I am happy to announce the release of eventmachine 0.12.4
This release contains numerous bug fixes and improvements provided by
the community:
- better development environment
- streamlined Rakefile for gem packaging, extension building and testing
- imported fastfilereader extension from swiftiply
- reactor improvements
- various pure-ruby reactor fixes
- improved java reactor compatibility
- increased client connect timeout (from 4s to 50s)
- use rb_thread_schedule() in epoll/kqueue reactors
- fix reactor latency issues with nanosleep in EM::popen
- catch and propagate signals to ruby in epoll/kqueue reactors
(fixes Ctrl+C bug)
- improved error handling
- raise more descriptive errors
- raise ruby RuntimeError instead of c++ exceptions
- full 1.9.0 and 1.9.1 compatibility
- use RARRAY_LEN, String#bytesize, and rb_thread_blocking_region
- API additions
- EM::cancel_timer is public
- EM.current_time returns the start of the current reactor tick
- EM.kqueue? and EM.epoll? to check for reactor support
- EM.start_server can be used to start both tcp and unix domain servers
- better protocol support
- protocols are autoloaded when first used
- stomp protocol and client example
- smtpserver bug fixes
- httpclient bug fixes and ssl support
The rdoc has been updated and is available at http://eventmachine.rubyforge.org/
Aman
On Feb 8, 2009, at 6:43 PM, Aman Gupta wrote:> I am happy to announce the release of eventmachine 0.12.4Yea! Many thanks to raggi, tmm, blackhed and all the other unsung heroes of EM! cr
wow that is awesome. It looks much better. Here''s my output with mingw: g++ -I. -I. -Ic:/ruby18/lib/ruby/1.8/i386-mingw32 -I. -DHAVE_WINDOWS_H -DHAVE_WINSOCK_H -D OS_WIN32 -D BUILD_FOR_RUBY -EHs -GR -D WITHOUT_SSL -g -O2 -c mapper.cpp mapper.cpp: In member function `void Mapper_t::Close()'': mapper.cpp:177: error: invalid conversion from `const void*'' to `void*'' mapper.cpp:177: error: initializing argument 1 of `BOOL UnmapViewOfFile(void*)'' g++.exe: unrecognized option `-EHs'' g++.exe: unrecognized option `-GR'' make: *** [mapper.o] Error 1 rake aborted! Command failed with status (2): [make...] (See full trace by running task with --trace) Gem files will remain installed in c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4 for inspection. Results logged to c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4/gem_make.out Thanks! -=r
Hmm, FYI: (OS X 10.5.6, Ruby 1.9.1p0, EventMachine 0.12.4) 1) Failure: default_test(TestKeyboardEvents) [tests/testem.rb:30]: No tests were specified. 107 tests, 166 assertions, 1 failures, 0 errors This prevents the gem from completely installing. On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Roger Pack <rogerpack2005 at gmail.com> wrote:> wow that is awesome. It looks much better. > > Here''s my output with mingw: > > > > g++ -I. -I. -Ic:/ruby18/lib/ruby/1.8/i386-mingw32 -I. -DHAVE_WINDOWS_H > -DHAVE_WINSOCK_H -D OS_WIN32 -D BUILD_FOR_RUBY -EHs -GR -D > WITHOUT_SSL -g -O2 -c mapper.cpp > mapper.cpp: In member function `void Mapper_t::Close()'': > mapper.cpp:177: error: invalid conversion from `const void*'' to `void*'' > mapper.cpp:177: error: initializing argument 1 of `BOOL > UnmapViewOfFile(void*)'' > g++.exe: unrecognized option `-EHs'' > g++.exe: unrecognized option `-GR'' > make: *** [mapper.o] Error 1 > rake aborted! > Command failed with status (2): [make...] > > (See full trace by running task with --trace) > > > Gem files will remain installed in > c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4 for inspection. > Results logged to > c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4/gem_make.out > > > Thanks! > -=r > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >-- Tony Arcieri medioh.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/eventmachine-talk/attachments/20090209/ded6389b/attachment.html>
What''s the output of ruby -rubygems -e ''p Gem.path'',
and where is the
gem actually installed?
