CentOS - Mar 2005 - Upgrading from RH8.0 - to do or not to do?????

I have a server and I''d love to upgrade to Centos.  It''s not
totally
custom but does have a working 3ware array.  The hardware is rock solid.
Is it smart to do an "upgrade" using YUM or do I really need to do a
clean install.  I have about 60 users on this box along with about 30
shares.  Re-Doing this would not be much fun.

Before I make a recommendation to the client, I thought I would get all
of your opinions on an upgrade vs. new install.  Normally, I much prefer
new installs... However with the amount of work required here and the
probability of a mistake, I thought I would consider an actual upgrade
instead.

Thanks.


Scott

I would backup the passwords files and any cfg files you need and
reinstall.  That is probably going to be a nightmare in and of itself
above and beyond a reinstall.

Scott Heisler wrote:
> I have a server and I''d love to upgrade to Centos.  It''s
not totally
> custom but does have a working 3ware array.  The hardware is rock solid.
> Is it smart to do an "upgrade" using YUM or do I really need to
do a
> clean install.  I have about 60 users on this box along with about 30
> shares.  Re-Doing this would not be much fun.
>
> Before I make a recommendation to the client, I thought I would get all
> of your opinions on an upgrade vs. new install.  Normally, I much prefer
> new installs... However with the amount of work required here and the
> probability of a mistake, I thought I would consider an actual upgrade
> instead.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@caosity.org
> http://lists.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
> .
>
--
My "Foundation" verse:
Isa 54:17  No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and
every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt
condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their
righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape"
CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician)

Linux user #322099
Machines:
206822
256638
276825
http://counter.li.org/

But is it a nightmare to upgrade as well?  I know that a fresh install
is a nightmare.

Thanks


Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: centos-bounces@caosity.org [mailto:centos-bounces@caosity.org] On
Behalf Of William Warren
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 4:59 PM
To: CentOS discussion and information list
Subject: Re: [Centos] Upgrading from RH8.0 - to do or not to do?????

I would backup the passwords files and any cfg files you need and
reinstall.  That is probably going to be a nightmare in and of itself
above and beyond a reinstall.

Scott Heisler wrote:
> I have a server and I''d love to upgrade to Centos.  It''s
not totally
> custom but does have a working 3ware array.  The hardware is rock
solid.
> Is it smart to do an "upgrade" using YUM or do I really need to
do a
> clean install.  I have about 60 users on this box along with about 30
> shares.  Re-Doing this would not be much fun.
>
> Before I make a recommendation to the client, I thought I would get
> all of your opinions on an upgrade vs. new install.  Normally, I much
> prefer new installs... However with the amount of work required here
> and the probability of a mistake, I thought I would consider an actual
> upgrade instead.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@caosity.org
> http://lists.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
> .
>
--
My "Foundation" verse:
Isa 54:17  No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and
every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt
condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their
righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape"
CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician)

Linux user #322099
Machines:
206822
256638
276825
http://counter.li.org/
_______________________________________________
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@caosity.org
http://lists.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

OK, so I''m a top poster....

I would recommend a clean install.  As the poster below mentions, backup
your critical config files (or just do a dump of the entire
filesystem...a cheap 300 or 400gig IDE drive is great for that).  The
3ware card is completely a non-issue.  The 3ware drivers are shipped
with the kernel these days and are VERY stable.   For projects like
this, I generally install a big cheap IDE drive, mirror the content of
the "old server", wipe the old disk array, reinstall from scratch,
then
restore custom bits from the mounted IDE drive.  When you''re done, you
disconnect the IDE drive (or keep it around for cheap/fast data backup
in a pinch) and season to taste.

Cheers,

C

William Warren wrote:
> I would backup the passwords files and any cfg files you need and
> reinstall.  That is probably going to be a nightmare in and of itself
> above and beyond a reinstall.
>
> Scott Heisler wrote:
>
>> I have a server and I''d love to upgrade to Centos. 
It''s not totally
>> custom but does have a working 3ware array.  The hardware is rock
solid.
>> Is it smart to do an "upgrade" using YUM or do I really need
to do a
>> clean install.  I have about 60 users on this box along with about 30
>> shares.  Re-Doing this would not be much fun.
>

What makes you say that?  I can install/configure a virgin rackmount
computer with the 4.0 DVD in under an hour.  What exactly are you
concerned about possibly tripping you up?

Cheers,

C

Scott Heisler wrote:
>But is it a nightmare to upgrade as well?  I know that a fresh install
>is a nightmare.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>

Chris Mauritz wrote:
> Scott Heisler wrote:
>
>> But is it a nightmare to upgrade as well?  I know that a fresh install
>> is a nightmare.
>>
 > What makes you say that?  I can install/configure a virgin rackmount
 > computer with the 4.0 DVD in under an hour.  What exactly are you
 > concerned about possibly tripping you up?

Most likely he doesn''t want to have to reconfigure all the services
that
are running on the box.  Plus there''s probably a ton of little tweaks
that have been done over the years that need to be updated.

IMO, both ways suck.  One one hand a MAJOR update like RH8 -> Centos4 is
going to upgrade just about every package in the system.  So you''ll
probably have to reconfigure everything anyway.  Then you''ll be left
with a bunch of RH8 cruft.

A clean install on the other hand will be pure CentOS4 and you get to
configure everything without any old RH8 cruft.

--Ajay

On Thu, 2005-03-10 at 17:02, Scott Heisler wrote:
> But is it a nightmare to upgrade as well?  I know that a fresh install
> is a nightmare.
Yes, but a fresh install with a restore of your own data and changes is
a nightmare you have a chance of understanding.  A slightly botched
upgrade can be a mess that is really difficult to figure out.  If /home
is on its own partition you might get by with not formatting it during
the install to save having to restore it.

--
  Les Mikesell
   les@futuresource.com

RedHat has said if you do an upgrade do it via anaconda..a yum upgrade
WILL hose your box.

Ajay Sharma wrote:
> Chris Mauritz wrote:
>
>> Scott Heisler wrote:
>>
>>> But is it a nightmare to upgrade as well?  I know that a fresh
install
>>> is a nightmare.
>>>
>  > What makes you say that?  I can install/configure a virgin rackmount
>  > computer with the 4.0 DVD in under an hour.  What exactly are you
>  > concerned about possibly tripping you up?
>
> Most likely he doesn''t want to have to reconfigure all the
services that
> are running on the box.  Plus there''s probably a ton of little
tweaks
> that have been done over the years that need to be updated.
>
> IMO, both ways suck.  One one hand a MAJOR update like RH8 -> Centos4 is
> going to upgrade just about every package in the system.  So
you''ll
> probably have to reconfigure everything anyway.  Then you''ll be
left
> with a bunch of RH8 cruft.
>
> A clean install on the other hand will be pure CentOS4 and you get to
> configure everything without any old RH8 cruft.
>
> --Ajay
> _______________________________________________
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@caosity.org
> http://lists.caosity.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>
--
My "Foundation" verse:
Isa 54:17  No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and
every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt
condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their
righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape"
CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician)

Linux user #322099
Machines:
206822
256638
276825
http://counter.li.org/

On Thursday, 10 March 2005, at 18:51:13 (-0500),
William Warren wrote:
> RedHat has said if you do an upgrade do it via anaconda..a yum
> upgrade WILL hose your box.
They also have a vested interest in making you believe you are
dependent upon their tools.

I successfully upgraded 2 servers running Vermillion 7.3.1 (basically
RH 7.3) to CentOS via yum.  I''ve also yum upgraded from CentOS 3 to
4.  It may not go seemlessly and smoothly all in one step, but it''s
doable.

Michael

--
Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX)  http://www.kainx.org/  <mej@kainx.org>
n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/       Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 "A lot of times, men do things they don''t want to do so the woman
  they''re going out with will do things *they* don''t want to
do."
                                                          -- Tim Allen

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Ajay Sharma wrote:
> Chris Mauritz wrote:
> > Scott Heisler wrote:
> >
> > > But is it a nightmare to upgrade as well?  I know that a fresh
install
> > > is a nightmare.
> >
> > What makes you say that?  I can install/configure a virgin rackmount
> > computer with the 4.0 DVD in under an hour.  What exactly are you
> > concerned about possibly tripping you up?
>
> Most likely he doesn''t want to have to reconfigure all the
services that are
> running on the box.  Plus there''s probably a ton of little tweaks
that have
> been done over the years that need to be updated.
If people are interested. I have written a tool that backups most of your
config-files, only if they have been changed compared to what was shipped
with the RPMs.

I was planning to extend this somewhat more to include also other
config-files (tagged as such by RPM) that have been changed. This way you
can take advantage if what RPM considers a config-file.

The tool is called dconf, and is located:

	http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/dconf/

It''s written in python and can use some help from experienced python
programmers :)

--   dag wieers,  dag@wieers.com,  http://dag.wieers.com/   --
[all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Michael Jennings wrote:
> On Thursday, 10 March 2005, at 18:51:13 (-0500),
> William Warren wrote:
>
> > RedHat has said if you do an upgrade do it via anaconda..a yum
> > upgrade WILL hose your box.
>
> They also have a vested interest in making you believe you are
> dependent upon their tools.
>
> I successfully upgraded 2 servers running Vermillion 7.3.1 (basically
> RH 7.3) to CentOS via yum.  I''ve also yum upgraded from CentOS 3
to
> 4.  It may not go seemlessly and smoothly all in one step, but
it''s
> doable.
A project extracting the extra logic from Anaconda to make it useable from
a script after an online upgrade, looks useful to me. As in a prior
discussion Seth pointed out, not everything Anaconda does can be done
online, but if most of it can i''d be already grateful :)

--   dag wieers,  dag@wieers.com,  http://dag.wieers.com/   --
[all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]

On Thu, 2005-03-10 at 16:53 -0600, Scott Heisler wrote:
> I have a server and I''d love to upgrade to Centos.  It''s
not totally
> custom but does have a working 3ware array.  The hardware is rock solid.
> Is it smart to do an "upgrade" using YUM or do I really need to
do a
> clean install.  I have about 60 users on this box along with about 30
> shares.  Re-Doing this would not be much fun.
>
> Before I make a recommendation to the client, I thought I would get all
> of your opinions on an upgrade vs. new install.  Normally, I much prefer
> new installs... However with the amount of work required here and the
> probability of a mistake, I thought I would consider an actual upgrade
> instead.
If you do an upgrade, an anaconda "upgradeany" approach would be far
better than attempting it with yum - kernel, selinux, and perhaps
filesystems, would be highly problematic.  I''d try installing on a new
disk, or on alternate partitions, with potential to boot back to the old
system, then migrating system settings and user information.  Also,
expect a lot of user stuff to break with new Gnome/KDE/...

See message below for some additional thoughts.

