CentOS - Dec 2020 - [CentOS-devel] https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/

On 12/8/20 11:19 AM, Marc Balmer via CentOS wrote:
> Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as quite
arrogant?
I am sorry you feel that way.  I was trying to help.  Red Hat has
several programs where they give away RHEL for free.  CentOS Stream is
free.  CentOS Linux 8 is going away in at the end of 2021.

Those are facts.

He said he wanted free Linux and did not want to interact with the
community.  I provided all the alternatives that i know for that.

Stream, a qualified version of RHEL that can be obtained from Red Hat
for free (has nothing to do with CentOS) or some other distribution.

I am not being arrogant or negative.  Just pointing out facts.

I have been doing this for 17 years.  I would continue doing for 17
more.  But it is what it is and wishing for it to be different is not
going to happen.  I know .. I've tried.
> 
>> Am 08.12.2020 um 18:11 schrieb Johnny Hughes <johnny at
centos.org>:
>>
>> ?On 12/8/20 11:02 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Rich Bowen <rbowen at
redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
>>>>> I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better
engagement with
>>>>> the community.  Why would we trust these promises?
>>>>
>>>> "Better engagement with the community" of course
requires that the
>>>> community step up and engage. Trust isn't something anyone
expects to
>>>> just magically happen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The whole point of CentOS was so that we didn't have to
"engage." We don't
>>> have time for that.
>>>
>>> We just want a stable re-compile of RHEL, as promised. CentOS has
been
>>> diverging from this for a while (note the change in version
names/numbers)
>>> and we DON'T WANT THAT!
>>
>> Right, you want free RHEL .. so get in touch with Red Hat and see if
you
>> qualify for it.
>>
>> Here is how you can convert:
>>
>> https://access.redhat.com/articles/2360841
>>
>> Or, you can see if Stream can meet your requirements of something you
>> can just get for free.
>>
>> Or, you can do something else.  It is all up to you.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 11:29 AM Johnny Hughes <johnny at centos.org> wrote:
> On 12/8/20 11:19 AM, Marc Balmer via CentOS wrote:
> > Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as
> quite arrogant?
>
> I am sorry you feel that way.  I was trying to help.  Red Hat has
> several programs where they give away RHEL for free.  CentOS Stream is
> free.  CentOS Linux 8 is going away in at the end of 2021.
>
> Those are facts.
>
> He said he wanted free Linux and did not want to interact with the
> community.  I provided all the alternatives that i know for that.
>
> Stream, a qualified version of RHEL that can be obtained from Red Hat
> for free (has nothing to do with CentOS) or some other distribution.
>
> I am not being arrogant or negative.  Just pointing out facts.
>
> I have been doing this for 17 years.  I would continue doing for 17
> more.  But it is what it is and wishing for it to be different is not
> going to happen.  I know .. I've tried.
>
> >
> >> Am 08.12.2020 um 18:11 schrieb Johnny Hughes <johnny at
centos.org>:
> >>
> >> ?On 12/8/20 11:02 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Rich Bowen <rbowen at
redhat.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> >>>>> I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better
engagement with
> >>>>> the community.  Why would we trust these promises?
> >>>>
> >>>> "Better engagement with the community" of course
requires that the
> >>>> community step up and engage. Trust isn't something
anyone expects to
> >>>> just magically happen.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> The whole point of CentOS was so that we didn't have to
"engage." We
> don't
> >>> have time for that.
> >>>
> >>> We just want a stable re-compile of RHEL, as promised. CentOS
has been
> >>> diverging from this for a while (note the change in version
> names/numbers)
> >>> and we DON'T WANT THAT!
> >>
> >> Right, you want free RHEL .. so get in touch with Red Hat and see
if you
> >> qualify for it.
> >>
> >> Here is how you can convert:
> >>
> >> https://access.redhat.com/articles/2360841
> >>
> >> Or, you can see if Stream can meet your requirements of something
you
> >> can just get for free.
> >>
> >> Or, you can do something else.  It is all up to you.
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS at centos.org
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
> I've been around for most of those, thanks Johnny for all the work.
> Appreciate all the work that all the contributors have done over the years,
> just sad to see it go, oh well.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:29 PM Johnny Hughes <johnny at centos.org>
wrote:
> On 12/8/20 11:19 AM, Marc Balmer via CentOS wrote:
> > Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as
> quite arrogant?
>
> I am sorry you feel that way.  I was trying to help.  Red Hat has
> several programs where they give away RHEL for free.  CentOS Stream is
> free.  CentOS Linux 8 is going away in at the end of 2021.
>
> Those are facts.
>
> He said he wanted free Linux and did not want to interact with the
> community.  I provided all the alternatives that i know for that.
>
> Stream, a qualified version of RHEL that can be obtained from Red Hat
> for free (has nothing to do with CentOS) or some other distribution.
>
> I am not being arrogant or negative.  Just pointing out facts.
>
> I have been doing this for 17 years.  I would continue doing for 17
> more.  But it is what it is and wishing for it to be different is not
> going to happen.  I know .. I've tried.
>
>
That doesn't sound much like a "community" to me. That's my
point.

(And I explicitly did not ask for "free Linux," or even "free
RHEL." I only
asked for what the CentOS web page says, and has said for your 17 years.)

>
> >> Am 08.12.2020 um 18:11 schrieb Johnny Hughes <johnny at
centos.org>:
> >>
> >> ?On 12/8/20 11:02 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Rich Bowen <rbowen at
redhat.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> >>>>> I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better
engagement with
> >>>>> the community.  Why would we trust these promises?
> >>>>
> >>>> "Better engagement with the community" of course
requires that the
> >>>> community step up and engage. Trust isn't something
anyone expects to
> >>>> just magically happen.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> The whole point of CentOS was so that we didn't have to
"engage." We
> don't
> >>> have time for that.
> >>>
> >>> We just want a stable re-compile of RHEL, as promised. CentOS
has been
> >>> diverging from this for a while (note the change in version
> names/numbers)
> >>> and we DON'T WANT THAT!
> >>
> >> Right, you want free RHEL .. so get in touch with Red Hat and see
if you
> >> qualify for it.
> >>
> >> Here is how you can convert:
> >>
> >> https://access.redhat.com/articles/2360841
> >>
> >> Or, you can see if Stream can meet your requirements of something
you
> >> can just get for free.
> >>
> >> Or, you can do something else.  It is all up to you.
>
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS at centos.org
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>

-- 

*Matt Phelps*

*Information Technology Specialist, Systems Administrator*

(Computation Facility, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory)

Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian


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On 12/8/2020 11:28 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
> I have been doing this for 17 years. I would continue doing for 17
> more.  But it is what it is and wishing for it to be different is not
> going to happen.  I know .. I've tried.
We owe everyone who worked on CentOS a big thank you.

I think a lot of people are overwhelmed by the fact that the CentOS we
knew appears to be dying (was killed, in fact).

I wonder what the ultimate outcome will be. Probably RHEL will get a few
new subscribers and some CentOS users will migrate to stream, but I
think this will ultimately diminish Red Hat within the Linux world.?
Probably net advantage to Ubuntu.

I shudder to imagine a world where Oracle Linux replaces CentOS.

-Alan

-- 

Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.

science + technology = better workers

http://www.alanmead.org

The irony of this ... is that the Internet is
both almost-infinitely expandable, while at the
same time constrained within its own pre-defined
box. And if that makes no sense to you, just
reflect on the existence of Facebook. We have
the vastness of the internet and yet billions
of people decided to spend most of them time
within a horribly designed, fake-news emporium
of a website that sucks every possible piece of
personal information out of you so it can sell it
to others. And they see nothing wrong with that.

-- Kieren McCarthy, commenting on why we are not 
                    all using IPv6

On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 11:28:58AM -0600, Johnny Hughes
wrote:
> > Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as
quite arrogant?
> I am sorry you feel that way.  I was trying to help.  Red Hat has
Yeah, um, if I'm coming across as arrogant, I apologize. I genuinely think
this is overall a good thing, and I'm hoping some of y'all will see some
of
that. I realize my excitement might not be completely catching at first.

But Johnny is easily in the running for "least arrogant person I
know", and
has demonstrated that consistantly for years and years, as anyone who has
followed CentOS regularly will attest. So, c'mon, let's please not take
this
there.

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm at fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader