1. Here are the resources I am aware of: * release timeline [1]. This page makes no mention of beta 2 which is now some weeks old, so I assume the page is not actively used as a communication tool for the status of the release. * this list [2]. Although betas are announced here, there is no information about what is happening next. * subversion. Without checking out the whole repository, it is a little hard to use this as a news source and emails to the commit list still look more like cvs than svn so it is a bit hard to see which branch commits are going to. [3] * the bug tracker. Let's just say that FreeBSD's bug tracker is fairly primitive and 'target release' is not an option. I'd like to make several suggestions which could improve the transparency of the release process: 1. Short term fix: re could make a progress announcement on the appropriate lists every 14 days during the release process. Just a short summary of URLs pointing to the bug tracker. 2. Some web based friendly end-user visibility on the commit process, per branch. People can see what is going in and being fixed, but not what is left outstanding. Fisheye is an option because it costs nothing except the small load on the svn server. 3. Improvements to the bug tracker. Personally I'd love to see something like Jira used [4] with all the sophistication of workflow, release notes, voting for bugs, etc, etc. I'm happy to help with 2 and/or 3 in terms of contribution of my time and experience. Cheers Ari Maniatis [1] http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.1R/schedule.html [2] That is FreeBSD-stable [3] I've also made an attempt to have Atlassian use Fisheye to produce an friendly overview of the repository, however I need to get permission from FreeBSD for this to happen before Atlassian will go ahead and index the whole svn repository. I've been unable to get anyone to respond to my requests in that regard. The result might look a bit like this: http://fisheye6.atlassian.com/ [4] Disclaimer: I am an Atlassian partner and like their products, but stand to gain nothing by the decision FreeBSD core make, I just think it is the best product for FreeBSD's requirements and it works well over at Apache. --------------------------> ish http://www.ish.com.au Level 1, 30 Wilson Street Newtown 2042 Australia phone +61 2 9550 5001 fax +61 2 9550 4001 GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
On Mon, 2008-12-08 at 20:57 +1100, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:> I've resisted sending this email for a while since I really don't want > to start a bikeshed nor a flame. However there comes a time to express > my thoughts over the lack of visibility of the release process for > FreeBSD 7.1. Here are the resources I am aware of:[ Readers' Digest Version: Known problem. Unfortunately very slowly being worked on... ] Bottom line is my communication skills suck and of the bazillion other things I could do with my time these sorts of housekeeping chores wind up at a low enough priority they don't get done. But as you and others have made clear the priority needs to get raised and I need to deal with it. That's the part being worked on.> I'd like to make several suggestions which could improve the > transparency of the release process: > > 1. Short term fix: re could make a progress announcement on the > appropriate lists every 14 days during the release process. Just a > short summary of URLs pointing to the bug tracker.That's what I'll be working on fixing short-term. Weekly status reports here. One coming tomorrow (not coincidentally likely to include 7.1-RC1 is ready, that's why its not coming today; if you look around you can probably find it but a few misc. tidbits aren't ready yet).> 2. Some web based friendly end-user visibility on the commit process, > per branch. People can see what is going in and being fixed, but not > what is left outstanding. Fisheye is an option because it costs > nothing except the small load on the svn server. > > 3. Improvements to the bug tracker. Personally I'd love to see > something like Jira used [4] with all the sophistication of workflow, > release notes, voting for bugs, etc, etc.Those aren't really something I'd be likely to address any time in the near future mostly because there are other folks around who are involved in those areas. They both look like they require hooks into the guts of various systems I'm more than happy other folks are much more involved in. So comments on those likely need to come from someone else(s). -- Ken Smith - From there to here, from here to | kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu there, funny things are everywhere. | - Theodore Geisel | -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/attachments/20081208/4fcf4e3d/attachment.pgp
On 2008-Dec-08 20:57:37 +1100, Aristedes Maniatis <ari@ish.com.au> wrote:>* subversion. Without checking out the whole repository, it is a >little hard to use this as a news source and emails to the commit list >still look more like cvs than svn so it is a bit hard to see which >branch commits are going to. [3]I'm not sure what you want here. The branch is clearly indicated in both the subject and body of commit messages. What do you mean as "news source"? Commits are inherently low level and it's difficult to see how a commit could be massaged into some sort of press release without a fair amount of meta information in the commit log.>* the bug tracker. Let's just say that FreeBSD's bug tracker is fairly >primitive and 'target release' is not an option.Agreed. This is an issue that comes up regularly but I don't believe a solution has been identified. I suspect one of the requirements would be that it be FOSS.>2. Some web based friendly end-user visibility on the commit process, >per branch.I presume you're aware of svn.freebsd.org.> People can see what is going in and being fixed, but not >what is left outstanding.If you mean open PRs, lists are regularly reported to various mailing lists and can be accessed via http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi Better integration of the PR and commit process might be nice but I'm not sure if it's practical with gnats.>[3] I've also made an attempt to have Atlassian use Fisheye to >produce an friendly overview of the repository,I've had a look at several of the fisheye sites and am not sure what it would buy the Project, other than some pretty graphs. I don't see how this is any more "friendly" than svn.freebsd.org. -- Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/attachments/20081208/0b103437/attachment.pgp
I'd also appreciate a little more frequent updating of the release schedule, maybe with some terse "we're waiting on this ... " notes, like there were for some past releases. I'd guess the amount of time involved in doing so would be modest.> * subversion. Without checking out the whole repository, it is a > little hard to use this as a news source and emails to the commit list > still look more like cvs than svn so it is a bit hard to see which > branch commits are going to. [3]Other than the comments that have already been made about the subject and the body of the messages, what's the matter with the other svn-src-stable-* or other svn-src-* mailing lists, some of which will focus more closely on those commits affecting the release(s)? Or, as someone suggested recently on one of the lists, something like: svn log -v -r '{2008-2-27}:HEAD' svn://svn.freebsd.org/base/stable/7/ Regards, b.
On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 08:57:37PM +1100, Aristedes Maniatis wrote:> 3. Improvements to the bug tracker. Personally I'd love to see > something like Jira used [4] with all the sophistication of workflow, > release notes, voting for bugs, etc, etc.I have some notes for some prototyping ideas, but I've been involved in package building issues more than bugbusting issues lately. I think it's time to task-switch ... mcl