CentOS - Jul 2018 - Which is better? Microsoft Exchange 2016 or Linux-based SMTP Servers?

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Keller" <kkeller at
wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
> To: centos at centos.org
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 11:33:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Which is better? Microsoft Exchange 2016 or
Linux-based SMTP Servers?
> On 2018-07-19, Mark Rousell <mark.rousell at signal100.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well said. I feel that too many people today have forgotten (or, more
>> likely, never learned) these lessons from history. People give away
>> their personal and supposedly private information too easily and, I
feel
>> certain, will come to regret it (some already have come to regret it).
> 
> While I agree with the above, it doesn't really address Johnny's
> question, which is which open source calendaring projects can compete
> with Google calendar for users' ease of use?  If I give my users
Zimbra,
> and they hate it, then what?  For simple email use, there are plenty of
> clients which can talk IMAP/SMTP to a linux server, but the options for
> calendaring (and ''groupware'' in general) are much
sparser.
> 
> It's a hard question, and each organization needs to weigh their
privacy
> concerns against their users' requirements.
> 
> --keith
> 
> --
> kkeller at wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
Zimbra's calendaring component is also a CALDav compliant server. Users can
also share their calendars either via the zimbra web client(public, or
restricted to an email address with a password), or exporting the calendar to an
ICS file. CALDav compliant calendar clients like Apples calendar app on Mac and
iOS can subscribe or connect to the zimbra server using its
https://zimbra.example.com address. The Zimbra web client interface for using
and managing calendars is just as easy to use as googles calendars.

David.

On 07/19/2018 03:18 PM, David C. Miller wrote:
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Keith Keller" <kkeller at
wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
>> To: centos at centos.org
>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 11:33:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Which is better? Microsoft Exchange 2016 or
Linux-based SMTP Servers?
> 
>> On 2018-07-19, Mark Rousell <mark.rousell at signal100.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Well said. I feel that too many people today have forgotten (or,
more
>>> likely, never learned) these lessons from history. People give away
>>> their personal and supposedly private information too easily and, I
feel
>>> certain, will come to regret it (some already have come to regret
it).
>>
>> While I agree with the above, it doesn't really address
Johnny's
>> question, which is which open source calendaring projects can compete
>> with Google calendar for users' ease of use?  If I give my users
Zimbra,
>> and they hate it, then what?  For simple email use, there are plenty of
>> clients which can talk IMAP/SMTP to a linux server, but the options for
>> calendaring (and ''groupware'' in general) are much
sparser.
>>
>> It's a hard question, and each organization needs to weigh their
privacy
>> concerns against their users' requirements.
>>
>> --keith
>>
>> --
>> kkeller at wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
> 
> Zimbra's calendaring component is also a CALDav compliant server. Users
can also share their calendars either via the zimbra web client(public, or
restricted to an email address with a password), or exporting the calendar to an
ICS file. CALDav compliant calendar clients like Apples calendar app on Mac and
iOS can subscribe or connect to the zimbra server using its
https://zimbra.example.com address. The Zimbra web client interface for using
and managing calendars is just as easy to use as googles calendars.
> 
OK, what you say is true in theory.  However,  in Thunderbird on Linux
and using Mac clients, etc  .. and certainly on Windows workstation
clients using outlook .. zimbra does not work well.  It also does not
work well on people's smart phone calendars. People want their phone to
remind them of their appointments .. any solution that is iffy doing
that is just unacceptable in this day and age.


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> [...] People want their phone to
> remind them of their appointments [...]
It's a generalization. Not valid for all people.

Maybe SOME people want their phone to remind them of their appointsments.

My appointments are synchronized from owncloud to Thunderbird and to 
many (LineageOS-based) smartphones and tablets and >>I<< do NOT want
to
be reminded on the smartphones and tablets, but ONLY on Thunderbird 
desktop client.

Regards,

Meikel

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Johnny Hughes" <johnny at centos.org>
> To: centos at centos.org
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2018 8:18:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Which is better? Microsoft Exchange 2016 or
Linux-based SMTP Servers?
> On 07/19/2018 03:18 PM, David C. Miller wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Keith Keller" <kkeller at
wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
>>> To: centos at centos.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 11:33:17 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Which is better? Microsoft Exchange 2016 or
Linux-based
>>> SMTP Servers?
>> 
>>> On 2018-07-19, Mark Rousell <mark.rousell at signal100.com>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well said. I feel that too many people today have forgotten
(or, more
>>>> likely, never learned) these lessons from history. People give
away
>>>> their personal and supposedly private information too easily
and, I feel
>>>> certain, will come to regret it (some already have come to
regret it).
>>>
>>> While I agree with the above, it doesn't really address
Johnny's
>>> question, which is which open source calendaring projects can
compete
>>> with Google calendar for users' ease of use?  If I give my
users Zimbra,
>>> and they hate it, then what?  For simple email use, there are
plenty of
>>> clients which can talk IMAP/SMTP to a linux server, but the options
for
>>> calendaring (and ''groupware'' in general) are much
sparser.
>>>
>>> It's a hard question, and each organization needs to weigh
their privacy
>>> concerns against their users' requirements.
>>>
>>> --keith
>>>
>>> --
>>> kkeller at wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
>> 
>> Zimbra's calendaring component is also a CALDav compliant server.
Users can also
>> share their calendars either via the zimbra web client(public, or
restricted to
>> an email address with a password), or exporting the calendar to an ICS
file.
>> CALDav compliant calendar clients like Apples calendar app on Mac and
iOS can
>> subscribe or connect to the zimbra server using its
https://zimbra.example.com
>> address. The Zimbra web client interface for using and managing
calendars is
>> just as easy to use as googles calendars.
>> 
> 
> OK, what you say is true in theory.  However,  in Thunderbird on Linux
> and using Mac clients, etc  .. and certainly on Windows workstation
> clients using outlook .. zimbra does not work well.  It also does not
> work well on people's smart phone calendars. People want their phone to
> remind them of their appointments .. any solution that is iffy doing
> that is just unacceptable in this day and age.
> 
Yeah, I'm not saying it is perfect, nothing is. Zimbra standard also
includes active sync so your iOS and android device can connect to it like if it
was an exchange server. I have dozens of users doing that and the calendars work
as intended. I also have a few dozen users connecting to our zimbra server via
the Apple calendar program via CALDav protocol and although Apples program is
not 100% CALDav compliant it works fine for the things people actually use. They
send invites and get reminders for events just fine. For our outlook users there
is a connector that allows outlook to connect to our zimbra server as if it were
an exchange server. I wasn't aware that thundebird had a calendar component
but it works fine for IMAP and POP. I'm not saying it is perfect but if you
have a mix of platforms like I do(Windows, Mac, Linux, android, iOS) and have to
host the data yourself, I think Zimbra is a decent solution. That being said, I
would prefer to use googles offerings. It would make my job a lot easier. Being
an email admin, dealing with spam/phishing/malware, maintaining security
patches, OS updates, and hardware sucks.

On 07/25/2018 08:18 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
> OK, what you say is true in theory.  However,  in Thunderbird on Linux
> and using Mac clients, etc  .. and certainly on Windows workstation
> clients using outlook .. zimbra does not work well.  It also does not
> work well on people's smart phone calendars. People want their phone to
> remind them of their appointments .. any solution that is iffy doing
> that is just unacceptable in this day and age.

I'm not sure how long it's been available, but Zimbra supports Exchange 
ActiveSync.? Windows workstation clients using Outlook shouldn't see any 
difference between Zimbra and Exchange, if it's implemented properly.

Personally, I use SOGo (which also supports EAS).? It didn't get many 
mentions in the this thread, which is unfortunate because it's *really* 
good.