Hey guys, Philippe had some interesting points about the website: 1. Keep the home page simple with all content fitting within 1280 x 1024 2. Use a catchy design (need some help here) 3. Accentuate that Camping is about Ruby (maybe also include the ruby logo somewhere) 4. Have a brief note about the connection to _why and a link to a page explaining the history of Camping with further links to _why''s other sites 5. Encourage people to try it by capitalizing on some of Camping''s strengths: - Fast to learn - requires only basic Ruby skills - Much simpler than Rails but more structure than Sinatra/Padrino - Lightning fast and memory efficient allowing fast and efficient sites - Can evolve from simple file to organized directory structure - Can layer in more features later using persistence and choice of view engines 6. How about using some kind of an animated (auto advancing) slideshow to highlight some of the benefits? See an example at: http://blog.monnet-usa.com/?p=276 7. How about a page on learning with a link to the book as well as a list of links for other tutorials or short explanations on key topics (e.g. how to do migrations, how to use include/extend, how to use different view engines, etc.)? 8. How about a page about plugins with some brief description of their intent? 9. I would love for us to include _why''s cartoons in some of the sub pages ;-) Now, the more I look at this list (and my own thoughts about the new camping site) I realize that we''re talking about two different things: * A site to attract new users * A site to inform regular users It looks like my attempt (http://whywentcamping.judofyr.net/) tries to target the latter, while Philippe targeted the former (http://rubycamping.monnet-usa.com/). Both sites serves a purpose and I believe both are equally important. -- Here''s what I propose: We split the site into two parts. We turn what I''ve created into a wiki. Everyone are welcome to edit and add their own content. Then we take Philippe''s ideas/design/site and turn it into ruby-camping.com or whywentcamping.com or whatnot. It probably doesn''t need to be more than a single page. What''d ya think? // Magnus Holm
Yeah, I agree that it makes sense to have two sites, one to promote Camping and one to serve as the official reference. And a wiki would be very convenient for that. On 7/8/2010 1:55 PM, Magnus Holm wrote:> Hey guys, > > Philippe had some interesting points about the website: > > 1. Keep the home page simple with all content fitting within 1280 x 1024 > 2. Use a catchy design (need some help here) > 3. Accentuate that Camping is about Ruby (maybe also include the ruby > logo somewhere) > 4. Have a brief note about the connection to _why and a link to a page > explaining the history of Camping with further links to _why''s other > sites > 5. Encourage people to try it by capitalizing on some of Camping''s strengths: > - Fast to learn - requires only basic Ruby skills > - Much simpler than Rails but more structure than Sinatra/Padrino > - Lightning fast and memory efficient allowing fast and efficient sites > - Can evolve from simple file to organized directory structure > - Can layer in more features later using persistence and choice of view engines > 6. How about using some kind of an animated (auto advancing) slideshow > to highlight some of the benefits? See an example at: > http://blog.monnet-usa.com/?p=276 > 7. How about a page on learning with a link to the book as well as a > list of links for other tutorials or short explanations on key topics > (e.g. how to do migrations, how to use include/extend, how to use > different view engines, etc.)? > 8. How about a page about plugins with some brief description of their intent? > 9. I would love for us to include _why''s cartoons in some of the sub pages ;-) > > Now, the more I look at this list (and my own thoughts about the new > camping site) I realize that we''re talking about two different things: > > * A site to attract new users > * A site to inform regular users > > It looks like my attempt (http://whywentcamping.judofyr.net/) tries to > target the latter, while Philippe targeted the former > (http://rubycamping.monnet-usa.com/). Both sites serves a purpose and > I believe both are equally important. > > -- > > Here''s what I propose: We split the site into two parts. We turn what > I''ve created into a wiki. Everyone are welcome to edit and add their > own content. > > Then we take Philippe''s ideas/design/site and turn it into > ruby-camping.com or whywentcamping.com or whatnot. It probably doesn''t > need to be more than a single page. > > What''d ya think? > > // Magnus Holm > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/camping-list/attachments/20100708/5089196a/attachment.html>
