hi, ? tried to get ideas from Francis to propose for Summer of Code, but didn''t go well =), so trying again here. Is there any area to work on eventmachine you think will be useful for the project (which means not to be dumped at the end of 3 month period)? i have checked the Ruby Central page, but the ideas didn''t appeal to me and i can''t judge some of them (protocol parser generators DSLs for defining protocols,etc). so what do you think?
On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote:> > hi, > ? tried to get ideas from Francis to propose for Summer of Code, but > didn''t go well =), so trying again here. > > Is there any area to work on eventmachine you think will be useful > for the project (which means not to be dumped at the end of 3 month > period)? > > i have checked the Ruby Central page, but the ideas didn''t appeal to > me and i can''t judge some of them (protocol parser generators > DSLs for defining protocols,etc).Are you interested in doing a telnet and an FTP server? Bill Kelly already did a protocol implementation you could piggyback on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/eventmachine-talk/attachments/20070325/616bb717/attachment-0001.html
On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote:> > hi, > ? tried to get ideas from Francis to propose for Summer of Code, but > didn''t go well =), so trying again here.Also, you may have missed the deadline. Not sure about that. Pat approved me as a mentor, so if it''s not too late you should hurry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/eventmachine-talk/attachments/20070325/49664a39/attachment.html
On 3/25/07, Francis Cianfrocca <garbagecat10 at gmail.com> wrote:> On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote: > > hi, > > ? tried to get ideas from Francis to propose for Summer of Code, but > > didn''t go well =), so trying again here. > > > Also, you may have missed the deadline. Not sure about that. Pat approved me > as a mentor, so if it''s not too late you should hurry. >The deadline has been extented to March 27th, 12:00 AM UTC. I am glad that you will be mentoring.> Are you interested in doing a telnet and an FTP server? Bill Kelly already did a > protocol implementation you could piggyback on.ok, these are good for me. i was hoping for more *corish* ideas but grasping the basics seems more important and appropiate. thanks, i will shape my proposal around this.
On 3/25/07, Francis Cianfrocca <garbagecat10 at gmail.com> wrote:> On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote: > > hi, > > ? tried to get ideas from Francis to propose for Summer of Code, but > > didn''t go well =), so trying again here. > > > > Is there any area to work on eventmachine you think will be useful > > for the project (which means not to be dumped at the end of 3 month > > period)? > > > > i have checked the Ruby Central page, but the ideas didn''t appeal to > > me and i can''t judge some of them (protocol parser generators > > DSLs for defining protocols,etc). > > > Are you interested in doing a telnet and an FTP server? Bill Kelly already > did a protocol implementation you could piggyback on. >That looks too simple to me for 3 month summer of code project. what about the stuff, I talked about? But hey, I would also like to see some sorta integration of ragel and eventmachine for protocol code parsing. anyway, those are my two cents.
On 3/25/07, hemant <gethemant at gmail.com> wrote:> On 3/25/07, Francis Cianfrocca <garbagecat10 at gmail.com> wrote: > > On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote: > > > hi, > > > ? tried to get ideas from Francis to propose for Summer of Code, but > > > didn''t go well =), so trying again here. > > > > > > Is there any area to work on eventmachine you think will be useful > > > for the project (which means not to be dumped at the end of 3 month > > > period)? > > > > > > i have checked the Ruby Central page, but the ideas didn''t appeal to > > > me and i can''t judge some of them (protocol parser generators > > > DSLs for defining protocols,etc). > > > > > > Are you interested in doing a telnet and an FTP server? Bill Kelly already > > did a protocol implementation you could piggyback on. > > > > That looks too simple to me for 3 month summer of code project. what > about the stuff, I talked about?hi hemant, i can''t find what you suggested in the archives. can you write it again or point to the source?> > But hey, I would also like to see some sorta integration of ragel and > eventmachine for protocol code parsing. anyway, those are my two > cents.
