In http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html says Updating Existing Systems> An upgrade of any existing system to FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE constitutes > a major version upgrade, so no matter which method you use to update > an older system you should reinstall any ports you have installed on > the machine. This will avoid binaries becoming linked to inconsistent > sets of libraries when future port upgrades rebuild one port but not > others that link to it. This can be done with:# portupgrade -faP etc... Why!!! Do you know how much time I have to spend with my PC to reinstall all of this programs from ports? Only openoffice takes one day! And where is Gnome and such...There must be other way...I would not reinstall my packages ;) Then the servers. Why should I reinstall all my databases and such? I always liked that FreeBSD base (OS) is separated from packages. And no matter what I do with the packages, my OS will always work. I don't want dependency hell like in Linux. Now you are telling me that my database might not work after upgrade to a new version. Is that it? -- One cannot sell the earth upon which the people walk Tacunka Witco
No one is forcing you to upgrade.> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > stable@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Marko Lerota > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:08 PM > To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org > Subject: Upgrading to 7.0 - stupid requirements > > In http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html says > > Updating Existing Systems > > > An upgrade of any existing system to FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE constitutes > > a major version upgrade, so no matter which method you use to update > > an older system you should reinstall any ports you have installed on > > the machine. This will avoid binaries becoming linked to inconsistent > > sets of libraries when future port upgrades rebuild one port but not > > others that link to it. This can be done with: > > # portupgrade -faP > > etc... > > Why!!! Do you know how much time I have to spend with my PC to > reinstall > all of this programs from ports? Only openoffice takes one day! And > where > is Gnome and such...There must be other way...I would not reinstall my > packages ;) > > Then the servers. Why should I reinstall all my databases and such? I > always > liked that FreeBSD base (OS) is separated from packages. And no matter > what I > do with the packages, my OS will always work. I don't want dependency > hell like in Linux. Now you are telling me that my database might not > work > after upgrade to a new version. Is that it? > > -- > One cannot sell the earth upon which the people walk > Tacunka Witco > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > __________ NOD32 2910 (20080228) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com
On Feb 28, 2008, at 3:08 PM, Marko Lerota wrote:> In http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html says > > Updating Existing Systems >> An upgrade of any existing system to FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE constitutes >> a major version upgrade, so no matter which method you use to update >> an older system you should reinstall any ports you have installed on >> the machine. This will avoid binaries becoming linked to inconsistent >> sets of libraries when future port upgrades rebuild one port but not >> others that link to it. This can be done with: > > # portupgrade -faP > > etc... > > Why!!!The comment above tells you: "This will avoid binaries becoming linked to inconsistent sets of libraries when future port upgrades rebuild one port but not others that link to it."> Do you know how much time I have to spend with my PC to reinstall > all of this programs from ports? Only openoffice takes one day! And > where > is Gnome and such...There must be other way...I would not reinstall my > packages ;)Sure, you could stick with 6.3 for quite some time.> Then the servers. Why should I reinstall all my databases and such? > I always > liked that FreeBSD base (OS) is separated from packages. And no > matter what I > do with the packages, my OS will always work. I don't want dependency > hell like in Linux. Now you are telling me that my database might > not work > after upgrade to a new version. Is that it?Not exactly. The 6.x binaries will continue to work just fine under 7.0, so long as you don't recompile any of the libraries they are using. However, as soon as you start upgrading anything, you will end up with programs trying to pull in the 6.x and 7.x version of libc etc, and that will cause problems. Note that the portupgrade command given above will try to download precompiled binaries where available, rather than requiring you to compile everything locally. -- -Chuck
On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 12:08:22AM +0100, Marko Lerota wrote:> In http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html says > > Updating Existing Systems > > > An upgrade of any existing system to FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE constitutes > > a major version upgrade, so no matter which method you use to update > > an older system you should reinstall any ports you have installed onShould, not must. Use misc/compat6x if you don't want to do this, but that doesn't work for things which look in the kernel (sysutils/lsof for example) Also, it doesn't say that you don't need to upgrade your ports, you need to reinstall them. Problem resolved by carefully reading. Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis | Personal website: http://www.mavetju.org edwin@mavetju.org | Weblog: http://www.mavetju.org/weblog/
Marko Lerota wrote:> In http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html says > > Updating Existing Systems > >> An upgrade of any existing system to FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE constitutes >> a major version upgrade, so no matter which method you use to update >> an older system you should reinstall any ports you have installed on >> the machine. This will avoid binaries becoming linked to inconsistent >> sets of libraries when future port upgrades rebuild one port but not >> others that link to it. This can be done with: > > # portupgrade -faP > > etc... > > Why!!! Do you know how much time I have to spend with my PC to reinstall > all of this programs from ports? Only openoffice takes one day! And where > is Gnome and such...There must be other way...I would not reinstall my > packages ;) > > Then the servers. Why should I reinstall all my databases and such? I always > liked that FreeBSD base (OS) is separated from packages. And no matter what I > do with the packages, my OS will always work. I don't want dependency > hell like in Linux. Now you are telling me that my database might not work > after upgrade to a new version. Is that it?First, try to relax. portupgrade -faP requests to reinstall everything from precompiled packages. It will only fall back to compiling them locally if the package is unavailable (e.g. for legal reasons). Second, the reason for this requirement is explained in the announcement. In fact, it has *always* been required to recompile ports when moving to a new major release of FreeBSD, for guaranteed correct operation when some of the ports are updated later on. This is not FreeBSD-specific advice. It is true on any operating system when the underlying set of libraries changes in an incompatible way. However, on FreeBSD this *only* happens betweeen version branches. Sometimes you can get away without the full recompile (this was more often true in the past), but thesedays so many ports do things like dynamic loading of shared libraries that it is effectively mandatory advice. Feel free to ignore the advice if you continue to feel outraged by it, but it will not be our fault when your ports suddenly stop working properly after your subsequent port upgrades. Kris
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Marko Lerota wrote:> In http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html says > > Updating Existing Systems > >> An upgrade of any existing system to FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE constitutes >> a major version upgrade, so no matter which method you use to update >> an older system you should reinstall any ports you have installed on >> the machine. This will avoid binaries becoming linked to inconsistent >> sets of libraries when future port upgrades rebuild one port but not >> others that link to it. This can be done with: > > # portupgrade -faP > > etc... > > Why!!! Do you know how much time I have to spend with my PC to reinstall > all of this programs from ports? Only openoffice takes one day! And where > is Gnome and such...There must be other way...I would not reinstall my > packages ;) > > Then the servers. Why should I reinstall all my databases and such? I always > liked that FreeBSD base (OS) is separated from packages. And no matter what I > do with the packages, my OS will always work. I don't want dependency > hell like in Linux. Now you are telling me that my database might not work > after upgrade to a new version. Is that it?With '-P' I think portupgrade would use packages where possible. Granted, it's a big PITA to install big beasts like OpenOffice, etc. :( One suggestion: install misc/compat6x. The rebuild-everything is just an suggestion which will avoid problems caused by binary incompatibility, like some shared objects wants libc.so.6 and some else wants libc.so.7 which will end up with big chaos. Beginning from FreeBSD 7.0, we have introduced the versioned symbols which may eliminate the need of the massive rebuild in the future... Cheers, - -- Xin LI <delphij@delphij.net> http://www.delphij.net/ FreeBSD - The Power to Serve! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHx0rFi+vbBBjt66ARAu0DAKC78/+duFcICQehw+V8YS3jTLTxKACfap87 914qnITBN6QinVyVry2FBfc=2lXm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Nothing to stop you using packages if you so wish. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marko Lerota" <mlerota@iskon.hr>> # portupgrade -faP > > etc... > > Why!!! Do you know how much time I have to spend with my PC to reinstall > all of this programs from ports? Only openoffice takes one day! And where > is Gnome and such...There must be other way...I would not reinstall my > packages ;)... ===============================================This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmaster@multiplay.co.uk.