I agree to the separation as well. A site that introduces camping with a simple example/tutorial and that links to a wiki (with more advanced stuff) and the mailing list is a good way to go about it. Dave On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Philippe Monnet <ruby at monnet-usa.com> wrote:> Yeah, I agree that it makes sense to have two sites, one to promote Camping > and one to serve as the official reference. And a wiki would be very > convenient for that. > > On 7/8/2010 1:55 PM, Magnus Holm wrote: > > Hey guys, > > Philippe had some interesting points about the website: > > 1. Keep the home page simple with all content fitting within 1280 x 1024 > 2. Use a catchy design (need some help here) > 3. Accentuate that Camping is about Ruby (maybe also include the ruby > logo somewhere) > 4. Have a brief note about the connection to _why and a link to a page > explaining the history of Camping with further links to _why''s other > sites > 5. Encourage people to try it by capitalizing on some of Camping''s > strengths: > - Fast to learn - requires only basic Ruby skills > - Much simpler than Rails but more structure than Sinatra/Padrino > - Lightning fast and memory efficient allowing fast and efficient sites > - Can evolve from simple file to organized directory structure > - Can layer in more features later using persistence and choice of view > engines > 6. How about using some kind of an animated (auto advancing) slideshow > to highlight some of the benefits? See an example at: > http://blog.monnet-usa.com/?p=276 > 7. How about a page on learning with a link to the book as well as a > list of links for other tutorials or short explanations on key topics > (e.g. how to do migrations, how to use include/extend, how to use > different view engines, etc.)? > 8. How about a page about plugins with some brief description of their > intent? > 9. I would love for us to include _why''s cartoons in some of the sub pages > ;-) > > Now, the more I look at this list (and my own thoughts about the new > camping site) I realize that we''re talking about two different things: > > * A site to attract new users > * A site to inform regular users > > It looks like my attempt (http://whywentcamping.judofyr.net/) tries to > target the latter, while Philippe targeted the former > (http://rubycamping.monnet-usa.com/). Both sites serves a purpose and > I believe both are equally important. > > -- > > Here''s what I propose: We split the site into two parts. We turn what > I''ve created into a wiki. Everyone are welcome to edit and add their > own content. > > Then we take Philippe''s ideas/design/site and turn it into > ruby-camping.com or whywentcamping.com or whatnot. It probably doesn''t > need to be more than a single page. > > What''d ya think? > > // Magnus Holm > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list >-- Dave
I agree wholly on the design front, and would like to contribute cartoony doodles and simple (not Backend Web Developer simple, but Designer Simple) web designs in vaguely _why''s quirky fun style, if you guys are up for that. I''m currently rather more focused on Hackety Hack''s web stuff, but in a couple of weeks when I get tired of drawing fruit bats and laser-breathing dinosaurs, Maybe camping would be a fun place to doodle? :) If I forget, poke me @Bluebie. @Judofyr - if you want to chat, I am a at creativepony.com on msn/jabber these days. :) Oh, and I don''t know what the others think of this idea, but there is some talk of HetyH having a forum in the next refresh of it''s website. How would you guys feel about being a part of that? I''m rather fond of the idea of reuniting the old _why community in some common shared space like that, though I''d fully understand if you guys feel it''d be a smelly situation to be a category in another project''s forum. Maybe instead - if you guys are pro-forum - there could be a website.. perhaps named something like ''Whyism'', a special little cult of _why place for us all to hang out and talk about all his old projects, and our new stuff too. To keep the spirit of it all alive? ? Jenna Fox http://creativepony.com On 09/07/2010, at 5:55 AM, Magnus Holm wrote:> Hey guys, > > Philippe had some interesting points about the website: > > 1. Keep the home page simple with all content fitting within 1280 x 1024 > 2. Use a catchy design (need some help here) > 3. Accentuate that Camping is about Ruby (maybe also include the ruby > logo somewhere) > 4. Have a brief note about the connection to _why and a link to a page > explaining the history of Camping with further links to _why''s other > sites > 5. Encourage people to try it by capitalizing on some of Camping''s strengths: > - Fast to learn - requires only basic Ruby skills > - Much simpler than Rails but more structure than Sinatra/Padrino > - Lightning fast and memory efficient allowing fast and efficient sites > - Can evolve from simple file to organized directory structure > - Can layer in more features later using persistence and choice of view engines > 6. How about using some kind of an animated (auto advancing) slideshow > to highlight some of the benefits? See an example at: > http://blog.monnet-usa.com/?p=276 > 7. How about a page on learning with a link to the book as well as a > list of links for other tutorials or short explanations on key topics > (e.g. how to do migrations, how to use include/extend, how to use > different view engines, etc.)