That sounds completely awesome, especially now that Ragel can target Ruby - Tony On 3/25/07, hemant <gethemant at gmail.com> wrote:> > On 3/25/07, Francis Cianfrocca <garbagecat10 at gmail.com> wrote: > > On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote: > > > hi, > > > ? tried to get ideas from Francis to propose for Summer of Code, but > > > didn''t go well =), so trying again here. > > > > > > Is there any area to work on eventmachine you think will be useful > > > for the project (which means not to be dumped at the end of 3 month > > > period)? > > > > > > i have checked the Ruby Central page, but the ideas didn''t appeal to > > > me and i can''t judge some of them (protocol parser generators > > > DSLs for defining protocols,etc). > > > > > > Are you interested in doing a telnet and an FTP server? Bill Kelly > already > > did a protocol implementation you could piggyback on. > > > > That looks too simple to me for 3 month summer of code project. what > about the stuff, I talked about? > > But hey, I would also like to see some sorta integration of ragel and > eventmachine for protocol code parsing. anyway, those are my two > cents. > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >-- Tony Arcieri ClickCaster, Inc. tony at clickcaster.com (970) 232-4208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/eventmachine-talk/attachments/20070325/1e2ac5ac/attachment.html
On 3/25/07, Tony Arcieri <tony at clickcaster.com> wrote:> That sounds completely awesome, especially now that Ragel can target Ruby > > - Tony > > > On 3/25/07, hemant <gethemant at gmail.com > wrote: > > On 3/25/07, Francis Cianfrocca < garbagecat10 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > hi, > > > > ? tried to get ideas from Francis to propose for Summer of Code, but > > > > didn''t go well =), so trying again here. > > > > > > > > Is there any area to work on eventmachine you think will be useful > > > > for the project (which means not to be dumped at the end of 3 month > > > > period)? > > > > > > > > i have checked the Ruby Central page, but the ideas didn''t appeal to > > > > me and i can''t judge some of them (protocol parser generators > > > > DSLs for defining protocols,etc). > > > > > > > > > Are you interested in doing a telnet and an FTP server? Bill Kelly > already > > > did a protocol implementation you could piggyback on. > > > > > > > That looks too simple to me for 3 month summer of code project. what > > about the stuff, I talked about? > > > > But hey, I would also like to see some sorta integration of ragel and > > eventmachine for protocol code parsing. anyway, those are my two > > cents. > > _______________________________________________ > > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk > > > > > > -- > Tony Arcieri > ClickCaster, Inc. > tony at clickcaster.com > (970) 232-4208 > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >so what kind of integration are you talking about? let''s say i will build a ftp and telnet server (as Francis suggested). i still can use ragel and generate ftp and telnet protocol parsers, right? i _feel_ like you are talking about more generic parsers and integration, yet i can''t get it.
On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote:> On 3/25/07, Tony Arcieri <tony at clickcaster.com> wrote: > > That sounds completely awesome, especially now that Ragel can target Ruby > > > > - Tony > > > > > > On 3/25/07, hemant <gethemant at gmail.com > wrote: > > > On 3/25/07, Francis Cianfrocca < garbagecat10 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > hi, > > > > > ? tried to get ideas from Francis to propose for Summer of Code, but > > > > > didn''t go well =), so trying again here. > > > > > > > > > > Is there any area to work on eventmachine you think will be useful > > > > > for the project (which means not to be dumped at the end of 3 month > > > > > period)? > > > > > > > > > > i have checked the Ruby Central page, but the ideas didn''t appeal to > > > > > me and i can''t judge some of them (protocol parser generators > > > > > DSLs for defining protocols,etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you interested in doing a telnet and an FTP server? Bill Kelly > > already > > > > did a protocol implementation you could piggyback on. > > > > > > > > > > That looks too simple to me for 3 month summer of code project. what > > > about the stuff, I talked about? > > > > > > But hey, I would also like to see some sorta integration of ragel and > > > eventmachine for protocol code parsing. anyway, those are my two > > > cents. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > > > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > > > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Tony Arcieri > > ClickCaster, Inc. > > tony at clickcaster.com > > (970) 232-4208 > > _______________________________________________ > > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk > > > > so what kind of integration are you talking about? let''s say i will > build a ftp and telnet server (as Francis suggested). i still can use > ragel and generate ftp and telnet protocol parsers, right? > > i _feel_ like you are talking about more generic parsers and > integration, yet i can''t get it. >hi, i have 11 hours left for my proposal =), so more thoughts will be really appreciated.
