dovecot - Oct 2020 - Version controlled (git) Maildir generated by Dovecot

Hi David,

I've never heard about such feature in LibreOffice. Thank you for letting me
know.

I don't really see myself using the feature since I'd have to remember
it. I'm used to store all sort of stuff / binary files in git. My rule of
thumb is that if the file is bellow 10M, just add/commit it. Is it proper way of
using git? No. Does it work? Yes ;-).

I think that the difference between us is that I'm used to use git for
everything and you aren't which means neither you or I are correct ;-).

Kind regards,
Adam

---------- P?vodn? e-mail ----------
Od: David Myers <david.myers.24j74 at gmail.com>
Komu: Adam <adam.ranek at seznam.cz>
Datum: 7. 10. 2020 10:05:28
P?edm?t: Re: Version controlled (git) Maildir generated by
Dovecot
> Hello Adam,
> 
> thanks for the reply. Sounds fair enough to me. I hadn't thought about
that last benefit of git. I haven't deleted anything off my pc for years ...
still got HDD from 15 years ago with 'something' on them ?
> 
> Sorry this is going to go off topic somewhat .... (ok, I've just read
it again... its gone off topic a lot... again, apologies for that)
> 
> 
> One more question, if you are using exclusively LibreOffice, I understand
it
> has a mode where it will separate the file into its constituent flat, text
XML
> files (style, contents, formatting etc), all of which can then be stored in
git
> with all the advantages that privides, no binary files needed. Do you use
this
> functionality ? I haven't done this so I don't know how it impacts
the work flow
> for a user, or how it will integrate into a git workflow, but would be
> interested to hear a user experience. I just use the inbuilt
'versioning' that
> is available within libreoffice (much better than multiple copies of the
same
> file with just a few changes).
> 
> Hopefully my last set of 'novice questions' ;)
> 
> thanks in advance.
> 
> David
> 
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:41 AM Adam <adam.ranek at seznam.cz> wrote:
> Hi David, 
> 
> Please find answers bellow.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Adam
> 
> ---------- P?vodn? e-mail ----------
> Od: David Myers <david.myers.24j74 at gmail.com>
> Komu: Adam <adam.ranek at seznam.cz>, Dovecot Mailing List
<dovecot at dovecot.org>
> Datum: 7. 10. 2020 8:44:28
> P?edm?t: Re: Version controlled (git) Maildir generated by Dovecot
> Hello Adam, and the dovecot list
> 
> > Just a question, I hate to pollute the thread, so feel free to push
these
> > questions into a new thread if deemed necessary. So as you can guess
I'm a bit
> > of a newb here, so rather obvious questions are about to arrive....
> > 
> > As you are using GIT for your archive (which is a cool idea by the
way) I'm
> > sure you are well aware that not all files types play nicely with
version
> > control, my question therefore is : How do you plan to handle
attachments ?
> 
> I use git for everything including for example LibreOffice / Word
documents. Git works just fine with binary files. You can't use text tools
like "git diff" but... it works.
> 
> > Also, although I appreciate the idea of using git, emails generally
don't
> > 'change', but I guess that also depends on how you are storing
them (single
> > email with links to previous / next ... etc, or as a single big file
for each
> > specific thread). Although this is hitting my limits of understanding
for how
> > dovecot works, so I probably need educating on this (a pointer to the
docs would
> > be good).
> 
> As I mentioned in the first e-mail, I configured Dovecot to use Maildir
format -> each e-mail is a single text file. Mail body + attachment(s) are in
the same file, attachment(s) are Base64 encoded.
> 
> > You seem concerned regarding the files that you are ignoring that you
will need
> > to 'recreate them', so why not do a complete git add . prior
to adding them into
> > the git ignore, then you have an initial state for those files too.
> 
> But I don't want to store files that can be regenerated. I don't
want to backup stuff, that doesn't have information value.
> 
> > Final thought, what advantage do you envisage by using git as opposed
to simply
> > using a filter to select the files over a certain age, and place them
into a
> > zipped TAR archive ? Although I guess you could eventually zip the git
archive
> > too, and in the interim it would remain searchable by your users mail
clients
> > whilt in git.
> 
> I like to use git ;-). Tar will work just fine.
> 
> In this use case the only real benefit of git is that it never forgets.
Unless I delete whole .git directory, I can make a mistake, delete some e-mails
(files), commit changes and rollback. I can't rollback if I delete tar
archive.
> 
> > Thanks in advance, and apologies once again for polluting your
question with my
> > own.