? > 8. How about a page about plugins with some brief description of their intent? > 9. I would love for us to include _why''s cartoons in some of the sub pages ;-) > > Now, the more I look at this list (and my own thoughts about the new > camping site) I realize that we''re talking about two different things: > > * A site to attract new users > * A site to inform regular users > > It looks like my attempt (http://whywentcamping.judofyr.net/) tries to > target the latter, while Philippe targeted the former > (http://rubycamping.monnet-usa.com/). Both sites serves a purpose and > I believe both are equally important. > > -- > > Here''s what I propose: We split the site into two parts. We turn what > I''ve created into a wiki. Everyone are welcome to edit and add their > own content. > > Then we take Philippe''s ideas/design/site and turn it into > ruby-camping.com or whywentcamping.com or whatnot. It probably doesn''t > need to be more than a single page. > > What''d ya think? > > // Magnus Holm > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
Another passing thought: It''d be very much in the spirit of freeform fun little hacks if the camping website included a section of user created apps. They would need to be moderated somehow, unless someone were to set up a try-rubyish highly sandboxed environment to run them. It just seems like there''d be no better way to show what Camping is all about than to have it''s very own website full of fun little examples of camping apps, with a way to see the source code of each right in there. If you guys had something like that, i''d love to contribute some quirky little multiplayer games, and an extremely simple chat thing. :) What with rack mounts, this should be easy, right? Why did say at art & code that he didn''t really care if the code editor part of HetyH was really good - what mattered was the sharing. The forum. The code messaging system. The apps which could talk to each other over the web through the various APIs. That was the important part of hackety hack. I think that''s the important part of camping as well. The main reason I use Camping over Sinatra and the likes is the way it feels so warm and fuzzy, and I know if I have any troubles, I get to come talk to all you awesome people. :) If we had the sandboxed thing, it''d be fairly trivial to include a little cli app in the camping gem to upload the app in to a whyism or hetyh or whatever account, where it could sit in a little bin of recent uploads, and be attached to forum posts, or shared out like tinyurls. The most important part of all that is kids. Kids don''t have web servers. It''s all well and good to have camping ourselves, but if we''re to think for one minute that we''re helping kids learn ruby (which after all, was _why''s mission), we''ve got to be offering some fairly easy way for them to host this stuff. Does anyone know much about sandboxing? Anyone know if it''d be particularly difficult to do things like monkeypatch the IO class to effectively chroot and secure a camping app? Can we disable `system calls` too? What''s involved in making something like that viable? Hosts like Dreamhost seem to already be making use of Passenger to dynamically allocate ruby processes to apps, so they can be booted up when requested and shut down after they idle for a minute. :) ? Jenna Fox http://creativepony.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/camping-list/attachments/20100714/f4946e8e/attachment.html>
Jenna, it would be fun to incorporate your cartoons in both the promo site and the wiki. On 7/13/2010 8:34 PM, Jenna Fox wrote:> I agree wholly on the design front, and would like to contribute cartoony doodles and simple (not Backend Web Developer simple, but Designer Simple) web designs in vaguely _why''s quirky fun style, if you guys are up for that. I''m currently rather more focused on Hackety Hack''s web stuff, but in a couple of weeks when I get tired of drawing fruit bats and laser-breathing dinosaurs, Maybe camping would be a fun place to doodle? :) > > If I forget, poke me @Bluebie. > > @Judofyr - if you want to chat, I am a at creativepony.com on msn/jabber these days. :) > > Oh, and I don''t know what the others think of this idea, but there is some talk of HetyH having a forum in the next refresh of it''s website. How would you guys feel about being a part of that? I''m rather fond of the idea of reuniting the old _why community in some common shared space like that, though I''d fully understand if you guys feel it''d be a smelly situation to be a category in another project''s forum. > > Maybe instead - if you guys are pro-forum - there could be a website.. perhaps named something like ''Whyism'', a special little cult of _why place for us all to hang out and talk about all his old projects, and our new stuff too. To keep the spirit of it all alive? > > ? > Jenna Fox > http://creativepony.com > > On 09/07/2010, at 5:55 AM, Magnus Holm wrote: > > >> Hey guys, >> >> Philippe had some interesting points about the website: >> >> 1. Keep the home page simple with all content fitting within 1280 x 1024 >> 2. Use a catchy design (need some help here) >> 3. Accentuate that Camping is about Ruby (maybe also include the ruby >> logo