On 3/26/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote:> > On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote: > > On 3/25/07, Tony Arcieri <tony at clickcaster.com> wrote: > > > That sounds completely awesome, especially now that Ragel can target > Ruby > > >I have to assume that Google will be making their choices based on what projects are of general interest, not just of narrow interest to Rubyists. So while it may be interesting to us to see Ruby versions of things that already exist elsewhere, it''s probably more to the point to look for things that Ruby+EM can do *better* than things that already exist. The more "core" ideas that spring to mind in regard to EM are: 1) Integrating filesystem, keyboard and GUI events into the EM main "reactor," so it''s more of a general event processor and less of a framework focused on network I/O. This would add capabilities of interest to game developers, and make EM a more complete competitor to Twisted. 2) Finally doing something with epoll and kqueue as Tony has long suggested. This would theoretically give EM more performance and scalability. Less "core" ideas would be: Developing a framework for a "Services Engine" that can be used by web applications (Rails or non-Rails) to access backend services like databases and messaging engines. People now use DRb for this (when they can get it working at all), but we can do better. Key to success here would be a graceful and extensible plug-in architecture. Also, I really want to see a full-featured message-queueing engine built on top of EM. I''d like to see the AMQP protocol used for this, but it may be just too much cruft. The Stomp protocol might be just good enough. And it would be a pretty interesting and useful summer project to built a messaging engine that could connect Ruby programs to enterprise messaging backbones (think Spring). All of this requires a person who is open-minded enough not to believe that Java is pure evil! Ruby will be much more valuable in corporate shops if it gracefully interoperates with the Java programs everyone else is writing. Asynchronous messaging is a beautiful approach to this problem, whereas JRuby is a totally different approach with very different goals. About Ragel: Someone may want to figure out the best way to write a protocol-framework where people could simply write Ragel specifications and them magically turn into Ruby code. To make this a full summer project, I''d add the goal of supporting the major protocols of importance: HTTP, SMTP, XMPP, SIP, RADIUS, possibly a few others. I''ll add this caveat, which is really a personal prejudice: I don''t believe application developers should be rolling their own protocols whenever they want. We ought to be encouraging (and supporting) standard protocols like HTTP/REST and XMPP. Now having said that, you may all disagree with me, which is cool. So if someone wants to do a Ragel project, I''d support it. Finally, in case I haven''t mentioned it, Pat has approved me as a mentor for SoC, so if you guys get your projects submitted (hurry!), I''ll help any way I can. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/eventmachine-talk/attachments/20070326/a95e229f/attachment-0001.html
> I have to assume that Google will be making their choices based on what > projects are of general interest, not just of narrow interest to Rubyists.Google doesn''t make the choices; the group of mentors does (I did it last year, but just don''t have time this year).> The more "core" ideas that spring to mind in regard to EM are: > 1) Integrating filesystem, keyboard and GUI events into the EM main > "reactor," so it''s more of a general event processor and less of a framework > focused on network I/O. This would add capabilities of interest to game > developers, and make EM a more complete competitor to Twisted. > > 2) Finally doing something with epoll and kqueue as Tony has long suggested. > This would theoretically give EM more performance and scalability.I personally find this one to be of greater interest.> Also, I really want to see a full-featured message-queueing engine built on > top of EM. I''d like to see the AMQP protocol used for this, but it may be > just too much cruft. The Stomp protocol might be just good enough. And itI''m very interested in this, too, and would love to unofficially work with someone on something like this. I sort of have 1/2 of a simple async messaging system built with my async logging service (which, if fate is good to me, will finally see a public release today), and I am pleased as punch with the speed a person can get using EM with pure ruby at both ends for the logging. I would think that a basic messaging service would be a lot like the logger, except that it is dispatching messages back out to N clients instead of a single log file.> would be a pretty interesting and useful summer project to built a messaging > engine that could connect Ruby programs to enterprise messaging backbones > (think Spring). All of this requires a person who is open-minded enough not > to believe that Java is pure evil! Ruby will be much more valuable in > corporate shops if it gracefully interoperates with the Java programs > everyone else is writing. Asynchronous messaging is a beautiful approach to > this problem, whereas JRuby is a totally different approach with very > different goals.I concur. It is a problem that is interesting enough to me that I might take it on myself if it doesn''t become a summer of code project, and if it does, I''d like to (unofficially) assist. Kirk Haines
On 3/26/07, Francis Cianfrocca <garbagecat10 at gmail.com> wrote:> On 3/26/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote: > > On 3/25/07, Selem <necrodome at gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 3/25/07, Tony Arcieri <tony at clickcaster.com> wrote: > > > > That sounds completely awesome, especially now that Ragel can target > Ruby > > > > > > > I have to assume that Google will be making their choices based on what > projects are of general interest, not just of narrow interest to Rubyists. > So while it may be interesting to us to see Ruby versions of things that > already exist elsewhere, it''s probably more to the point to look for things > that Ruby+EM can do *better* than things that already exist. > > The more "core" ideas that spring to mind in regard to EM are: > 1) Integrating filesystem, keyboard and GUI events into the EM main > "reactor," so it''s more of a general event processor and less of a framework > focused on network I/O. This would add capabilities of interest to game > developers, and make EM a more complete competitor to Twisted. > > 2) Finally doing something with epoll and kqueue as Tony has long suggested. > This would theoretically give EM more performance and scalability. >i am passing these.> Less "core" ideas would be: > > Developing a framework for a "Services Engine" that can be used by web > applications (Rails or non-Rails) to access backend services like databases > and messaging engines. People now use DRb for this (when they can get it > working at all), but we can do better. Key to success here would be a > graceful and extensible plug-in architecture. > > Also, I really want to see a full-featured message-queueing engine built on > top of EM. I''d like to see the AMQP protocol used for this, but it may be > just too much cruft. The Stomp protocol might be just good enough. And it > would be a pretty interesting and useful summer project to built a messaging > engine that could connect Ruby programs to enterprise messaging backbones > (think Spring). All of this requires a person who is open-minded enough not > to believe that Java is pure evil! Ruby will be much more valuable in > corporate shops if it gracefully interoperates with the Java programs > everyone else is writing. Asynchronous messaging is a beautiful approach to > this problem, whereas JRuby is a totally different approach with very > different goals.what about stompserver? (http://stompserver.rubyforge.org/). and what about ruby clients that uses Stomp to communicate with ActiveMQ or other supporting messaging engines?> > > About Ragel: Someone may want to figure out the best way to write a > protocol-framework where people could > simply write Ragel specifications and them magically turn into Ruby code. > To make this a full summer project, I''d add the goal of supporting the major > protocols of importance: HTTP, SMTP, XMPP, SIP, RADIUS, possibly a few > others. > > I''ll add this caveat, which is really a personal prejudice: I don''t believe > application developers should be rolling their own protocols whenever they > want. We ought to be encouraging (and supporting) standard protocols like > HTTP/REST and XMPP. Now having said that, you may all disagree with me, > which is cool. So if someone wants to do a Ragel project, I''d support it. >> Finally, in case I haven''t mentioned it, Pat has approved me as a mentor for > SoC, so if you guys get your projects submitted (hurry!), I''ll help any way > I can.> > _______________________________________________ > Eventmachine-talk mailing list > Eventmachine-talk at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/eventmachine-talk >
Francis Cianfrocca wrote:> > 1) Integrating filesystem, keyboard and GUI events into the > EM main "reactor," so it''s more of a general event processor > and less of a framework focused on network I/O. This would > add capabilities of interest to game developers, and make EM > a more complete competitor to Twisted.Just some random thoughts... I''m working (slowly) on GUI event integration, sort of. Although, my current implementation polls the GUI event queue at 60Hz. Also, my current implementation for the GUI is completely C-based and OpenGL-based. It acts as a window server; all my ruby code is in a separate process, which tells the C-based window server what to do. Both sides use EventMachine. Essentially i took a "pragmatic" approach as far as integrating GUI events into EM. I didn''t want to modify EM itself, so I can''t say what I''ve currently done is really integration, more like cohabitation. So if anyone wanted to pick up true EM/GUI integration as an SoC project, I''d gladly share what little code I have so far, in case some of it is useful as a starting point. Another random thought... I''ve recently gained experience with dynamically creating native GUI widgets in a cross-platform application. (Currently runs on Win32 and OS X.) Previously we''d already developed a way to "shunt" MFC dialogs over to OS X / Cocoa without needing to write two separate applications; but it was still tedious, having to layout the dialog twice, and ... well anyway... it was still a real PITA. This new system is ruby-based (unfortunately closed source; I don''t have any say in that). But it is so much nicer. I can now just create and layout native GUI widgets from ruby. Write the code once, and it works on OS X and Win32. Now, I''m not sure where actually *creating* native widgets falls in with respect to EventMachine. (I recently realized it''s even possible to overlay native widgets on top of a fully OpenGL background. Which might have interesting possibilities for some apps.) Anyway, I guess I''m just saying it turns out not to be all that hard to dynamically create and layout native widgets from ruby. So in addition to integrating GUI *events* into EM, maybe there''s the possibility to develop a companion library that makes use of the GUI event integration, to actually allow the creation of native widgets. I wish I could release the source for what I developed, but I don''t own it. But I can certainly help out with how to accomplish it if anyone were interested. Regards, Bill