CentOS - Dec 2020 - [CentOS-devel] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/

I agree this is shocking news.? If we don't want to be beta testers and 
want to continue to use a stable tested OS should we be moving to RHEL 
servers?? Is there a license-free RHEL server option that is the 
recommended path from using CentOS?

Chris

On 12/8/2020 8:32 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> This is really, really bad for the majority of us using CentOS.
>
> Is there any way we can lobby for the reversal of this decision? Remember
> that the -devel mailing list, and IRC channels *do not* represent the vast
> majority of CentOS users. Most of us are just sysadmins trying to keep our
> systems that have been using CentOS for many, many years running and our
> procedures for installing, and patching systems working after whatever
> changes have been mysteriously decided upon, and forced on us.
>
> We will be forced to look at other distributions now; and forced to do a
> ton of unnecessary work to deal with this.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Rich Bowen <rbowen at redhat.com>
wrote:
>
>> The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next
>> year we?ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat
>> Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of a
>> current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end
>> at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date, serving as
>> the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
>>
>> Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS
Linux
>> 7, and we?ll continue to produce that version through the remainder of
>> the RHEL 7 life cycle.
>>
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
>>
>> CentOS Stream will also be the centerpiece of a major shift in
>> collaboration among the CentOS Special Interest Groups (SIGs). This
>> ensures SIGs are developing and testing against what becomes the next
>> version of RHEL. This also provides SIGs a clear single goal, rather
>> than having to build and test for two releases. It gives the CentOS
>> contributor community a great deal of influence in the future of RHEL.
>> And it removes confusion around what ?CentOS? means in the Linux
>> distribution ecosystem.
>>
>> When CentOS Linux 8 (the rebuild of RHEL8) ends, your best option will
>> be to migrate to CentOS Stream 8, which is a small delta from CentOS
>> Linux 8, and has regular updates like traditional CentOS Linux
releases.
>> If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are
>> concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you
>> to contact Red Hat about options.
>>
>> We have an FAQ - https://centos.org/distro-faq/ - to help with your
>> information and planning needs, as you figure out how this shift of
>> project focus might affect you.
>>
>> [See also: Red Hat's perspective on this.
>>
>>
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/centos-stream-building-innovative-future-enterprise-linux
>> ]
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CentOS-devel mailing list
>> CentOS-devel at centos.org
>> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
>>
>
-- 
Christopher Wensink
IS Administrator
Five Star Plastics, Inc
1339 Continental Drive
Eau Claire, WI 54701
Office:  715-831-1682
Mobile:  715-563-3112
Fax:  715-831-6075
cwensink at five-star-plastics.com
www.five-star-plastics.com

We would also have to spend an extraordinary amount of work moving off CentOS. 
We currently run it on production servers and would no longer be able to run it
if it was beta.
This will affect thousands of CentOS business users who use it because it is
stable and not a beta.

Andrea

-----Original Message-----
From: CentOS <centos-bounces at centos.org> On Behalf Of Christopher
Wensink
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 8:35 AM
To: centos at centos.org
Subject: {EXTERNAL} Re: [CentOS] [CentOS-devel]
https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/


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I agree this is shocking news.? If we don't want to be beta testers and want
to continue to use a stable tested OS should we be moving to RHEL servers?? Is
there a license-free RHEL server option that is the recommended path from using
CentOS?

Chris

On 12/8/2020 8:32 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> This is really, really bad for the majority of us using CentOS.
>
> Is there any way we can lobby for the reversal of this decision? 
> Remember that the -devel mailing list, and IRC channels *do not* 
> represent the vast majority of CentOS users. Most of us are just 
> sysadmins trying to keep our systems that have been using CentOS for 
> many, many years running and our procedures for installing, and 
> patching systems working after whatever changes have been mysteriously
decided upon, and forced on us.
>
> We will be forced to look at other distributions now; and forced to do 
> a ton of unnecessary work to deal with this.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Rich Bowen <rbowen at redhat.com>
wrote:
>
>> The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next 
>> year we?ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red 
>> Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just 
>> ahead of a current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 
>> 8, will end at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that 
>> date, serving as the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat
Enterprise Linux.
>>
>> Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS 
>> Linux 7, and we?ll continue to produce that version through the 
>> remainder of the RHEL 7 life cycle.
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/
>> updates/errata/*Life_Cycle_Dates__;Iw!!JA_k2roV-A!UcTJONdzRw91iWPOPbI
>> BOfyPCTEVw0n6aihwrcaaP0xx4AM5TH5uOcLw9UL5CTiBsA$
>>
>> CentOS Stream will also be the centerpiece of a major shift in 
>> collaboration among the CentOS Special Interest Groups (SIGs). This 
>> ensures SIGs are developing and testing against what becomes the next 
>> version of RHEL. This also provides SIGs a clear single goal, rather 
>> than having to build and test for two releases. It gives the CentOS 
>> contributor community a great deal of influence in the future of RHEL.
>> And it removes confusion around what ?CentOS? means in the Linux 
>> distribution ecosystem.
>>
>> When CentOS Linux 8 (the rebuild of RHEL8) ends, your best option 
>> will be to migrate to CentOS Stream 8, which is a small delta from 
>> CentOS Linux 8, and has regular updates like traditional CentOS Linux
releases.
>> If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are 
>> concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage 
>> you to contact Red Hat about options.
>>
>> We have an FAQ - 
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://centos.org/distro-faq/__;!!JA_k2r
>>
oV-A!UcTJONdzRw91iWPOPbIBOfyPCTEVw0n6aihwrcaaP0xx4AM5TH5uOcLw9ULXK7HrAw$  - to
help with your information and planning needs, as you figure out how this shift
of project focus might affect you.
>>
>> [See also: Red Hat's perspective on this.
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/centos-str
>> eam-building-innovative-future-enterprise-linux__;!!JA_k2roV-A!UcTJON
>> dzRw91iWPOPbIBOfyPCTEVw0n6aihwrcaaP0xx4AM5TH5uOcLw9ULz5qn9vg$
>> ]
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CentOS-devel mailing list
>> CentOS-devel at centos.org
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo
>> /centos-devel__;!!JA_k2roV-A!UcTJONdzRw91iWPOPbIBOfyPCTEVw0n6aihwrcaa
>> P0xx4AM5TH5uOcLw9UKTDKBGAA$
>>
>
--
Christopher Wensink
IS Administrator
Five Star Plastics, Inc
1339 Continental Drive
Eau Claire, WI 54701
Office:  715-831-1682
Mobile:  715-563-3112
Fax:  715-831-6075
cwensink at five-star-plastics.com
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.five-star-plastics.com__;!!JA_k2roV-A!UcTJONdzRw91iWPOPbIBOfyPCTEVw0n6aihwrcaaP0xx4AM5TH5uOcLw9UKZFuUl9Q$

_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
CentOS at centos.org
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos__;!!JA_k2roV-A!UcTJONdzRw91iWPOPbIBOfyPCTEVw0n6aihwrcaaP0xx4AM5TH5uOcLw9UJWvEhAJw$

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LOL, laughing with you not at you, license free RHEL.  Just RHEL (IBM)
wanting to increase the coffers for RHEL.  I know, I know thats not whats
really happening but yeah that is what is really happening. If you want a
tested production worthy server install based on RHEL then you will have to
pay for RHEL.  I know this is exaggerating but if I wanted to test
pre-production stuff I could just run Fedora. ;)

Oh well end of an era...sniff.