somewhere) >> 4. Have a brief note about the connection to _why and a link to a page >> explaining the history of Camping with further links to _why''s other >> sites >> 5. Encourage people to try it by capitalizing on some of Camping''s strengths: >> - Fast to learn - requires only basic Ruby skills >> - Much simpler than Rails but more structure than Sinatra/Padrino >> - Lightning fast and memory efficient allowing fast and efficient sites >> - Can evolve from simple file to organized directory structure >> - Can layer in more features later using persistence and choice of view engines >> 6. How about using some kind of an animated (auto advancing) slideshow >> to highlight some of the benefits? See an example at: >> http://blog.monnet-usa.com/?p=276 >> 7. How about a page on learning with a link to the book as well as a >> list of links for other tutorials or short explanations on key topics >> (e.g. how to do migrations, how to use include/extend, how to use >> different view engines, etc.)? >> 8. How about a page about plugins with some brief description of their intent? >> 9. I would love for us to include _why''s cartoons in some of the sub pages ;-) >> >> Now, the more I look at this list (and my own thoughts about the new >> camping site) I realize that we''re talking about two different things: >> >> * A site to attract new users >> * A site to inform regular users >> >> It looks like my attempt (http://whywentcamping.judofyr.net/) tries to >> target the latter, while Philippe targeted the former >> (http://rubycamping.monnet-usa.com/). Both sites serves a purpose and >> I believe both are equally important. >> >> -- >> >> Here''s what I propose: We split the site into two parts. We turn what >> I''ve created into a wiki. Everyone are welcome to edit and add their >> own content. >> >> Then we take Philippe''s ideas/design/site and turn it into >> ruby-camping.com or whywentcamping.com or whatnot. It probably doesn''t >> need to be more than a single page. >> >> What''d ya think? >> >> // Magnus Holm >> _______________________________________________ >> Camping-list mailing list >> Camping-list at rubyforge.org >> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list >> > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/camping-list/attachments/20100717/bb7cfb1f/attachment-0001.html>
I think having a section off of the promo site (and linked from the wiki too) to showcase simple user-created apps is a great idea as I have not seen that concept on other sites. I believe Magnus is building a TryCamping thing too which would be awesome too. I agree with the fact that making it easier for kids/teens to play with Camping would be fantastic. I am not sure exactly how to make that happen but you are onto something with monkey patching part of Ruby too make it safer / easier to do that. /!\ warning - stream of consciousness coming up ... How about if we used a key-value store (like CouchDB/MongoDB/TokyoCabinet/...) as an application repository? Here is a potential scenario assuming a Camping "enthusiast" already has an app working locally on their box: 1-Enthusiast chooses to create an app in the "CampingGround" / sandbox 2-We create a definition for the app as well as a source file based on an minimal template 3-We store both in the key-value db 4-We mount the app and wire the reloader to look for timestamp changes on the key-value store record 5-Enthusiast uploads the code - saves commit the code changes to the key-value store 6-Enthusiast runs the mounted app Maybe we could convince a host like Heroku to facilitate this. Is this crazy? Any other ideas? -Philippe On 7/13/2010 8:49 PM, Jenna Fox wrote:> Another passing thought: It''d be very much in the spirit of freeform > fun little hacks if the camping website included a section of user > created apps. They would need to be moderated somehow, unless someone > were to set up a try-rubyish highly sandboxed environment to run them. > It just seems like there''d be no better way to show what Camping is > all about than to have it''s very own website full of fun little > examples of camping apps, with a way to see the source code of each > right in there. If you guys had something like that, i''d love to > contribute some quirky little multiplayer games, and an extremely > simple chat thing. :) > > What with rack mounts, this should be easy, right? > > Why did say at art & code that he didn''t really care if the code > editor part of HetyH was really good - what mattered was the sharing. > The forum. The code messaging system. The apps which could talk to > each other over the web through the various APIs. That was the > important part of hackety hack. I think that''s the important part of > camping as well. The main reason I use Camping over Sinatra and the > likes is the way it feels so warm and fuzzy, and I know if I have any > troubles, I get to come talk to all you awesome people. :) > > If we had the sandboxed thing, it''d be fairly trivial to include a > little cli app in the camping gem to upload the app in to a whyism or > hetyh or whatever account, where it could sit in a little bin of > recent uploads, and be attached to forum posts, or shared out like > tinyurls. > > The most important part of all that is kids. Kids don''t have web > servers. It''s all well and good to have camping ourselves, but if > we''re to think for one minute that we''re helping kids learn ruby > (which after all, was _why''s mission), we''ve got to be offering some > fairly easy way for them to host this stuff. > > Does anyone know much about sandboxing? Anyone know if it''d be > particularly difficult to do things like monkeypatch the IO class to > effectively chroot and secure a camping app? Can we disable `system > calls` too? What''s involved in making something like that viable? > Hosts like Dreamhost seem to already be making use of Passenger to > dynamically allocate ruby processes to apps, so they can be booted up > when requested and shut down after they idle for a minute. :) > > ? > Jenna Fox > http://creativepony.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/camping-list/attachments/20100717/6779dc8b/attachment.html>
I love the idea of having Key/Value databases available to camping apps as a standard thing on the platform. They aren''t the same thing as a filesystem though, and I don''t think we should pretend otherwise. If we don''t want to give users filesystem access, that''s *fine*, even though I don''t see why we shouldn''t. What about this - We make a sister project, ForeverHash, which works just like a normal hash except that when you .new it you have to give it a name, like ForeverHash.new(:people), resulting in people.db existing some place in the filesystem. We could have a campers-toolkit gem which would default to using yaml or marshal or whatever to shove that stuff in a file on close, and read it in on launch. When stuff like TokyoCabinet is available, it''d just magically be faster and awesomer. campers-toolkit could have tons of neat little bonus toys like that. Thing is, Heroku is this big scary thing which is all about performance and big deployments and commercialisation and not at all about learning and hacking and making stupid little games and programs that do your math homework for you (that''s why I learnt to write basic!). We already have Heroku. We don''t need another abstraction to it. Fake filesystem atop a key/value database would be a fun hack, but it''d go crazy with things like the exotic file locks sqlite uses. I propose this: We settle on the idea that we are in fact an awesome bunch and that camping still has that wonderful educational essence of it''s beginnings, and that being loosely connected to _why, we already have some weight with educators. There are computer labs full to the brim with boxes doing nearly nothing in schools all around the place! The internet itself was practically born of excessive computing power at universities needing to find something to do with itself! So I propose we stop eating the little scraps of free stuff the capitalist processes that drive services like heroku and dreamhost produce, and really try and pester the educational systems of the world - see if they''ll give us a server and plug it in to some pipes to get this idea going. If we can get a dedicated server somewhere, making secured little app hosting is trivial and fun and super easy to do! Web hosting friends inform me that linuxes have no worries at all with hundreds of thousands of user accounts. That''s how tryruby worked way back when - it made a new user account when you entered your first command, ran it, and removed the account if it idled out. That''s how try ruby was secure! All we need to do is use the same tools shared webhosts have been using for decades, like unix file permissions and apache or ngynix and passenger and chroot and a user account per user or app, and we have a totally viable way to do this. Passenger will run as many processes as each app needs, and shut them down when nobody is using that app. The ruby processes can run under that user''s account, and we can automatically apply permissions to the files as they''re uploaded and updated. Then we just short out the system/``/chown type commands in the ruby process with a little bootstrap code added to the rackup and we''ve got it sorted. The tech here is easy and fun. Getting a server to run it on could be tricky - but we have avenues to explore. We NEED to get a good website up with a blog (I suggest a tumblr, because it doesn''t cost anything, can have group committers, all the features we need, and it too is connected to the rich heritage of _why :) Then we can put the callout. Once a plan is formed for the tech and the look of the thing, we can get a blog post up explaining the idea and asking for help, and start mailing it around to universities and schools, asking if they have any extra servers they might donate to the cause. Carnegie Mellon physically hosted art && code. Maybe they''d host us too! // Sidebar: Okay, so yaml and marshal would suck as a backend because it''d go crazy without any obvious reason if the user launched multiple processes, as they may well do if using lighttpd. Still, it doesn''t have to be *fast*, so maybe there''s some sort of compramise to be had? Marshal the values, and store them in some sort of indexy thing, where we could use filesystem locks to keep from writing over eachother, and garbage collect / compress every now and then. That could work really well, and could be nice pure ruby. Mmmm. Is this crazy? Am I a nut for thinking that a simple multiprocess safe key/value store would actually be really easy to do? I''ve played with the filesystem as a storage medium a fair bit.. it seems like it should be almost trivial! Maybe I should make this right now! On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Philippe Monnet <ruby at monnet-usa.com>wrote:> I think having a section off of the promo site (and linked from the wiki > too) to showcase simple user-created apps is a great idea as I have not seen > that concept on other sites. > I believe Magnus is building a TryCamping thing too which would be awesome > too. > > I agree with the fact that making it easier for kids/teens to play with > Camping would be fantastic. > I am not sure exactly how to make that happen but you are onto something > with monkey patching part of Ruby too make it safer / easier to do that. > > /!\ warning - stream of consciousness coming up ... > > How about if we used a key-value store (like > CouchDB/MongoDB/TokyoCabinet/...) as an application repository? Here is a > potential scenario assuming a Camping "enthusiast" already has an app > working locally on their box: > 1-Enthusiast chooses to create an app in the "CampingGround" / sandbox > 2-We create a definition for the app as well as a source file based on an > minimal template > 3-We store both in the key-value db > 4-We mount the app and wire the reloader to look for timestamp changes on > the key-value store record > 5-Enthusiast uploads the code - saves commit the code changes to the > key-value store > 6-Enthusiast runs the mounted app > > Maybe we could convince a host like Heroku to facilitate this. > Is this crazy? Any other ideas? > > -Philippe > > > On 7/13/2010 8:49 PM, Jenna Fox wrote: > > Another passing thought: It''d be very much in the spirit of freeform fun > little hacks if the camping website included a section of user created apps. > They would need to be moderated somehow, unless someone were to set up a > try-rubyish highly sandboxed environment to run them. It just seems like > there''d be no better way to show what Camping is all about than to have it''s > very own website full of fun little examples of camping apps, with a way to > see the source code of each right in there. If you guys had something like > that, i''d love to contribute some quirky little multiplayer games, and an > extremely simple chat thing. :) > > What with rack mounts, this should be easy, right? > > Why did say at art & code that he didn''t really care if the code editor > part of HetyH was really good - what mattered was the sharing. The forum. > The code messaging system. The apps which could talk to each other over the > web through the various APIs. That was the important part of hackety hack. I > think that''s the important part of camping as well. The main reason I use > Camping over Sinatra and the likes is the way it feels so warm and fuzzy, > and I know if I have any troubles, I get to come talk to all you awesome > people. :) > > If we had the sandboxed thing, it''d be fairly trivial to include a little > cli app in the camping gem to upload the app in to a whyism or hetyh or > whatever account, where it could sit in a little bin of recent uploads, and > be attached to forum posts, or shared out like tinyurls. > > The most important part of all that is kids. Kids don''t have web servers. > It''s all well and good to have camping ourselves, but if we''re to think for > one minute that we''re helping kids learn ruby (which after all, was _why''s > mission), we''ve got to be offering some fairly easy way for them to host > this stuff. > > Does anyone know much about sandboxing? Anyone know if it''d be particularly > difficult to do things like monkeypatch the IO class to effectively chroot > and secure a camping app? Can we disable `system calls` too? What''s involved > in making something like that viable? Hosts like Dreamhost seem to already > be making use of Passenger to dynamically allocate ruby processes to apps, > so they can be booted up when requested and shut down after they idle for a > minute. :) > > ? > Jenna Fox > http://creativepony.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.orghttp://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/camping-list/attachments/20100720/d9be4490/attachment-0001.html>
Jenna - just to say I really agree with your post and - but for some pressing paid work - would respond in more detail. The education thing is a real opportunity - Dave Everitt> I propose this: We settle on the idea that we are in fact an > awesome bunch and that camping still has that wonderful educational > essence of it''s beginnings, and that being loosely connected to > _why, we already have some weight with educators. There are > computer labs full to the brim with boxes doing nearly nothing in > schools all around the place!
