freebsd stable - Oct 2006 - Recommendations for a serial port card you can actually BUY?

Hi folks;

Ok, one of my pet peeves is coming around to bite me again.

I filed [kern/103137: Rocketport driver is broken in 6.x] a few weeks ago
after fruitlessly trying to get the Comtrol Rocketport driver to actually
behave under 6.x.  Its fine under 5.x, but under 6.x it fails badly, either
radically delaying input characters or in some cases sending multiple copies
upstream to the application (!)  The misbehavior is grossly increased by
doing such horiffic things as using select(2) and poll(2) on an I/O stream
associated with a port.

My original posting here drew an "unofficial" patch that did not
improve
things at all.

Barf.

Ok, so that card is no longer supported (even though it is listed as
supported!  I've heard nothing about the listing of it being
"supported"
being removed from the hardware list, and according to the web version, it
still there!  Supported it ain't when it doesn't work at all!)

So what do I buy to replace this thing?  Well, looking at the serial
hardware claimed supported, I seem to have a problem finding anything I can
actually purchase!  I don't need real high performance - a "16550"
based
multiport card is fine.  I also don't want a $1500 solution - this isn't
a $1500 problem.  $500 seems reasonable.

The Rocketport 550 looked promising, as its just a bunch of 16550s on the 
PCI bus, and so should work.

Guess what?  Comtrol EOL'd the entire 550 line several months ago.  They are
now "unobtanium", and their "replacements" are all smart
cards - which gets
me right back where I started!

I can't find any evidence that any of the other 4 or 8-port versions claimed
to work under the puc() driver are actually in production either - I've been
unable to find any of THOSE for sale online or otherwise.

I have several Digiboards, and the Digi driver worked last time I looked at
it (back in the 5.x days), but they're ISA.  Useless in today's machines
which are increasingly ISA-slot devoid (including all of my present line of
servers!)

So..... I have an application that requires six serial ports, and would 
like ten.  5.x FreeBSD versions are being EOL'd per the announcement, 
forcing me to move to 6.x.  The Comtrol driver for the "Smart" 
Rocketport boards is broken in 6.x, and the PR appears to be one 
that will sit and rot.

What options do I have in the FreeBSD universe here guys?  This is a
real no-BS production application that has hundreds of deployed instances,
and it is in no way "obsolete" or something I intend to stop
supporting.

I know serial I/O is passe for many, but some of us have applications that 
actually require it, and can't rationally be moved to anything else due 
to external hardware considerations.

--
-- 
Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights
Activist
http://www.denninger.net	My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org		Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
http://genesis3.blogspot.com	Musings Of A Sentient Mind

I would recommend staying with FreeBSD-5.

On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 10:19:25AM -0500, Karl Denninger
wrote:
> Hi folks;
> 
> Ok, one of my pet peeves is coming around to bite me again.
>
> {snip}
> 
> I know serial I/O is passe for many, but some of us have applications that 
> actually require it, and can't rationally be moved to anything else due
> to external hardware considerations.
This is in no way flame-bait, nor does it have any negative
implications -- as a fellow SA I'm just curious.

What exactly are you using serial cards for in this day and age?
A serial console server (a la Cyclades TS)?  Or is there something
that's more mission-critical (for lack-of better term).

I guess my question is: what are you using these cards for, and
can whatever the goal is be accomplished by some alternate hardware
(serial-via-USB adaptors/hubs, serial-over-IP, etc.)?

BTW -- I completely agree with you about the cost of these cards,
especially so in 2006.  There is absolutely no justified explanation
for such a card costing US$1500, or even US$500.  These are ICs and
basic PCBs that at most cost US$20 per device -- the profit mark-up
is appalling.

-- 
| Jeremy Chadwick                                 jdc at parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking                        http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator                   Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.               PGP: 4BD6C0CB |

At 11:19 AM 10/5/2006, Karl Denninger wrote:
>So what do I buy to replace this thing?  Well, looking at the serial
>hardware claimed supported, I seem to have a problem finding anything I can
>actually purchase!  I don't need real high performance - a
"16550" based
>multiport card is fine.  I also don't want a $1500 solution - this
isn't
>a $1500 problem.  $500 seems reasonable.
I use a lot of 4 port Lava cards on RELENG_6.  They are about $80 
CDN. I have also used the PCI cards and USB FTDI based adaptors in 
the past at http://www.byterunner.com/

puc1: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> port 
0xbc00-0xbc07,0xb800-0xb807 irq 17 at device 2.0 on pci1
sio5: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc1
sio5: type 16550A
sio5: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
sio6: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc1
sio6: type 16550A
sio6: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
puc2: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> port 
0xc400-0xc407,0xc000-0xc007 irq 17 at device 2.1 on pci1
sio7: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc2
sio7: type 16550A
sio7: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
sio8: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc2
sio8: type 16550A
sio8: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode

I have one box where 2 4 port cards live together (zoo.freebsd.org)

[zoo]% uname -a
FreeBSD zoo.freebsd.org 6.1-STABLE FreeBSD 6.1-STABLE #6: Fri Aug 18 
06:16:39 EDT 2006     rwatson@zoo.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/ZOO  i386
[zoo]%

puc0: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> port 
0xdf00-0xdf07,0xde00-0xde07 irq 20 at device 0.0 on pci2
sio4: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc0
sio4: type 16550A
sio4: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
sio5: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc0
sio5: type 16550A
sio5: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
puc1: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> port 
0xdd00-0xdd07,0xdc00-0xdc07 irq 20 at device 0.1 on pci2
sio6: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc1
sio6: type 16550A
sio6: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
sio7: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc1
sio7: type 16550A
sio7: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
puc2: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> port 
0xdb00-0xdb07,0xda00-0xda07 irq 21 at device 1.0 on pci2
sio8: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc2
sio8: type 16550A
sio8: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
sio9: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc2
sio9: type 16550A
sio9: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
puc3: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> port 
0xd900-0xd907,0xd800-0xd807 irq 21 at device 1.1 on pci2
sio10: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc3
sio10: type 16550A
sio10: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode
sio11: <Lava Computers Quattro-PCI serial port> on puc3
sio11: type 16550A
sio11: unable to activate interrupt in fast mode - using normal mode

         ---Mike

Hi,

Karl Denninger wrote:
> So..... I have an application that requires six serial ports, and would
> like ten.  5.x FreeBSD versions are being EOL'd per the announcement,
> forcing me to move to 6.x.  The Comtrol driver for the "Smart"
> Rocketport boards is broken in 6.x, and the PR appears to be one
> that will sit and rot.
>
> What options do I have in the FreeBSD universe here guys?  This is a
> real no-BS production application that has hundreds of deployed instances,
> and it is in no way "obsolete" or something I intend to stop
supporting.
>
> I know serial I/O is passe for many, but some of us have applications that
> actually require it, and can't rationally be moved to anything else due
> to external hardware considerations.
I do serial I/O a bit.  I use USB to RS232 and USB to RS485/RS422 devices. 
There are a bunch of vendors, they are cheap and seem to work well.  I have 
also seen (but not used) 4 port versions of these things, and I wouldn't be 
surprised if you could find an eight port version as well.

Regards,

Jan Mikkelsen

...
> So what do I buy to replace this thing?  Well, looking at the serial
> hardware claimed supported, I seem to have a problem finding anything I can
> actually purchase!  I don't need real high performance - a
"16550" based
> multiport card is fine.  I also don't want a $1500 solution - this
isn't
> a $1500 problem.  $500 seems reasonable.
> 
I have some 'gadgets' that 'bridge' serial and ip, which though
not
that cheep (about 100$), opens a whole new perspective.

my 5 cents.

	danny

Karl Denninger wrote:
 
> What options do I have in the FreeBSD universe here guys?  This is a
> real no-BS production application that has hundreds of deployed instances,
> and it is in no way "obsolete" or something I intend to stop
supporting.
The following has worked fine for me for 3+ years.  I usually just go to
ebay and search on  "moxa 8 port" and buy some more when I need them. 
They
are PCI based, here's the output from my console server.   

puc0@pci0:2:0:  class=0x070002 card=0x00000000 chip=0x01801407 rev=0x00
hdr=0x00
    vendor   = 'Lava Computer Manufacturing Inc'
    device   = 'Lava Octopus PCI Ports 1-4'
    class    = simple comms
    subclass = UART
puc1@pci0:2:1:  class=0x070002 card=0x00000000 chip=0x01811407 rev=0x00
hdr=0x00
    vendor   = 'Lava Computer Manufacturing Inc'
    device   = 'Lava Octopus PCI Ports 5-8'
    class    = simple comms
    subclass = UART
puc2@pci0:4:0:  class=0x070080 card=0x00000000 chip=0x16801393 rev=0x02
hdr=0x00
    vendor   = 'Moxa Technologies Co Ltd'
    device   = 'C168H/PCI Smartio'
    class    = simple comms
    subclass = UART

puc0: <Lava Computers Octo A> port
0xecf8-0xecff,0xece8-0xecef,0xecd8-0xecdf,0xecc8-0xeccf irq 20 at device
2.0 on pci0
puc0: [FAST]
uart0: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
uart0: [FAST]
uart1: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
uart1: [FAST]
uart2: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
uart2: [FAST]
uart3: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
uart0: [FAST]
uart1: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
uart1: [FAST]
uart2: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
uart2: [FAST]
uart3: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
uart3: [FAST]
puc1: <Lava Computers Octo B> port
0xecf0-0xecf7,0xece0-0xece7,0xecd0-0xecd7,0xecc0-0xecc7 irq 20 at device
2.1 on pci0
puc1: [FAST]
uart4: <16550 or compatible> on puc1
uart4: [FAST]
uart5: <16550 or compatible> on puc1
uart5: [FAST]
uart6: <16550 or compatible> on puc1
uart6: [FAST]
uart7: <16550 or compatible> on puc1
uart7: [FAST]
puc2: <Moxa Technologies, C168H/PCI> port
0xec00-0xec7f,0xe8c0-0xe8ff,0xecb0-0xecbf irq 17 at device 4.0 on pci0
puc2: [FAST]
uart8: <16550 or compatible> on puc2
uart8: [FAST]
uart9: <16550 or compatible> on puc2
uart9: [FAST]
uart10: <16550 or compatible> on puc2
uart10: [FAST]
uart11: <16550 or compatible> on puc2
uart11: [FAST]
uart12: <16550 or compatible> on puc2
uart12: [FAST]
uart13: <16550 or compatible> on puc2
uart13: [FAST]
uart14: <16550 or compatible> on puc2
uart14: [FAST]
uart15: <16550 or compatible> on puc2
uart15: [FAST]

-- 
othermark
atkin901 at nospam dot yahoo dot com
(!wired)?(coffee++):(wired);

At 11:48 AM 10/10/2006, othermark wrote:
>uart0: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
>uart0: [FAST]
>uart1: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
BTW, why use uart instead of sio ?

         ---Mike

Mike Tancsa wrote:
> At 11:48 AM 10/10/2006, othermark wrote:
>>uart0: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
>>uart0: [FAST]
>>uart1: <16550 or compatible> on puc0
> 
> BTW, why use uart instead of sio ?
because the box runs on -current, which has switched to uart.  The box has
been running various instances of -current since 5-current however, so the
sio driver should still work fine.

-- 
othermark
atkin901 at nospam dot yahoo dot com
(!wired)?(coffee++):(wired);