Marko Lerota wrote:> In http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html says > > Updating Existing Systems > > > An upgrade of any existing system to FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE constitutes > > a major version upgrade, so no matter which method you use to update > > an older system you should reinstall any ports you have installed on > > the machine. This will avoid binaries becoming linked to inconsistent > > sets of libraries when future port upgrades rebuild one port but not > > others that link to it. This can be done with: > > # portupgrade -faP > > etc... > > Why!!!If you never rebuild any ports at all after upgrading to a new major version, then your ports should all continue to work as long as they can find the old libraries they need. However, once you rebuild a port, it will link to new libraries, and may also link to other libraries that continue to be linked to the old libraries. You may end up with a binary being linked against libc.so.6 and libc.so.7, which will not work.> Then the servers. Why should I reinstall all my databases and such? I always > liked that FreeBSD base (OS) is separated from packages. And no matter what I > do with the packages, my OS will always work. I don't want dependency > hell like in Linux. Now you are telling me that my database might not work > after upgrade to a new version. Is that it?Ports that depend on other ports are vulnerable to this problem. Ports that only require base libraries are not. The more ports a port depends on, the more likely you are to run into problems if you don't rebuild all ports to begin with. So, if you don't ever rebuild any of your ports at all, everything should still work until you finally do rebuild a port. At that point, if that port doesn't depend on other ports and only links to base libraries, you'll still be fine. Once you rebuild a port that depends on other ports, things may break if you don't force a rebuild of every port that port depends on. The paragraph you quoted above attempts to avoid that breakage and the mailing list questions that ensue, by forcing a rebuild of all ports to begin with. -- Skip
Quoting Marko Lerota <mlerota@iskon.hr>:> In http://www.freebsd.org/releases/7.0R/announce.html says > > Updating Existing Systems > >> An upgrade of any existing system to FreeBSD 7.0-RELEASE constitutes >> a major version upgrade, so no matter which method you use to update >> an older system you should reinstall any ports you have installed on >> the machine. This will avoid binaries becoming linked to inconsistent >> sets of libraries when future port upgrades rebuild one port but not >> others that link to it. This can be done with: > > # portupgrade -faP > > etc... > > Why!!! Do you know how much time I have to spend with my PC to reinstall > all of this programs from ports? Only openoffice takes one day! And where > is Gnome and such...There must be other way...I would not reinstall my > packages ;) > > Then the servers. Why should I reinstall all my databases and such? I always > liked that FreeBSD base (OS) is separated from packages. And no matter what I > do with the packages, my OS will always work. I don't want dependency > hell like in Linux. Now you are telling me that my database might not work > after upgrade to a new version. Is that it?While not a recommended substitution for "good housekeeping". I thought it worth mentioning: LIBMAP.CONF(5) http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=libmap.conf&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+6.3-RELEASE&format=html --Chris H> > -- > One cannot sell the earth upon which the people walk > Tacunka Witco > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >-- panic: kernel trap (ignored)
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:43:20 -0500 "Kevin K" <kkutzko@teksavvy.com> wrote:> No one is forcing you to upgrade.Head in the sand reaction. I think the guy is right. The upgrade proces and constant rebuilding of ports made me switch in the end after years of using freeBSD. My computer is fast, but I want to use it for someting useful iso compiling and compiling and.. -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D ++ http://nagual.nl/ + SunOS sxde 01/08 ++
Dick Hoogendijk wrote:> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:43:20 -0500 > "Kevin K" <kkutzko@teksavvy.com> wrote: > >> No one is forcing you to upgrade. > > Head in the sand reaction. > I think the guy is right. > The upgrade proces and constant rebuilding of ports made me switch in > the end after years of using freeBSD. My computer is fast, but I want > to use it for someting useful iso compiling and compiling and..Uh, we have had precompiled package support for over a decade now. Did you really not know about it?! Kris
Sat, 29/02/2008 at 10:08 +0100, Dick Hoogendijk writes:> > No one is forcing you to upgrade. > Head in the sand reaction.Nope.> I think the guy is right. > The upgrade proces and constant rebuilding of ports made me switch in > the end after years of using freeBSD. My computer is fast, but I want > to use it for someting useful iso compiling and compiling and..You were not forced to. All of your installed software will work fine if you install 6.x compatibility libraries unless a piece of software is inherently system-dependant. Generally speaking, OpenOffice.org will work fine, and lm_sensors MIGHT, but it is not guaranteed to. As of any major version upgrade of FreeBSD. :) -- Yours Andrew Kolchoogin.
Hello Marko, I'm very sorry that you have trouble updating your FreeBSD installation, but there are very good technical reasons to update your packages, as others have already explained in detail (i.e. library conflicts). When I updated my home workstation from FreeBSD 6 to 7, I used the opportunity to clean up my installed packages, which was long overdue anyway. First I saved the output from "pkg_info" in a file. Then I edited it and removed everything that I don't need. There was lots of superfluous crap in it, like ports that I installed once out of curiosity but never continued to use them, and ports that were installed as a dependency once but aren't required anymore because the dependent software is long gone. Then I did "pkg_delete \*", checked for left-overs in /usr/local because not everything was removed cleanly, and then installed the ports from my text file again. I chose to compile from ports instead of installing precompiled packages because the machine is fairly fast (if you have a slow machine, installing packages will be much faster, of course). It certainly went a lot quicker than if I had blindly updated all ports without cleaning up. And now all of my installed packages are guaranteed to be fresh and up to date, and I only have the stuff on my harddisk that I really need. Really, such situations where you should update all of your packages is the best opportunity to clean up the mess that has accumulated on your disk in a long time. I recommend that everyone considers doing that, too, instead of blindly running portupgrade. Of course, the latter would work, too, but it takes longer and will rather add to the mess instead of cleaning it. ;-) Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Gesch?ftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht M?n- chen, HRB 125758, Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Python is executable pseudocode. Perl is executable line noise.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Garrett Wollman <wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> wrote:> In article <b269bc570803222059o7b52c8d8p9fa0fdbfed273ba0@mail.gmail.com>, > > Freddie Cash writes: > >Oh, gods, please, no! That is one of the things I absolutely hate > >about Debian (and its derivatives). There are some packages on Debian > >where they use separate text files for each configuration option > >(ProFTPd, for examples). It is a huge mess of directories and files > >that makes it a *royal* PITA to edit at the CLI. > > > >Yes, a scheme like that is better for GUI tools, but it really makes > >things more difficult for non-GUI users/uses (like headless servers > >managed via SSH). > > Try managing a few hundred mostly-but-not-entirely-identical machines > and you really begin to appreciate the value of this approach. It is > orders of magnitude easier to drop one file into the central config > repository that does *one thing* than it is to manage a dozen > not-quite-identical copies of a monolithic configuration file, keeping > in sync the parts that are supposed to be in sync, and keeping the > parts that are supposed to be different, different. > > If FreeBSD were able to do this, it might have a bit more traction at > my place of employment.We do, using a "include file" setup. A main, monolothic config file for everything that is common between all systems, and then include a separate file that is specific to that machine. We based this on the /etc/rc.conf vs /etc/rc.conf.local setup. Works quite nicely across our 100+ servers. No need to break things down to the "multiple directories full of symlinks and itty-bitty files" setup, though. -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com
FWIW - I have just completely *recompiled* my userland after the 6->7 upgrade - i.e: # portupgrade --batch -fa on a PIII 1.26Ghz system in just under 2 days (i.e over the weekend) for 836 packages - desktop system with Gnome etc. So it's not actually too bad. Using the packages option on faster hardware should be pretty painless. Cheers Mark Marko Lerota wrote:> > > # portupgrade -faP > > etc... > > Why!!! Do you know how much time I have to spend with my PC to reinstall > all of this programs from ports? Only openoffice takes one day! And where > is Gnome and such...There must be other way...I would not reinstall my > packages ;) > > T