My 5 cents:
Git is REVISION control, It make sense to use it if files are modified.
Email is static files so it's better to use any backup system with
archiving capabilities (gzip or similar). It provide ability to copy
partially or just some old years to another HDD that is not possible
with git.
Also you can archive by dsync to that new server with account on mdbox
account with gzip compression. That will save space and gives you full
access to all email.

P.S. there are many options to choose. I use borg to backup
everything, including email and mdbox format with separate folder for
attachments that deduplicate attachments on backups and in filesystem.


On Wed, 07 Oct 2020 12:31:44 +0200 (CEST)
Adam <adam.ranek at seznam.cz> wrote:

Thank you Vitalii.

Could you please tell me / do you know if those dovecot* files have to be also
backed / archived?

Kind regards,

Adam
> ---------- P?vodn? e-mail ----------
> Od: Vitalii <vnagara at yandex.com>
> Komu: Adam <adam.ranek at seznam.cz>
> Datum: 7. 10. 2020 12:04:11
> P?edm?t: Re: Version controlled (git) Maildir generated by Dovecot
> My 5 cents:
> Git is REVISION control, It make sense to use it if files are modified.
> Email is static files so it's better to use any backup system with
> archiving capabilities (gzip or similar). It provide ability to copy
> partially or just some old years to another HDD that is not possible
> with git.
> Also you can archive by dsync to that new server with account on mdbox
> account with gzip compression. That will save space and gives you full
> access to all email.
> 
> P.S. there are many options to choose. I use borg to backup
> everything, including email and mdbox format with separate folder for
> attachments that deduplicate attachments on backups and in filesystem.

Adam,

Just for completions sake, and in case someone else comes here in the
future;

This is a link to the current (2020 LO 7) wiki page describing the XML
format
<https://help.libreoffice.org/7.0/en-GB/text/shared/00/00000021.html?&DbPAR=WRITER&System=UNIX>
.

However it doesn't mention about being able to save a document directly as
its constituent XML docs ??? so maybe the function has been removed, I have
miss remembered, or I am going mad (I vote for the 4th option ;) ).

David



On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:31 PM Adam <adam.ranek at seznam.cz> wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> I've never heard about such feature in LibreOffice. Thank you for
letting
> me know.
>
> I don't really see myself using the feature since I'd have to
remember it.
> I'm used to store all sort of stuff / binary files in git. My rule of
thumb
> is that if the file is bellow 10M, just add/commit it. Is it proper way of
> using git? No. Does it work? Yes ;-).
>
> I think that the difference between us is that I'm used to use git for
> everything and you aren't which means neither you or I are correct ;-).
>
> Kind regards,
> Adam
>
> ---------- P?vodn? e-mail ----------
> Od: David Myers <david.myers.24j74 at gmail.com>
> Komu: Adam <adam.ranek at seznam.cz>
> Datum: 7. 10. 2020 10:05:28
> P?edm?t: Re: Version controlled (git) Maildir generated by Dovecot
> > Hello Adam,
> >
> > thanks for the reply. Sounds fair enough to me. I hadn't thought
about
> that last benefit of git. I haven't deleted anything off my pc for
years
> ... still got HDD from 15 years ago with 'something' on them ?
> >
> > Sorry this is going to go off topic somewhat .... (ok, I've just
read it
> again... its gone off topic a lot... again, apologies for that)
> >
> >
> > One more question, if you are using exclusively LibreOffice, I
> understand it
> > has a mode where it will separate the file into its constituent flat,
> text XML
> > files (style, contents, formatting etc), all of which can then be
stored
> in git
> > with all the advantages that privides, no binary files needed. Do you
> use this
> > functionality ? I haven't done this so I don't know how it
impacts the
> work flow
> > for a user, or how it will integrate into a git workflow, but would be
> > interested to hear a user experience. I just use the inbuilt
> 'versioning' that
> > is available within libreoffice (much better than multiple copies of
the
> same
> > file with just a few changes).
> >
> > Hopefully my last set of 'novice questions' ;)
> >
> > thanks in advance.
> >
> > David
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:41 AM Adam <adam.ranek at seznam.cz>
wrote:
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Please find answers bellow.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Adam
> >
> > ---------- P?vodn? e-mail ----------
> > Od: David Myers <david.myers.24j74 at gmail.com>
> > Komu: Adam <adam.ranek at seznam.cz>, Dovecot Mailing List <
> dovecot at dovecot.org>
> > Datum: 7. 10. 2020 8:44:28
> > P?edm?t: Re: Version controlled (git) Maildir generated by Dovecot
> > Hello Adam, and the dovecot list
> >
> > > Just a question, I hate to pollute the thread, so feel free to
push
> these
> > > questions into a new thread if deemed necessary. So as you can
guess
> I'm a bit
> > > of a newb here, so rather obvious questions are about to
arrive....
> > >
> > > As you are using GIT for your archive (which is a cool idea by
the
> way) I'm
> > > sure you are well aware that not all files types play nicely with
> version
> > > control, my question therefore is : How do you plan to handle
> attachments ?
> >
> > I use git for everything including for example LibreOffice / Word
> documents. Git works just fine with binary files. You can't use text
tools
> like "git diff" but... it works.
> >
> > > Also, although I appreciate the idea of using git, emails
generally
> don't
> > > 'change', but I guess that also depends on how you are
storing them
> (single
> > > email with links to previous / next ... etc, or as a single big
file
> for each
> > > specific thread). Although this is hitting my limits of
understanding
> for how
> > > dovecot works, so I probably need educating on this (a pointer to
the
> docs would
> > > be good).
> >
> > As I mentioned in the first e-mail, I configured Dovecot to use
Maildir
> format -> each e-mail is a single text file. Mail body + attachment(s)
are
> in the same file, attachment(s) are Base64 encoded.
> >
> > > You seem concerned regarding the files that you are ignoring that
you
> will need
> > > to 'recreate them', so why not do a complete git add .
prior to adding
> them into
> > > the git ignore, then you have an initial state for those files
too.
> >
> > But I don't want to store files that can be regenerated. I
don't want to
> backup stuff, that doesn't have information value.
> >
> > > Final thought, what advantage do you envisage by using git as
opposed
> to simply
> > > using a filter to select the files over a certain age, and place
them
> into a
> > > zipped TAR archive ? Although I guess you could eventually zip
the git
> archive
> > > too, and in the interim it would remain searchable by your users
mail
> clients
> > > whilt in git.
> >
> > I like to use git ;-). Tar will work just fine.
> >
> > In this use case the only real benefit of git is that it never
forgets.
> Unless I delete whole .git directory, I can make a mistake, delete some
> e-mails (files), commit changes and rollback. I can't rollback if I
delete
> tar archive.
> >
> > > Thanks in advance, and apologies once again for polluting your
> question with my
> > > own.
>
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Hi all!

On 07/10/2020 14:45, David Myers wrote:
[...] 
> Just for completions sake, and in case someone else comes here in the
future;
+1!
> This is a link to the current (2020 LO 7) wiki page describing the XML
format
<https://help.libreoffice.org/7.0/en-GB/text/shared/00/00000021.html?&DbPAR=WRITER&System=UNIX>.
> 
> However it doesn't mention about being able to save a document directly
as its constituent XML docs ??? so maybe the function has been removed, I have
miss remembered, or I am going mad (I vote for the 4th option ;) ).
In e.g. localc, you can "save as" an select at the bottom
right "Flat XML ODF Spreadsheet (.fods)".

The same exists in lowriter (and very probably in all
others - I didn't use them up to now).

Mfg,
	Bernd
-- 
There is no cloud, just other people computers.
-- https://static.fsf.org/nosvn/stickers/thereisnocloud.svg
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