BACKGROUND: A few years ago one could get a FreeBSD CD and install X and get a decent basic system from one CD. One can still do this with Ubuntu today as well. Why can't we have a small window manager like icewm along with Firefox 3.0+ be among the packages on the first FreeBSD CD so a basic working system with a web browser can be a default install? Is it that X.org is now too big? I have been a FreeBSD user/builder for more than a decade because of / usr/src/make - complete sources and a beautiful build system, but I must admit that Ubuntu has done a great job of modern hardware detection and providing a nice useable system out of the box. I wish we could join both worlds in a future BSD release. (I crashed Ubuntu 8.04 in the first day so I still prefer BSD to Linux.) Also, and I am sure I am not the only one with one of these, my new $500 Dell Inspiron 1525 is not supported well by BSD RELENG_7: the Intel 4965 wireless and the Marvell 88E80xx Ethernet are both NOT supported so I have a great new laptop which cannot connect to the outside world with BSD. :-( Ubuntu supports these and lots more. SUMMARY: I would like to see FreeBSD 7.1 add to its disc1: 1) X.org 2) icewm 3) firefox-3.0 4) support for Intel 4965 wireless drivers 5) support for Marvell 88E8040 ethernet driver Dan Allen
On 2008-Sep-03 10:36:11 -0600, Dan Allen <danallen46@airwired.net> wrote:>Also, and I am sure I am not the only one with one of these, my new >$500 Dell Inspiron 1525 is not supported well by BSD RELENG_7: the >Intel 4965 wireless and the Marvell 88E80xx Ethernet are both NOT >supported so I have a great new laptop which cannot connect to the >outside world with BSD. :-( Ubuntu supports these and lots more.Your patches to add support for the i4965 and your Marvell 88E80xx must have been stripped by the mailing list software. Can you please re-send them. WiFi chip support is very hit-and-miss. Vendors won't release programming information because of regulatory issues and this makes supporting them very difficult. Have you tried using ndis? A large number of Marvell 88E80xx chips are supported by msk(4). If yours isn't, you are going to need to provide more details on what chip you have.>I would like to see FreeBSD 7.1 add to its disc1: > >1) X.org >2) icewm >3) firefox-3.0 >4) support for Intel 4965 wireless drivers >5) support for Marvell 88E8040 ethernet driverDisc1 is full. What do you suggest should be removed from disk1 to make space for the above? -- Peter Jeremy Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/attachments/20080903/91ff816d/attachment.pgp
Dan Allen wrote:> BACKGROUND: > > A few years ago one could get a FreeBSD CD and install X and get a > decent basic system from one CD. > > One can still do this with Ubuntu today as well. > > Why can't we have a small window manager like icewm along with Firefox > 3.0+ be among the packages on the first FreeBSD CD so a basic working > system with a web browser can be a default install? Is it that X.org is > now too big? > > SUMMARY: > > I would like to see FreeBSD 7.1 add to its disc1: > > 1) X.org > 2) icewm > 3) firefox-3.0 > 4) support for Intel 4965 wireless drivers > 5) support for Marvell 88E8040 ethernet driver >If you just want na instant workstation, why you just don't try Freesbie or something like that? If I install FreeBSD on a PC I expect this installation to live there for some years. I can spend some hours/days installing and configuring what I really need. At least this is the way I see it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. -- Guido Falsi <mad@madpilot.net>
On 3 Sep 2008, at 1:14 PM, Peter Jeremy wrote:> Your patches to add support for the i4965 and your Marvell 88E80xx > must have been stripped by the mailing list software. Can you please > re-send them.I have not written patches, thus I did not send any patches. Dan
On Wed, 3 Sep 2008, Dan Allen wrote:> Also, and I am sure I am not the only one with one of these, my new $500 Dell > Inspiron 1525 is not supported well by BSD RELENG_7: the Intel 4965 wireless > and the Marvell 88E80xx Ethernet are both NOT supported so I have a great new > laptop which cannot connect to the outside world with BSD. :-( Ubuntu > supports these and lots more.There is support for the Intel 4965 in HEAD, with the iwn(4) driver. I don't know how likely this is to be merged before 7.1, but I suspect if people test it and confirms that it works for them, it may be possible. As for the 88E80xx, it probably depends exaclty which chipset you are talking about. Several are already supported with the msk(4) driver, have you tried it? If that doesn't work, the output of "pciconf -l" will be necessary before there's any chance of helping. Gavn
On 3 Sep 2008, at 1:14 PM, Peter Jeremy wrote:> Disc1 is full. What do you suggest should be removed from disk1 to > make space for the above?I see. I was thinking of FreeBSD 7.0 whose disc1 is 509 MB in size, leaving almost 200 MB free for a standard 700 MB CD. Q: Has FreeBSD 7.1 REALLY filled up 189 MB with bug fixes and new hardware support? Ubuntu 8.04 has room for the linux kernel, for GCC, for tons of packages including almost all of OpenOffice 2.2.1 (which is HUGE), GIMP, Firefox, X of course, and quite a few other things on their 700 MB CD, including support for lots of new hardware that BSD does not have. BSD has source code -- which I personally would rather have than GIMP, etc. -- but do the sources take up that much room? They take 70-80 MB, but the bulk of that is already included in the above 509 MB of 7.0 disc1. (BTW, having full sources as part of FreeBSD is in my opinion one of the coolest features of BSD so that should NEVER be compromised.) So, I where the BSD free space is going?? Here is a quick list (not exhaustive or definitive) of the libraries that Firefox 3.0 requires, and their sizes in bytes: 3969 firefox 8332 firefox-bin 1080753 libX11.so.6 9564 libXcomposite.so.1 40524 libXcursor.so.1 9040 libXdamage.so.1 64848 libXext.so.6 18716 libXfixes.so.3 37019 libXi.so.6 9279 libXinerama.so.1 26618 libXrandr.so.2 35933 libXrender.so.1 132271 libatk-1.0.so.0 478869 libcairo.so.2 204002 libfontconfig.so.1 341460 libfreebl3.so 514577 libfreetype.so.9 603150 libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0 102751 libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0 760129 libglib-2.0.so 13540 libgmodule-2.0.so.0 251326 libgobject-2.0.so.0 3930035 libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 592012 libmozjs.so 238383 libnspr4.so.1 1140648 libnss3.so 324468 libnssckbi.so 113912 libnssdbm3.so 86560 libnssutil3.so 262000 libpango-1.0.so.0 37947 libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 163539 libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 213877 libplc4.so.1 209648 libplds4.so.1 145260 libsmime3.so 210076 libsoftokn3.so 409876 libsqlite3.so 180320 libssl3.so 13296 libxpcom.so 14678048 libxul.so These total 27696575 bytes or 26.4 MB. Notice this includes some of X (but I am sure some of these libraries include other libraries that are not included in this total. This is not a full DAG analysis.) Firefox also links to libc, libz, libm and other common libs, but they are part of the base system so they are not on this list. Compressed using tar czpf (gzip) these files occupy 11003400 bytes or 10.5 MB. Compressed using tar cjpf (bzip) these files occupy 10124743 bytes or 9.7 MB! Dan
Phillip Salzman wrote:> An easy answer would be to put the web-browser and such the first > disk, but > I don't think it would solve anything. If it kept with those, > FreeBSD would > find itself just moving towards the same work being done at PC-BSD, > wouldn't > it?When I see almost 200 MB free on disc1 of 7.0, and I remember the handy apps & pkgs which used to be on past releases of FreeBSD, I do not see it as moving towards PC-BSD as much as I see it as going back to what FreeBSD used to have just a few releases ago. In truth, for workstations and laptops at least, most of us do want a web browser. Not having a decent web browser out of the box in 2008 after 15 years of web browser development gives BSD a really archaic look and feel. We all know that BSD is the best, most solid OS out there - but occasionally we need to do a bit of marketing, we need to show our stuff to let others see that "we get it". Dan
I always do the minimal install over the net. I got X working in 7-stable by doing the minimal install, then the following. pkg_add -r xorg pkg_add -r portupgrade portupgrade -NRP kde pkg_add -r tightvnc. I then edited the vnc config file in my homedir, it was really pretty easy on a dual core AM2 system using the AMD64 version. Now, on my P3 Celeron, this was a LOT slower. Brian
| By Dan Allen <danallen46@airwired.net> | [ 2008-09-03 23:06 +0200 ]> FreeBSD from the machine and installed Ubuntu 8.04. I therefore > cannot run "pciconf -l" at this moment in time, but I may get back > around to it.lspci ? Regards, Aragon
Google for freesbie, or perhaps PC-BSD On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Dan Allen <danallen46@airwired.net> wrote:> BACKGROUND: > > A few years ago one could get a FreeBSD CD and install X and get a decent > basic system from one CD. > > One can still do this with Ubuntu today as well. > > Why can't we have a small window manager like icewm along with Firefox 3.0+ > be among the packages on the first FreeBSD CD so a basic working system with > a web browser can be a default install? Is it that X.org is now too big? > > I have been a FreeBSD user/builder for more than a decade because of > /usr/src/make - complete sources and a beautiful build system, but I must > admit that Ubuntu has done a great job of modern hardware detection and > providing a nice useable system out of the box. I wish we could join both > worlds in a future BSD release. (I crashed Ubuntu 8.04 in the first day so > I still prefer BSD to Linux.) > > Also, and I am sure I am not the only one with one of these, my new $500 > Dell Inspiron 1525 is not supported well by BSD RELENG_7: the Intel 4965 > wireless and the Marvell 88E80xx Ethernet are both NOT supported so I have a > great new laptop which cannot connect to the outside world with BSD. :-( > Ubuntu supports these and lots more. > > SUMMARY: > > I would like to see FreeBSD 7.1 add to its disc1: > > 1) X.org > 2) icewm > 3) firefox-3.0 > 4) support for Intel 4965 wireless drivers > 5) support for Marvell 88E8040 ethernet driver > > Dan Allen > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kai Otto <kais.deliverymail@googlemail.com>
Date: 2008/9/5
Subject: Re: FreeBSD 7.1 Content
To: Tom Evans <tevans.uk@googlemail.com>
Hello
I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I'm not shure.
IMHO it would _be_ nice if there's a HTML-browser in the standard
installation (with option to not install it in sysinstall).
I say HTML and not web because I think about the /usr/share/doc
.html-documentation. If someone really has no Internet-connection as
mentioned before he/she isn't able to read the handbook, which IMHO is a
very important part of FreeBSD. There are great manpages and exaple files,
but the best explanations are in the handbook.
Optional, the motd could tell the interested newbie how he/she can start
reading the handbook. At the moment, the standard motd explains how to learn
about manpages ('man man') and how to learn about the disklayout
('man
hier') that's just great.
An other way would be adding a hint to the shipped htmlbrowser (eg. lynx)
and it's initialisation with the handbook to the hier manpage.
I don't know if thats to 'deep hidden'.
An other thing was the problem with the outdated packages on the discset and
the people who need it because the 'target pc' for the install has no
(or
only slow) internetconnection. I think this is already solved: People
needing up-to-date packages/ports can use the 'bootonly' iso-images and
download the complete installation from a local or internet server. The
other people can use the not-100%-up-to-date packages on the discset.
Greets, Kai
Under linux: install pci-tools or something, then "lspci". Adrian 2008/9/4 Dan Allen <danallen46@airwired.net>:> > On 3 Sep 2008, at 1:58 PM, Wesley Shields wrote: > >> I installed the June snapshot of -current on my laptop and it supports >> my Intel 4965 just fine. Support for this card is out there and does >> work, just not in RELENG_7. > > On 3 Sep 2008, at 2:45 PM, Gavin Atkinson wrote: > >> There is support for the Intel 4965 in HEAD, with the iwn(4) driver. > > Thanks guys for the info. > > Not having ANY wired or wireless support in FreeBSD for a very decent Dell > laptop that is flying off of the shelves at $500, I deleted FreeBSD from the > machine and installed Ubuntu 8.04. I therefore cannot run "pciconf -l" at > this moment in time, but I may get back around to it. > > Stay tuned... maybe for 7.2. > > Dan > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >