On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:11:45 +0100 Jochen Bern <Jochen.Bern at binect.de> wrote:> On 11/17/2016 08:48 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > > When I use an email client, its purpose is as a window into my > > Dovecot IMAP, and as a mechanism to reply to and send emails. I > > don't do filtering or calendaring on my email client (filtering via > > procmail direct to Dovecot). > > > > What email clients are all of you using to look at your IMAP > > email? > > Plaintext or HTML mails?I like the ability to see some sort of representation of the links in incoming HTML email. I would never send HTML email.> OpenPGP?I don't use that today, but probably will in the future.> S/MIME?Not necessary.> Do you like to see your > e-mails arranged into threads, or just sorted by some property (be > that sender, date, or whatever)?I could live without the ability to thread. It seems to not work right, probably because of various senders' misuse. When I want to look at a thread, I usually just sort on subject.> What's your archiving system, many > or few folders, flat or hierarchical?Archiving is achieved in my Dovecot Maildir tree. For fast moving folders like INBOX and my local LUG (GoLUG), every year I move this year's messages to, for instance, OLDFOLDERS->GoLUG->2015. I have somewhere between 75 and 200 folders, and tend to go about 4 levels deep in the hierarchy, although most of my most active folders are 1 level down from the account itself. For backup, I use rsync to a backup server, and back up the whole Dovecot tree.> Do you work remote,Sometimes. Through a pinhole in my firewall, via dynamic dns.> how good's > the connection to the IMAP server,Varies.> do you need the capability to work > on a local cache while the server cannot be reached ("detached IMAP", > I've seen it called)?No. If I can't do email at a particular time, I'll go somewhere else where I can.> > I switched from tkRat (a.k.a. ratatosk) to Thunderbird when I had a > need to do "detached IMAP" (and tkRat repeatedly trashed my entire > INBOX when I tried).Did the corruption happen when you messed with it to try to work offline, or do you mean that usage during failure to connect caused corruption? Did it corrupt the IMAP you were trying to connect to, or just a cache?> tkRat had interesting features (preselected > primary archive folder per folder you're reading, "folders" that > actually are views of a local database, minimalistic enough to bridge > the distance with X11 instead of IMAP), but hasn't seen further > development in ages. > > With Thunderbird,Here's why I can't use Thunderbird: [slitt at mydesk Maildir]$ find ~/mail/Maildir | wc -l 625262 [slitt at mydesk Maildir]$ find ~/mail/Maildir -type d | wc -l 1241 [slitt at mydesk Maildir]$ I have over 620K emails in over 1000 folders. This turns Thunderbird into an all day affair, just to refresh its caches. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt November 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz
Really old, but works well with Dovecot, doesn't cache a lot, and probably would work real well is: mulberry http://www.mulberrymail.com Yes, it's dated, but still runs :) On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com> wrote:> On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:11:45 +0100 > Jochen Bern <Jochen.Bern at binect.de> wrote: > > > On 11/17/2016 08:48 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > > > When I use an email client, its purpose is as a window into my > > > Dovecot IMAP, and as a mechanism to reply to and send emails. I > > > don't do filtering or calendaring on my email client (filtering via > > > procmail direct to Dovecot). > > > > > > What email clients are all of you using to look at your IMAP > > > email? > > > > Plaintext or HTML mails? > > I like the ability to see some sort of representation of the links in > incoming HTML email. I would never send HTML email. > > > OpenPGP? > > I don't use that today, but probably will in the future. > > > > S/MIME? > > Not necessary. > > > Do you like to see your > > e-mails arranged into threads, or just sorted by some property (be > > that sender, date, or whatever)? > > I could live without the ability to thread. It seems to not work right, > probably because of various senders' misuse. When I want to look at a > thread, I usually just sort on subject. > > > What's your archiving system, many > > or few folders, flat or hierarchical? > > Archiving is achieved in my Dovecot Maildir tree. For fast moving > folders like INBOX and my local LUG (GoLUG), every year I move this > year's messages to, for instance, OLDFOLDERS->GoLUG->2015. I have > somewhere between 75 and 200 folders, and tend to go about 4 levels deep > in the hierarchy, although most of my most active folders are 1 level > down from the account itself. For backup, I use rsync to a backup > server, and back up the whole Dovecot tree. > > > Do you work remote, > > Sometimes. Through a pinhole in my firewall, via dynamic dns. > > > how good's > > the connection to the IMAP server, > > Varies. > > > do you need the capability to work > > on a local cache while the server cannot be reached ("detached IMAP", > > I've seen it called)? > > No. If I can't do email at a particular time, I'll go somewhere else > where I can. > > > > > I switched from tkRat (a.k.a. ratatosk) to Thunderbird when I had a > > need to do "detached IMAP" (and tkRat repeatedly trashed my entire > > INBOX when I tried). > > Did the corruption happen when you messed with it to try to work > offline, or do you mean that usage during failure to connect caused > corruption? Did it corrupt the IMAP you were trying to connect to, or > just a cache? > > > tkRat had interesting features (preselected > > primary archive folder per folder you're reading, "folders" that > > actually are views of a local database, minimalistic enough to bridge > > the distance with X11 instead of IMAP), but hasn't seen further > > development in ages. > > > > With Thunderbird, > > Here's why I can't use Thunderbird: > > [slitt at mydesk Maildir]$ find ~/mail/Maildir | wc -l > 625262 > [slitt at mydesk Maildir]$ find ~/mail/Maildir -type d | wc -l > 1241 > [slitt at mydesk Maildir]$ > > I have over 620K emails in over 1000 folders. This turns Thunderbird > into an all day affair, just to refresh its caches. > > Thanks, > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > November 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business > http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz >-- Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler Phone: +1 214-642-9640 (c) E-Mail: larryrtx at gmail.com US Mail: 17716 Limpia Crk, Round Rock, TX 78664-7281