The new Rakefile tries to detect the gem is being installed and skips the tests:
# If running under rubygems...
__DIR__ ||= File.expand_path(File.dirname(__FILE__))
if Gem.path.map{|path| Dir.chdir(path){ Dir.pwd } rescue path }.any?
{|path| %r(^#{Regexp.escape path}) =~ __DIR__}
task :default => :gem_build
Aman
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Tony Arcieri <tony at medioh.com>
wrote:> Hmm, FYI: (OS X 10.5.6, Ruby 1.9.1p0, EventMachine 0.12.4)
>
> 1) Failure:
> default_test(TestKeyboardEvents) [tests/testem.rb:30]:
> No tests were specified.
>
> 107 tests, 166 assertions, 1 failures, 0 errors
>
> This prevents the gem from completely installing.
>
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Roger Pack <rogerpack2005 at
gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> wow that is awesome. It looks much better.
>>
>> Here''s my output with mingw:
>>
>>
>>
>> g++ -I. -I. -Ic:/ruby18/lib/ruby/1.8/i386-mingw32 -I. -DHAVE_WINDOWS_H
>> -DHAVE_WINSOCK_H -D OS_WIN32 -D BUILD_FOR_RUBY -EHs -GR -D
>> WITHOUT_SSL -g -O2 -c mapper.cpp
>> mapper.cpp: In member function `void Mapper_t::Close()'':
>> mapper.cpp:177: error: invalid conversion from `const void*''
to `void*''
>> mapper.cpp:177: error: initializing argument 1 of `BOOL
>> UnmapViewOfFile(void*)''
>> g++.exe: unrecognized option `-EHs''
>> g++.exe: unrecognized option `-GR''
>> make: *** [mapper.o] Error 1
>> rake aborted!
>> Command failed with status (2): [make...]
>>
>> (See full trace by running task with --trace)
>>
>>
>> Gem files will remain installed in
>> c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4 for inspection.
>> Results logged to
>> c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4/gem_make.out
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -=r
>> _______________________________________________
>> Eventmachine-talk mailing list
>> Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk
>
>
>
> --
> Tony Arcieri
> medioh.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Eventmachine-talk mailing list
> Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk
>
Sounds like the ext/fastfilereader has some issues with mingw.. can you open a ticket on trac? Aman On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Roger Pack <rogerpack2005 at gmail.com> wrote:> wow that is awesome. It looks much better. > > Here''s my output with mingw: > > > > g++ -I. -I. -Ic:/ruby18/lib/ruby/1.8/i386-mingw32 -I. -DHAVE_WINDOWS_H > -DHAVE_WINSOCK_H -D OS_WIN32 -D BUILD_FOR_RUBY -EHs -GR -D > WITHOUT_SSL -g -O2 -c mapper.cpp > mapper.cpp: In member function `void Mapper_t::Close()'': > mapper.cpp:177: error: invalid conversion from `const void*'' to `void*'' > mapper.cpp:177: error: initializing argument 1 of `BOOL > UnmapViewOfFile(void*)'' > g++.exe: unrecognized option `-EHs'' > g++.exe: unrecognized option `-GR'' > make: *** [mapper.o] Error 1 > rake aborted! > Command failed with status (2): [make...] > > (See full trace by running task with --trace) > > > Gem files will remain installed in > c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4 for inspection. > Results logged to > c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4/gem_make.out > > > Thanks! > -=r > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >
Output of Gem.path is ["/opt/ruby1.9/lib/ruby1.9/gems/1.9.1"] Ruby 1.9 is installed in /opt/ruby1.9 On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Aman Gupta <themastermind1 at gmail.com>wrote:> What''s the output of ruby -rubygems -e ''p Gem.path'', and where is the > gem actually installed? > > The new Rakefile tries to detect the gem is being installed and skips the > tests: > > # If running under rubygems... > __DIR__ ||= File.expand_path(File.dirname(__FILE__)) > if Gem.path.map{|path| Dir.chdir(path){ Dir.pwd } rescue path }.any? > {|path| %r(^#{Regexp.escape path}) =~ __DIR__} > task :default => :gem_build > > Aman > > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Tony Arcieri <tony