Fedora directory users - Jun 2005 - Messaging server

I know this is a little (lot?) off topic, but did Red Hat pick up the 
Netscape Messaging server in the purchase?  Any news on what will happen 
with that?

 - Jeff

jclowser@unitedmessaging.com wrote:
> I know this is a little (lot?) off topic, but did Red Hat pick up the 
> Netscape Messaging server in the purchase?  Any news on what will happen 
> with that?
Yep, we have it.  We haven''t figured out what (if anything)
we''re going
to do with it.

--Chris

Is there anything holding up open sourcing this?  Licensing issues with 
pmdf or something?  Does it compete with something else Red Hat is 
pushing as a messaging server?  I actually run a lot of Sun JES systems, 
and would love to be able to replace this with Red Hat boxes running an 
open source version of that server.  It''s actually a very good server, 
but Sun has introduced a lot of bugs into it, and I''m looking for 
alternatives (and would like to stick with what I know :)  ).

While I''ve got your ear, how about the Calendar Server? :)

 - Jeff

Christopher Blizzard wrote:
> jclowser@unitedmessaging.com wrote:
>
>> I know this is a little (lot?) off topic, but did Red Hat pick up the 
>> Netscape Messaging server in the purchase?  Any news on what will 
>> happen with that?
>
>
> Yep, we have it.  We haven''t figured out what (if anything)
we''re
> going to do with it.
>
> --Chris

jclowser@unitedmessaging.com wrote:
> While I''ve got your ear, how about the Calendar Server? :)

Oh dear god, not the Calendar Server...

-- leif

Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> jclowser@unitedmessaging.com wrote:
>
>> While I''ve got your ear, how about the Calendar Server? :)
>
>
>
> Oh dear god, not the Calendar Server...
Which one you thinking about ?

David Boreham wrote:
>
>>
>> Oh dear god, not the Calendar Server...
>
>
> Which one you thinking about ?

The one giving me the willies was called Corporate Time I think,  aka 
Netscape Calendar Server. It was a real piece of  ...

-- Leif

Hehe - I know it''s a bit of a bastard child, but what options are there
other than Exchange?

Apache/webdav
Local personal calendars (outlook, sunbird, etc)
OpenExchange
A number of open source webcals
A bunch of proprietary cal servers

I know this is completely off topic for the FDS list, but I don''t know 
of any good server based ldap integrated calendar solutions out there 
that allow fat clients, free/busy lookup, etc that compares to Exchange, 
and that often makes it really hard to convince people to accept a mail 
solution that is not Exchange, which in turn leads to AD as a directory 
service (my round about way to make it "on topic" :) )...

 - Jeff

Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> jclowser@unitedmessaging.com wrote:
>
>> While I''ve got your ear, how about the Calendar Server? :)
>
>
>
> Oh dear god, not the Calendar Server...
>
> -- leif

Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> David Boreham wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> Oh dear god, not the Calendar Server...
>>
>>
>>
>> Which one you thinking about ?
>
>
>
> The one giving me the willies was called Corporate Time I think,  aka 
> Netscape Calendar Server. It was a real piece of  ...

I don''t think we''re talking about that server.

There was another one (at least one, perhaps more) developed
later at Netscape and then iPlanet.

I''m sure they were better than Corporate Time.

jclowser@unitedmessaging.com wrote:
> Hehe - I know it''s a bit of a bastard child, but what options are 
> there other than Exchange?
>
> Apache/webdav
> Local personal calendars (outlook, sunbird, etc)
> OpenExchange
> A number of open source webcals
> A bunch of proprietary cal servers
>
> I know this is completely off topic for the FDS list, but I don''t
know
> of any good server based ldap integrated calendar solutions out there 
> that allow fat clients, free/busy lookup, etc that compares to 
> Exchange, and that often makes it really hard to convince people to 
> accept a mail solution that is not Exchange, which in turn leads to AD 
> as a directory service (my round about way to make it "on topic"
:) )...
You are exactly right.  Red Hat is trying to figure out what to do with 
those products.  We don''t want to just dump a pile of code on the OS 
community.  For one, the code has some third party stuff that we need to 
replace with OS components.  For another, these products are very hard 
to build outside the "walled garden".  Lastly, there have been some 
changes to standards and markets since these products were actively 
developed that need to be accounted for.  But you better believe that 
Red Hat knows how valuable these products could be to the market and the 
OS community.
>
> - Jeff
>
> Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>
>> jclowser@unitedmessaging.com wrote:
>>
>>> While I''ve got your ear, how about the Calendar Server? :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh dear god, not the Calendar Server...
>>
>> -- leif
>
>
> -- 
> Fedora-directory-users mailing list
> Fedora-directory-users@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-directory-users

Ah, yes 4.x - that became steltor, and is now Oracle Calendar server.  
Yes, it was a nightmare.  5.x and above were actually decent 
architecturally, but were mostly web based only.  Sun has an outlook 
plugin for their latest version of it, that works moderately well, but 
a) you have to use very recently patched versions of Windows and Outlook 
(but not too new), and b) you have to use outlook...

I''ve been hoping Sun or someone would write sunbird, evolution, etc 
plugins for it, but no luck so far (Sun has plugins for evolution, but 
getting them anywhere but on Sun''s JDS desktop seems next to 
impossible).  Without a real fat client, no one is interested in it, and 
no one has enough interest to write a fat client, it seems :)

If that calendar become open source, it might catch on enough to reach 
critical mass.  But...  this is a directory mailing list, so I''ll shut 
up about calendar now :)

 - Jeff

Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> David Boreham wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> Oh dear god, not the Calendar Server...
>>
>>
>>
>> Which one you thinking about ?
>
>
>
> The one giving me the willies was called Corporate Time I think,  aka 
> Netscape Calendar Server. It was a real piece of  ...
>
> -- Leif
>
> -- 
> Fedora-directory-users mailing list
> Fedora-directory-users@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-directory-users

On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 15:00 -0400, jclowser@unitedmessaging.com
wrote:
> Ah, yes 4.x - that became steltor, and is now Oracle Calendar server.  
> Yes, it was a nightmare.  5.x and above were actually decent 
> architecturally, but were mostly web based only.  Sun has an outlook 
> plugin for their latest version of it, that works moderately well, but 
> a) you have to use very recently patched versions of Windows and Outlook 
> (but not too new), and b) you have to use outlook...
> 
> I''ve been hoping Sun or someone would write sunbird, evolution,
etc
> plugins for it, but no luck so far (Sun has plugins for evolution, but 
> getting them anywhere but on Sun''s JDS desktop seems next to 
> impossible).  Without a real fat client, no one is interested in it, and 
> no one has enough interest to write a fat client, it seems :)
Is this the evolution-jescs code in GNOME CVS:
http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/evolution-jescs/

(Want to package it?  Maybe we should try to get this into Fedora
Extras?)
> 
> If that calendar become open source, it might catch on enough to reach 
> critical mass.  But...  this is a directory mailing list, so I''ll
shut
> up about calendar now :)
> 
>  - Jeff
> 
> Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> 
> > David Boreham wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Oh dear god, not the Calendar Server...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Which one you thinking about ?
> >
> >
> >
> > The one giving me the willies was called Corporate Time I think,  aka 
> > Netscape Calendar Server. It was a real piece of  ...
> >
> > -- Leif
> >
> > -- 
> > Fedora-directory-users mailing list
> > Fedora-directory-users@redhat.com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-directory-users
> 
> 
> --
> Fedora-directory-users mailing list
> Fedora-directory-users@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-directory-users

David Malcolm wrote:
>>I''ve been hoping Sun or someone would write sunbird, evolution,
etc
>>plugins for it, but no luck so far (Sun has plugins for evolution, but 
>>getting them anywhere but on Sun''s JDS desktop seems next to 
>>impossible).  Without a real fat client, no one is interested in it, and
>>no one has enough interest to write a fat client, it seems :)
>>    
>>
>Is this the evolution-jescs code in GNOME CVS:
>http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/evolution-jescs/
>
>(Want to package it?  Maybe we should try to get this into Fedora
>Extras?)
>  
>
Ahhh - Yes, please.  So that''s where it is :)

Hi, sorry for my delay in responding and continuing a slightly-OT
thread, but I just joined this list today.

Jeff, have you looked at Meeting Maker?  It fits the bill almost exactly
as you described.  I used it several years ago (it has been around for
over 10 years - well before Exchange) in a large environment, and
integrates nicely with LDAP:

http://www.MeetingMaker.com/products/meetingmaker/Modules/ldap.cfm

I would love to see Red Hat eventually further develop and support the
Calendar Server, but in the meantime, Meeting Maker is an excellent and
well-supported product that does not require Exchange.

Alan

On 6/14/2005 2:42 PM, jclowser@unitedmessaging.com wrote:
> Hehe - I know it''s a bit of a bastard child, but what options are
> there other than Exchange?
>
> Apache/webdav
> Local personal calendars (outlook, sunbird, etc)
> OpenExchange
> A number of open source webcals
> A bunch of proprietary cal servers
>
> I know this is completely off topic for the FDS list, but I don''t
know
> of any good server based ldap integrated calendar solutions out there
> that allow fat clients, free/busy lookup, etc that compares to
> Exchange, and that often makes it really hard to convince people to
> accept a mail solution that is not Exchange, which in turn leads to AD
> as a directory service (my round about way to make it "on topic"
:) )...
>
> - Jeff