On 11/17/2016 04:58 PM, Steve Litt wrote:> On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:11:45 +0100 Jochen Bern <Jochen.Bern at binect.de> wrote: >> Plaintext or HTML mails? > > I like the ability to see some sort of representation of the links in > incoming HTML email. I would never send HTML email.Not quite sure what you mean with "representation" of links ... in most cases of *human typed* HTML e-mails, there's a MIME multipart/alternative text/plain part where links' URLs appear as part of the text. However, generating the plaintext part is done by the *senders'* MUAs, your own merely decides over whether the URL is recognized as such and made *clickable*, rather than needing to be copy-pasted into your browser.>> I switched from tkRat (a.k.a. ratatosk) to Thunderbird when I had a >> need to do "detached IMAP" (and tkRat repeatedly trashed my entire >> INBOX when I tried). > > Did the corruption happen when you messed with it to try to work > offline, or do you mean that usage during failure to connect caused > corruption? Did it corrupt the IMAP you were trying to connect to, or > just a cache?It had official support for the setup (might even be where I saw the term "detached IMAP"). Never had a problem with it and the original (online) IMAP mode, but within ... a little less than a year IIRC after switching, I found the server-side INBOX *completely empty* thrice. (While being connected to the server, of course.)> I have over 620K emails in over 1000 folders. This turns Thunderbird > into an all day affair, just to refresh its caches.Yeah, I can see that. I'm at about 1/6 of that, thanks to moving busy folders' back-years *off* the IMAP server and into Thunderbird-style "Local Folders" (which then can be copied to several places, as they supposedly do not *change* anymore). Takes TB a couple hours to resync when the cache has a problem - luckily, it does so in the background, and I tend to spend entire workdays sitting in just *one* place. Note that TB *does* have controls to limit the local cache by age and message size, though. And that you can disable the local cache on a folder-by-folder basis. Kind regards, -- Jochen Bern Systemingenieur Fon: +49 6151 9067-231 Fax: +49 6151 9067-290 E-Mail: jochen.bern at binect.de -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4278 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: <http://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/attachments/20161117/c07f14b0/attachment.p7s>
On 11/17/2016 10:58 AM, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com> wrote:> I have over 620K emails in over 1000 folders. This turns Thunderbird > into an all day affair, just to refresh its caches.There are lots of knobs you can tweak to improve the situation, but the bottom line is - 1,000 folders (really?!?), 650,000 emails - well... this is going to be a problem for almost any client.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 18 Nov 2016, Tanstaafl wrote:> On 11/17/2016 10:58 AM, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com> wrote: >> I have over 620K emails in over 1000 folders. This turns Thunderbird >> into an all day affair, just to refresh its caches. > > There are lots of knobs you can tweak to improve the situation, but the > bottom line is - 1,000 folders (really?!?), 650,000 emails - well... > this is going to be a problem for almost any client.That is actually the area, in which a non-caching client (pine, mutt) is playing well, if there is a stable connection to the server. Some time ago, I read an article about the following setup: 1) external mail server - no matter which 2) local Dovecot and MTA - actually on some notebook or behind some slow link 3) a cron job that performs a two-way sync with the external server, if the link available 4) the user works locally only - -- Steffen Kaiser -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEVAwUBWC8DU3z1H7kL/d9rAQINRAf+KTL+BwPS+3oMXnCaY0rWFLfU3Qq/r16h vZZajqmbfirmBtklWLsDKV3aLA+DdMoFPXTzYf69PUdc4zslgv3BO7whPGRy0AY7 lao5MPWGUWkyltT62nuQqy4rMoP/FAk/pogiLWh2xapgR1wCQcD7XncxkdAb+IQY OqP13nfLXuyD6DUYwq/NpGViOC/HqHEUHW0WXdXaLhJpMjHqyKc6pn6HpyZyI6ya gSEIPsrAKK/HppcSXBOzYVkJKwc1zZvWG+sRRB5IxetlSzfaWr7XguhAos7HF2Aa N3cKsStXIBSjPMFNWmgl2bnkwKbOVjO/4lacmP7ehY4K3bJXuuMOHQ==PufZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 08:14:02 -0500 Tanstaafl <tanstaafl at libertytrek.org> wrote:> On 11/17/2016 10:58 AM, Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com> wrote: > > I have over 620K emails in over 1000 folders. This turns Thunderbird > > into an all day affair, just to refresh its caches. > > There are lots of knobs you can tweak to improve the situation, but > the bottom line is - 1,000 folders (really?!?), 650,000 emails - > well... this is going to be a problem for almost any client.It wasn't a problem for Kmail, before the disastrous conversion to Kmail2. It wasn't a problem with Claws-Mail (I'm leaving Claws for non-technical reasons). My experimentation with Alpine indicates that, at the single folder level, it's not a problem for Alpine: Alpine can view a huge folder within a couple seconds the first time, instantly from then on. My (probably temporary) problem with Alpine is finding and committing to muscle memory tactics to replace my Kmail/Claws chops that sped my workflow. I might end up using Alpine for my daily emailing activities, and some other program to act as a sort of "file manager" for my IMAP server. I think Steffen Kaiser's last email went a long way toward pointing me in the right direction in Alpine operations, especially his link to the IMAP specification. I'll be working with his suggestions over the next couple days. And of course I still need to investigate Mutt. Thanks everyone! SteveT Steve Litt November 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz