CentOS docs - Sep 2020 - Misleading information on main page about Centos Stream

On 09/09/2020 07:15, Dominik Holler wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:05 AM Brian Stinson <brian at bstinson.com 
> <mailto:brian at bstinson.com>> wrote:
> 
>     __
>     On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, at 14:26, Mason Loring Bliss wrote:
>>     On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:28:58PM -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
>>
>>     > This is pretty misleading. Isn't Stream just a collection
of
>>     repos that
>>     > offer pre-release packages for the next RHEL point release?
It's
>>     not a
>>     > midstream between Fedora and RHEL.
>>
>>     Along those lines, if someone's adjusting text in there,
I'd tend
>>     to think
>>     "rolling release" indicates that one could go from RHEL 8
to 9
>>     without a
>>     reinstall, but unless something's changed, major version moves
>>     will require
>>     a reinstall, just like standard CentOS.
>>
>>     I'd love to learn that my understanding is outdated!
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Mason Loring Bliss?? ((? "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind
dreams
>>     mason at blisses.org <mailto:mason at blisses.org>???? ))?
build? their
>>     nest? with fragments? dropped
>>     http://blisses.org/? ((?? from day's caravan." -
Rabindranath Tagore
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     CentOS-docs mailing list
>>     CentOS-docs at centos.org <mailto:CentOS-docs at centos.org>
>>     https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
>>
>>
>>     *Attachments:*
>>
>>       * signature.asc
> 
>     These are both good pieces of feedback, we're considering some of
>     the wording here. Keep in mind that CentOS Stream is still ramping
>     up (even though we've come a long way already).
> 
>     We want to communicate a few things like:
>     - CentOS Stream is made up of content intended for the next minor
>     release of RHEL
> 
> 
> Is CentOS Stream based on the next minor or major release of RHEL?
> 
Neither. The next minor release of RHEL8 is based on CentOS Stream. i.e, 
what you see in the current CentOS Stream should/will be in minor RHEL 
release - RHEL 8.3.

On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 08:52:47AM +0100, Phil Perry
wrote:
> Neither. The next minor release of RHEL8 is based on CentOS Stream. i.e,
> what you see in the current CentOS Stream should/will be in minor RHEL
> release - RHEL 8.3.
What I think is unclear is that the original text mentions Fedora.
So, saying it's 'midstream' between CentOS and Fedora makes me think
you're taking package versions in Fedora and building it on/for
CentOS.

I'll also mention that the word 'stream' is being heavily abused by
CentOS at this point.  

I realize that a lot of work goes into taking Fedora stuff and putting
into RHEL, so I wouldn't want to step on that.

-- 
Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>

On 9/9/20 9:28 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 08:52:47AM +0100, Phil Perry wrote:
>> Neither. The next minor release of RHEL8 is based on CentOS Stream.
i.e,
>> what you see in the current CentOS Stream should/will be in minor RHEL
>> release - RHEL 8.3.
> 
> What I think is unclear is that the original text mentions Fedora.
> So, saying it's 'midstream' between CentOS and Fedora makes me
think
> you're taking package versions in Fedora and building it on/for
> CentOS.
That speaks to the other audience that we have to cover, the RHEL
maintainers who will actually be using CentOS Stream as the development
location for the next minor release of RHEL.

Those folks have an 'upstream first' mindset, ideally changes make it
into actual upstream projects and included in Fedora as part of the
regular work that they do. One message we need to keep here is that
Stream isn't a shortcut around those upstream-first principles.
> 
> I'll also mention that the word 'stream' is being heavily
abused by
> CentOS at this point.  
No disagreement there.
> 
> I realize that a lot of work goes into taking Fedora stuff and putting
> into RHEL, so I wouldn't want to step on that.
> 
--Brian

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:53 AM Phil Perry <pperry at elrepo.org> wrote:
> On 09/09/2020 07:15, Dominik Holler wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:05 AM Brian Stinson <brian at bstinson.com
> > <mailto:brian at bstinson.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     __
> >     On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, at 14:26, Mason Loring Bliss wrote:
> >>     On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 05:28:58PM -0400, Jonathan Billings
wrote:
> >>
> >>     > This is pretty misleading. Isn't Stream just a
collection of
> >>     repos that
> >>     > offer pre-release packages for the next RHEL point
release? It's
> >>     not a
> >>     > midstream between Fedora and RHEL.
> >>
> >>     Along those lines, if someone's adjusting text in there,
I'd tend
> >>     to think
> >>     "rolling release" indicates that one could go from
RHEL 8 to 9
> >>     without a
> >>     reinstall, but unless something's changed, major version
moves
> >>     will require
> >>     a reinstall, just like standard CentOS.
> >>
> >>     I'd love to learn that my understanding is outdated!
> >>
> >>     --
> >>     Mason Loring Bliss   ((  "In the drowsy dark cave of the
mind dreams
> >>     mason at blisses.org <mailto:mason at blisses.org>    
))  build  their
> >>     nest  with fragments  dropped
> >>     http://blisses.org/  ((   from day's caravan." -
Rabindranath
> Tagore
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     CentOS-docs mailing list
> >>     CentOS-docs at centos.org <mailto:CentOS-docs at
centos.org>
> >>     https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
> >>
> >>
> >>     *Attachments:*
> >>
> >>       * signature.asc
> >
> >     These are both good pieces of feedback, we're considering some
of
> >     the wording here. Keep in mind that CentOS Stream is still ramping
> >     up (even though we've come a long way already).
> >
> >     We want to communicate a few things like:
> >     - CentOS Stream is made up of content intended for the next minor
> >     release of RHEL
> >
> >
> > Is CentOS Stream based on the next minor or major release of RHEL?
> >
>
> Neither. The next minor release of RHEL8 is based on CentOS Stream. i.e,
> what you see in the current CentOS Stream should/will be in minor RHEL
> release - RHEL 8.3.
>
>
How CentOS Stream is going to handle RHEL 9?
Will there be a CentOS Stream 8 and CentOS Stream 9?

> _______________________________________________
> CentOS-docs mailing list
> CentOS-docs at centos.org
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
>
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On Wed, Sep 09, 2020 at 05:05:18PM +0200, Dominik Holler wrote:
>    How CentOS Stream is going to handle RHEL 9?
>    Will there be a CentOS Stream 8 and CentOS Stream 9?
That's answered here:

   
https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOSStream#What_happens_when_CentOS_Stream_switches_from_RHEL_8_to_RHEL_9_based_content.3F

-- 
Mason Loring Bliss  ((   If I have not seen as far as others, it is because
 mason at blisses.org   ))   giants were standing on my shoulders. - Hal Abelson
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