at medioh.com> wrote: > > Hmm, FYI: (OS X 10.5.6, Ruby 1.9.1p0, EventMachine 0.12.4) > > > > 1) Failure: > > default_test(TestKeyboardEvents) [tests/testem.rb:30]: > > No tests were specified. > > > > 107 tests, 166 assertions, 1 failures, 0 errors > > > > This prevents the gem from completely installing. > > > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Roger Pack <rogerpack2005 at gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> wow that is awesome. It looks much better. > >> > >> Here''s my output with mingw: > >> > >> > >> > >> g++ -I. -I. -Ic:/ruby18/lib/ruby/1.8/i386-mingw32 -I. -DHAVE_WINDOWS_H > >> -DHAVE_WINSOCK_H -D OS_WIN32 -D BUILD_FOR_RUBY -EHs -GR -D > >> WITHOUT_SSL -g -O2 -c mapper.cpp > >> mapper.cpp: In member function `void Mapper_t::Close()'': > >> mapper.cpp:177: error: invalid conversion from `const void*'' to `void*'' > >> mapper.cpp:177: error: initializing argument 1 of `BOOL > >> UnmapViewOfFile(void*)'' > >> g++.exe: unrecognized option `-EHs'' > >> g++.exe: unrecognized option `-GR'' > >> make: *** [mapper.o] Error 1 > >> rake aborted! > >> Command failed with status (2): [make...] > >> > >> (See full trace by running task with --trace) > >> > >> > >> Gem files will remain installed in > >> c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4 for inspection. > >> Results logged to > >> c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4/gem_make.out > >> > >> > >> Thanks! > >> -=r > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Eventmachine-talk mailing list > >> Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk > > > > > > > > -- > > Tony Arcieri > > medioh.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk > > > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >-- Tony Arcieri medioh.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/eventmachine-talk/attachments/20090209/fd48044a/attachment-0001.html>
Where was the gem unpacked? If it was under /opt/ruby1.9/lib/ruby1.9/gems/1.9.1, the tests shouldn''t have run. It''s also possible that the rake in your path is for a different ruby, so when rubygems invokes rake it ends up compiling for a different ruby. Something like PATH=`gem env | grep INSTALLATION | cut -d: -f 2`/gems/rake-*/bin:$PATH gem install eventmachine should work. Aman On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Tony Arcieri <tony at medioh.com> wrote:> Output of Gem.path is ["/opt/ruby1.9/lib/ruby1.9/gems/1.9.1"] > > Ruby 1.9 is installed in /opt/ruby1.9 > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Aman Gupta <themastermind1 at gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> What''s the output of ruby -rubygems -e ''p Gem.path'', and where is the >> gem actually installed? >> >> The new Rakefile tries to detect the gem is being installed and skips the >> tests: >> >> # If running under rubygems... >> __DIR__ ||= File.expand_path(File.dirname(__FILE__)) >> if Gem.path.map{|path| Dir.chdir(path){ Dir.pwd } rescue path }.any? >> {|path| %r(^#{Regexp.escape path}) =~ __DIR__} >> task :default => :gem_build >> >> Aman >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Tony Arcieri <tony at medioh.com> wrote: >> > Hmm, FYI: (OS X 10.5.6, Ruby 1.9.1p0, EventMachine 0.12.4) >> > >> > 1) Failure: >> > default_test(TestKeyboardEvents) [tests/testem.rb:30]: >> > No tests were specified. >> > >> > 107 tests, 166 assertions, 1 failures, 0 errors >> > >> > This prevents the gem from completely installing. >> > >> > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Roger Pack <rogerpack2005 at gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> wow that is awesome. It looks much better. >> >> >> >> Here''s my output with mingw: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> g++ -I. -I. -Ic:/ruby18/lib/ruby/1.8/i386-mingw32 -I. -DHAVE_WINDOWS_H >> >> -DHAVE_WINSOCK_H -D OS_WIN32 -D BUILD_FOR_RUBY -EHs -GR -D >> >> WITHOUT_SSL -g -O2 -c mapper.cpp >> >> mapper.cpp: In member function `void Mapper_t::Close()'': >> >> mapper.cpp:177: error: invalid conversion from `const void*'' to `void*'' >> >> mapper.cpp:177: error: initializing argument 1 of `BOOL >> >> UnmapViewOfFile(void*)'' >> >> g++.exe: unrecognized option `-EHs'' >> >> g++.exe: unrecognized option `-GR'' >> >> make: *** [mapper.o] Error 1 >> >> rake aborted! >> >> Command failed with status (2): [make...] >> >> >> >> (See full trace by running task with --trace) >> >> >> >> >> >> Gem files will remain installed in >> >> c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4 for inspection. >> >> Results logged to >> >> c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4/gem_make.out >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> -=r >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Eventmachine-talk mailing list >> >> Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org >> >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Tony Arcieri >> > medioh.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Eventmachine-talk mailing list >> > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org >> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Eventmachine-talk mailing list >> Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk > > > > -- > Tony Arcieri > medioh.com > > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Aman Gupta <themastermind1 at gmail.com> wrote:> Where was the gem unpacked? If it was under > /opt/ruby1.9/lib/ruby1.9/gems/1.9.1, the tests shouldn''t have run. >It was installed with "gem1.9 install eventmachine" and unpacked under /opt/ruby1.9/lib/ruby1.9/gems/1.9.1/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4/> It''s also possible that the rake in your path is for a different ruby,That''s quite likely the case. I configured Ruby 1.9 with --program-suffix=1.9 so all the programs are ruby1.9, irb1.9, gem1.9, rake1.9 etc.> so when rubygems invokes rake it ends up compiling for a different > ruby. Something like > > PATH=`gem env | grep INSTALLATION | cut -d: -f > 2`/gems/rake-*/bin:$PATH gem install eventmachine > > should work. >In my case I''d need it to invoke rake1.9 in lieu of rake... -- Tony Arcieri medioh.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/eventmachine-talk/attachments/20090209/7cfafb72/attachment.html>
On 9 Feb 2009, at 17:05, Roger Pack wrote:> wow that is awesome. It looks much better. > > Here''s my output with mingw: > > > > g++ -I. -I. -Ic:/ruby18/lib/ruby/1.8/i386-mingw32 -I. -DHAVE_WINDOWS_H > -DHAVE_WINSOCK_H -D OS_WIN32 -D BUILD_FOR_RUBY -EHs -GR -D > WITHOUT_SSL -g -O2 -c mapper.cpp > mapper.cpp: In member function `void Mapper_t::Close()'': > mapper.cpp:177: error: invalid conversion from `const void*'' to > `void*'' > mapper.cpp:177: error: initializing argument 1 of `BOOL > UnmapViewOfFile(void*)'' > g++.exe: unrecognized option `-EHs'' > g++.exe: unrecognized option `-GR'' > make: *** [mapper.o] Error 1 > rake aborted! > Command failed with status (2): [make...] > > (See full trace by running task with --trace) > > > Gem files will remain installed in > c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4 for inspection. > Results logged to > c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4/gem_make.outReplicated on our installer3 builds. I''ll need to fix this today anyway, so keep an eye on the git repo.> > > > Thanks! > -=r > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk
On 10 Feb 2009, at 00:59, Aman Gupta wrote:> Where was the gem unpacked? If it was under > /opt/ruby1.9/lib/ruby1.9/gems/1.9.1, the tests shouldn''t have run. > > It''s also possible that the rake in your path is for a different ruby, > so when rubygems invokes rake it ends up compiling for a different > ruby. Something like > > PATH=`gem env | grep INSTALLATION | cut -d: -f > 2`/gems/rake-*/bin:$PATH gem install eventmachineI recognise that line ;-) Patches for Gems need completing :-/> > > should work. > > Aman > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Tony Arcieri <tony at medioh.com> wrote: >> Output of Gem.path is ["/opt/ruby1.9/lib/ruby1.9/gems/1.9.1"] >> >> Ruby 1.9 is installed in /opt/ruby1.9 >> >> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Aman Gupta >> <themastermind1 at gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> What''s the output of ruby -rubygems -e ''p Gem.path'', and where is >>> the >>> gem actually installed? >>> >>> The new Rakefile tries to detect the gem is being installed and >>> skips the >>> tests: >>> >>> # If running under rubygems... >>> __DIR__ ||= File.expand_path(File.dirname(__FILE__)) >>> if Gem.path.map{|path| Dir.chdir(path){ Dir.pwd } rescue path }.any? >>> {|path| %r(^#{Regexp.escape path}) =~ __DIR__} >>> task :default => :gem_build >>> >>> Aman >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Tony Arcieri <tony at medioh.com> >>> wrote: >>>> Hmm, FYI: (OS X 10.5.6, Ruby 1.9.1p0, EventMachine 0.12.4) >>>> >>>> 1) Failure: >>>> default_test(TestKeyboardEvents) [tests/testem.rb:30]: >>>> No tests were specified. >>>> >>>> 107 tests, 166 assertions, 1 failures, 0 errors >>>> >>>> This prevents the gem from completely installing. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Roger Pack <rogerpack2005 at gmail.com >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> wow that is awesome. It looks much better. >>>>> >>>>> Here''s my output with mingw: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> g++ -I. -I. -Ic:/ruby18/lib/ruby/1.8/i386-mingw32 -I. - >>>>> DHAVE_WINDOWS_H >>>>> -DHAVE_WINSOCK_H -D OS_WIN32 -D BUILD_FOR_RUBY -EHs -GR -D >>>>> WITHOUT_SSL -g -O2 -c mapper.cpp >>>>> mapper.cpp: In member function `void Mapper_t::Close()'': >>>>> mapper.cpp:177: error: invalid conversion from `const void*'' to >>>>> `void*'' >>>>> mapper.cpp:177: error: initializing argument 1 of `BOOL >>>>> UnmapViewOfFile(void*)'' >>>>> g++.exe: unrecognized option `-EHs'' >>>>> g++.exe: unrecognized option `-GR'' >>>>> make: *** [mapper.o] Error 1 >>>>> rake aborted! >>>>> Command failed with status (2): [make...] >>>>> >>>>> (See full trace by running task with --trace) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gem files will remain installed in >>>>> c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4 for >>>>> inspection. >>>>> Results logged to >>>>> c:/ruby18/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/eventmachine-0.12.4/gem_make.out >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> -=r >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Eventmachine-talk mailing list >>>>> Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org >>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tony Arcieri >>>> medioh.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Eventmachine-talk mailing list >>>> Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org >>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Eventmachine-talk mailing list >>> Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org >>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >> >> >> >> -- >> Tony Arcieri >> medioh.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Eventmachine-talk mailing list >> Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >> > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk
Roger, If you have a few minutes, please pull from git://github.com/raggi/ eventmachine.git and try to rake build. If it works I''ll merge into trunk and it''ll be included in the next point release. Regards, James.
nice it seems to compile nicely. thanks! -=r On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:16 AM, James Tucker <jftucker at gmail.com> wrote:> Roger, > > If you have a few minutes, please pull from > git://github.com/raggi/eventmachine.git and try to rake build. > > If it works I''ll merge into trunk and it''ll be included in the next point > release. > > Regards, > > James. > > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >-- I wonder if the phrase "meeting my needs in the relationship" has a tinge of selfishness...