servers?  Is there a license-free RHEL server option that is
the
> recommended path from using CentOS?
>
> Chris
>
> On 12/8/2020 8:32 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> > This is really, really bad for the majority of us using CentOS.
> >
> > Is there any way we can lobby for the reversal of this decision?
Remember
> > that the -devel mailing list, and IRC channels *do not* represent the
> vast
> > majority of CentOS users. Most of us are just sysadmins trying to keep
> our
> > systems that have been using CentOS for many, many years running and
our
> > procedures for installing, and patching systems working after whatever
> > changes have been mysteriously decided upon, and forced on us.
> >
> > We will be forced to look at other distributions now; and forced to do
a
> > ton of unnecessary work to deal with this.
> >
> > Thanks a lot.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Rich Bowen <rbowen at redhat.com>
wrote:
> >
> >> The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the
next
> >> year we?ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red
Hat
> >> Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead
of a
> >> current RHEL release. CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will
end
> >> at the end of 2021. CentOS Stream continues after that date,
serving as
> >> the upstream (development) branch of Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
> >>
> >> Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS
Linux
> >> 7, and we?ll continue to produce that version through the
remainder of
> >> the RHEL 7 life cycle.
> >>
> https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
> >>
> >> CentOS Stream will also be the centerpiece of a major shift in
> >> collaboration among the CentOS Special Interest Groups (SIGs).
This
> >> ensures SIGs are developing and testing against what becomes the
next
> >> version of RHEL. This also provides SIGs a clear single goal,
rather
> >> than having to build and test for two releases. It gives the
CentOS
> >> contributor community a great deal of influence in the future of
RHEL.
> >> And it removes confusion around what ?CentOS? means in the Linux
> >> distribution ecosystem.
> >>
> >> When CentOS Linux 8 (the rebuild of RHEL8) ends, your best option
will
> >> be to migrate to CentOS Stream 8, which is a small delta from
CentOS
> >> Linux 8, and has regular updates like traditional CentOS Linux
releases.
> >> If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and
are
> >> concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we
encourage you
> >> to contact Red Hat about options.
> >>
> >> We have an FAQ - https://centos.org/distro-faq/ - to help with
your
> >> information and planning needs, as you figure out how this shift
of
> >> project focus might affect you.
> >>
> >> [See also: Red Hat's perspective on this.
> >>
> >>
>
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/centos-stream-building-innovative-future-enterprise-linux
> >> ]
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CentOS-devel mailing list
> >> CentOS-devel at centos.org
> >> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-devel
> >>
> >
>
> --
> Christopher Wensink
> IS Administrator
> Five Star Plastics, Inc
> 1339 Continental Drive
> Eau Claire, WI 54701
> Office:  715-831-1682
> Mobile:  715-563-3112
> Fax:  715-831-6075
> cwensink at five-star-plastics.com
> www.five-star-plastics.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS at centos.org
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>

On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 08:34:54AM -0600, Christopher Wensink
wrote:
> I agree this is shocking news.? If we don't want to be beta testers
> and want to continue to use a stable tested OS should we be moving
> to RHEL servers?? Is there a license-free RHEL server option that is
> the recommended path from using CentOS?
So: other than the developer subscription, not yet. But see this part of the
FAQ -- https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10:

    In the first half of 2021, we will be introducing low- or no-cost
    programs for a variety of use cases, including options for open
    source projects and communities, partner ecosystems and an
    expansion of the use cases of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux
    Developer subscription to better serve the needs of systems
    administrators and partner developers. We?ll share more details on
    these initiatives as they become available.

I'm not part of any of the decisions around that, but I know for sure
that work is in progress and it's not just meant to sound nice. I don't
know if any of these will meet your use cases, but I think they will
for a lot of people here.

For others, note that the plan is for CentOS Stream to target upcoming
RHEL minor releases. Between any two six months, the change delta
should be just the same as it is in CentOS Linux now. It's not like
it's going to become Fedora Rawhide. Everything going into it is
intended to land in RHEL on a short timescale. It's not a beta or a
playground for broken code.

Is it possible that more regressions will get through than have before?
Well, sure, some. But let's not pretend that even RHEL is ever
regression-free. It's software, after all, and there are bugs and
errata. I don't think that for most self-supported CentOS use, it will
be particularly dangerous to switch to Stream at all.

And if your use case isn't covered by one of the upcoming low- and
no-cost programs, and you can't take the risk or the possible increased
change management overhead, or for some other reason... well, is it
_really_ so bad for companies to pay for RHEL? (I like my family to be
able to eat, so I'm a bit biased.... but all of this has to come from
something.)

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm at fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader