>> How can I make fonts be rendered like, say, GTK1 does, that >> is without any anti-aliasing whatsoever but still keeping >> the main font "lines" clear. Simply turning AA off seems >> to produce "mushy" characters, definitely not what I was >> expecting.Unless you''re running Debian, you need to recompile your FreeType library (not the FreeType module in XFree86!) with #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER at line 382 of ftoption.h. Juliusz
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:36:36 -0400 Ambrose Li <acli@ada.dhs.org> wrote:> On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 10:19:30PM +0300, Ciprian Popovici > wrote: > > > How can I make fonts be rendered like, say, GTK1 does, that > > is without any anti-aliasing whatsoever but still keeping > > the main font "lines" clear. Simply turning AA off seems > > to produce "mushy" characters, definitely not what I was > > expecting. > > > > Please tell me if I''m not making sense, I will put some > > pictures up somewhere. :) > > Certainly you are making sense, but I don''t think you will > really want to do that. Also, you probably should have better > luck posting to the freetype or perhaps gtk list. > > If you really succeed to turn AA off completely, freetype2 > will use the X driver. It will, however, produce "deformed" > characters at small sizes. Also if you run the application > through a slow network connection, the application may be even > slower than when AA is turned on.I see what you mean. I''ve tried it with antialias=false, hinting=true and autohint=false, it''s the combination that produces the most bearable rendering without AA for small font dimensions. So what you''re saying, basically, is that all apps that use freetype2+fontconfig+xft will not be able to render fonts that look good without AA at small sizes? If so, it''s quite the opposite of what I was wishing for back when AA was still in diapers: no AA for small font sizes and AA for big font sizes. Is this even a fontconfig matter or should be addressed in freetype? -- Ciprian Popovici
On 09 Jul 2003 19:30:00 +0200 Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@pps.jussieu.fr> wrote:> >> How can I make fonts be rendered like, say, GTK1 does, that > >> is without any anti-aliasing whatsoever but still keeping > >> the main font "lines" clear. Simply turning AA off seems > >> to produce "mushy" characters, definitely not what I was > >> expecting. > > Unless you''re running Debian, you need to recompile your FreeType > library (not the FreeType module in XFree86!) with > #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER > at line 382 of ftoption.h.I am already doing that, thanks. -- Ciprian Popovici
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:00:02 -0700 Keith Packard <keithp@keithp.com> wrote:> Around 23 o''clock on Jul 9, Ciprian Popovici wrote: > > > So what you''re saying, basically, is that all apps that use > > freetype2+fontconfig+xft will not be able to render fonts that look > > good without AA at small sizes? > > You need decent fonts -- the freely available ''bitstream vera'' > typefaces work quite well down to 8 pixels without anti-aliasing as > long as you have the bytecode interpreter running. Below that, they > don''t have delta hints and so the shapes are pretty indistinct. > > > If so, it''s quite the opposite of what I was wishing for back when > > AA was still in diapers: no AA for small font sizes and AA for big > > font sizes. > > The AA used by FreeType (and hence Xft) performs hinting and then > anti-aliasing, so you get sharp edges where possible and smooth edges > otherwise. The results, especially on LCD screens are now preferred by > many people to non-AA text, especially at small sizes.I figured it out eventually and it was my fault: I had the ft-smooth patch applied over freetype 2.1.3 and I suspect it was never meant for non-AA; that''s what made fonts ugly at small sizes. Freetype 2.1.4 with the bytecode interpreter performs great with the AA off under size 12. AA off, hinting on, autohinter off for everything and the AA turned on again over 12. This is what I was looking for. -- Ciprian Popovici
On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 10:19:30PM +0300, Ciprian Popovici wrote:> How can I make fonts be rendered like, say, GTK1 does, that > is without any anti-aliasing whatsoever but still keeping > the main font "lines" clear. Simply turning AA off seems > to produce "mushy" characters, definitely not what I was > expecting. > > Please tell me if I''m not making sense, I will put some > pictures up somewhere. :)Certainly you are making sense, but I don''t think you will really want to do that. Also, you probably should have better luck posting to the freetype or perhaps gtk list. If you really succeed to turn AA off completely, freetype2 will use the X driver. It will, however, produce "deformed" characters at small sizes. Also if you run the application through a slow network connection, the application may be even slower than when AA is turned on. -- Ambrose LI Cheuk-Wing <a.c.li@ieee.org> http://ada.dhs.org/~acli/
On Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 11:54:12PM +0300, Ciprian Popovici wrote:> If so, it''s quite the opposite of what I was wishing for back > when AA was still in diapers: no AA for small font sizes and > AA for big font sizes.Based on my own experience, I do think that freetype2+fontconfig+xft will render fonts worse than freetype1 at small sizes if you turn off AA, unless I am shown that I am wrong.> Is this even a fontconfig matter or should be addressed in > freetype?This definitely is not a fontconfig issue; I think it is likely a freetype thing. Regards, -- Ambrose LI Cheuk-Wing <a.c.li@ieee.org> http://ada.dhs.org/~acli/
Around 23 o''clock on Jul 9, Ciprian Popovici wrote:> So what you''re saying, basically, is that all apps that use > freetype2+fontconfig+xft will not be able to render fonts that look good > without AA at small sizes?You need decent fonts -- the freely available ''bitstream vera'' typefaces work quite well down to 8 pixels without anti-aliasing as long as you have the bytecode interpreter running. Below that, they don''t have delta hints and so the shapes are pretty indistinct.> If so, it''s quite the opposite of what I was wishing for back when AA > was still in diapers: no AA for small font sizes and AA for big font > sizes.The AA used by FreeType (and hence Xft) performs hinting and then anti-aliasing, so you get sharp edges where possible and smooth edges otherwise. The results, especially on LCD screens are now preferred by many people to non-AA text, especially at small sizes. -keith
How can I make fonts be rendered like, say, GTK1 does, that is without any anti-aliasing whatsoever but still keeping the main font "lines" clear. Simply turning AA off seems to produce "mushy" characters, definitely not what I was expecting. Please tell me if I''m not making sense, I will put some pictures up somewhere. :) -- Ciprian Popovici