Good luck,
Phil

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Phil Schaffner <Philip.R.Schaffner@NASA.gov>
> To: FreshRPMS <freshrpms-list@freshrpms.net>
> Bcc: P.R.Schaffner@LaRC.NASA.gov
> Subject: Re: migrate to fedora without data loss
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:46:16 -0400
> On Thu, 2004-07-15 at 09:12 +0200, Christian Eichert wrote:
> > Hallo
> >
> > maybe this question has been asked before.
> > in this case sorry for that.
> >
> > I am using RH9 and would like to migrate to fedora without data loss
> > using ayo if possible. if it is not possible i will continue using
RH9.
> >
> > is there any officially/inofficialy migrating tool
>
> Some advice has indicated that the best upgrade path is RHx -> FC1 ->
> FC2 (as of Tuesday July 13 FC3text1 is out).  In any case the advice in
> the following message from the fedora-list may be useful, including the
> link to join (or unsubscribe) the (rather busy - fair warning) list.
>
> Phil(My, but I''m feeling parenthetical today! :-)Schaffner
>
> On Thu, 2004-07-08 at 00:31 +0300, Panu Matilainen wrote:
> > Subject: Re: Can I use apt-get to upgrade my Fedora Core 1 to FC2?
> > On Wed, 2004-07-07 at 21:05, Satish Balay wrote:
> > > On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Samsara Zeal wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am wondering if I can upgrade my current FC1 to the new
FC2 by
> > using
> > > > apt-get directly?
> > > > Is there any successful examples?
> > > > Any suggestions? Any risks?
> > >
> > > Not sure about apt - but there are some instructions for yum at:
> > > http://linux.duke.edu/~skvidal/misc/fc1-fc2-yum-hints.txt
> >
> >
> > For FC1 -> FC2 apt upgrades see
> > http://laiskiainen.org/apt/misc/fc1-fc2-apt-hints.txt
> > (and if you have a strange sense of dejavu, yes it''s based on
the yum
> > upgrade hints text, the issues are very much the same with both)
> >
> > Bottom line: if your system uses LVM, just FORGET IT, it''s
going to be
> > a
> > mess. Otherwise you just need to tinker a little bit more than when
> > upgrading with anaconda and mind you, even anaconda leaves some loose
> > ends to fix on FC1->2 upgrade.
> >
> >         - Panu -
> >
> >
> > --
> > fedora-list mailing list
> > fedora-list@redhat.com
> > To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

I''ve had problems with past OS replacements.  I think it was a 7x to 9x
conversion.. Where it wouldn''t read the shadowpasswords correctly....
And the Samba files were different so I had to do a bunch of tweaking
there as well... With as many shares 30-40 shares and users, I expect it
to be difficult.  Doing the install is easy... It''s putting it all back
together that''s hard.

Thanks


Scott Heisler


-----Original Message-----
From: centos-bounces@caosity.org [mailto:centos-bounces@caosity.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Mauritz
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:16 PM
To: CentOS discussion and information list
Subject: Re: [Centos] Upgrading from RH8.0 - to do or not to do?????

What makes you say that?  I can install/configure a virgin rackmount
computer with the 4.0 DVD in under an hour.  What exactly are you
concerned about possibly tripping you up?

Cheers,

C

Scott Heisler wrote:
>But is it a nightmare to upgrade as well?  I know that a fresh install
>is a nightmare.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>

Agreed.  I''m glad you understand that either way sucks... And yes..
Minor tweaks all over... Performance tweaks on Samba and oh, I forgot to
mention... This server also runs Pervasive SQL for Linux... Which would
require a re-install as well... And who knows how many config tweaks
I''ll have to make on that one.

I think I''m going to go hide somewhere and wait for someone else to do
the upgrade! (Like that will happen!)

Well.. In reality... I may just purchase a new server and do a
migration.. Easy to migrate the major shares... Move the user shares
when I get to it... And move the Pervasive database once everything else
is working.  I''m sure I''ll have to upgrade that sucker to a
newer
version as well.. $$$$ but at least it runs great on Linux.  Pervasive
on Windows is a major slug.


Scott Heisler


-----Original Message-----
From: centos-bounces@caosity.org [mailto:centos-bounces@caosity.org] On
Behalf Of Ajay Sharma
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:29 PM
To: CentOS discussion and information list
Subject: Re: [Centos] Upgrading from RH8.0 - to do or not to do?????

Chris Mauritz wrote:
> Scott Heisler wrote:
>
>> But is it a nightmare to upgrade as well?  I know that a fresh
>> install is a nightmare.
>>
 > What makes you say that?  I can install/configure a virgin
rackmount
> computer with the 4.0 DVD in under an hour.  What exactly are you  >
concerned about possibly tripping you up?

Most likely he doesn''t want to have to reconfigure all the services
that
are running on the box.  Plus there''s probably a ton of little tweaks
that have been done over the years that need to be updated.

IMO, both ways suck.  One one hand a MAJOR update like RH8 -> Centos4 is
going to upgrade just about every package in the system.  So you''ll
probably have to reconfigure everything anyway.  Then you''ll be left
with a bunch of RH8 cruft.

A clean install on the other hand will be pure CentOS4 and you get to
configure everything without any old RH8 cruft.

--Ajay
_______________________________________________