it began with camping, Matju had been using Ruby in Gridflow since ages before, so he pointed me to poignant guide and i noticed the announcement on redhanded and tried out> store them in some sort of indexy thing, where we could use filesystem locks > to keep from writing over eachother, and garbage collect / compress every > now and then. That could work really well, and could be nice pure ruby. > Mmmm. Is this crazy? Am I a nut for thinking that a simple multiprocess safe > key/value store would actually be really easy to do? I''ve played with the > filesystem as a storage medium a fair bit.. it seems like it should be > almost trivial! Maybe I should make this right now!eventualy i had wiped out all the varying parts with replacements, but it is important to remember Camping provided the scaffolding to get off the ground went 1.9x Ruby because of proper lexical scoping of blocks (mainly) + fast but that broke Markaby..and there was all this code in there with Builder and such and god knows what i was suposed to fix (multipled by metaprogramming tweak-ness) Ruby''s Hash/Array connstructors obviated a custom template-language parser or meta-methodery hacks (magic?) http://element.rubyforge.org/git?p=element.git;a=blob;f=ruby/H.rb so sqlite databases being locked by other processes, mysql servers that werent running or had a wrong password (or hardpowerd and required myisamcks). then redland''s SWIG wrappers segfaulting ruby with memory errors back to FS. i guess "E" class is sort of a "jquery for a filesystem" sitting at convergence of HTTP URIs, and filesystem paths so i want to read today''s email (delivered by getmail, with a 1 line procmailrc rule to put into dirs by date, and cloud-persisted across phones/netbooks with rsync/ceph/nfs) so GET /mail, it goes to thiS: fn ''/mail/GET'',->e,r{[303,{Location: ''/m/''+(Time.now.strftime ''%Y/%m/%d'')+''/*?''+(r ?r[''QUERY_STRING'']:'''')}]} which constructs today''s path, and redirects: GET /m/2010/07/20/*?view=threads there are no ''routes'' just a mapping from URI to resourceSet. which includes globbing, ''fragments'' of documents (after #), and depth-first traversal (for pagination of large quantities of stuff, or sorted values) so that glob all todays mails, extracts the triples and creates a (Hash) model alive for the request. views are specified in QS, so ?view=threads, you get a basic overview: http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss187/ix9/hyper/2010-03-27-051943_1280x800_scrot.png triple sources are functions that yield 3 values, and exist for most of the comon things. so your message, AANLkTimtVV0C39kyPJYJ-ve1uXHGRH1TsC6x3Q8G-IpB at mail.gmail.com has an ID, and URI and the Filesystem cant just store this as is, unless you want 3 million files in a dir. so using sometihng git-like: irb(main):005:0> E(''AANLkTimtVV0C39kyPJYJ-ve1uXHGRH1TsC6x3Q8G-IpB at mail.gmail.com'').d => "/var/E/ee/dc/QUFOTGtUaW10VlYwQzM5a3lQSllKLXZlMXVYSEdSSDFUc0M2eDNROEctSXBCQG1haWwuZ21haWwuY29t" does its best to use a path similar to the URI, to not nuke everything outright irb(main):006:0> E(''http://camping.org'').d => "/var/http://camping.org" in addition to these paths, theres a path of metadata _about_ this path irb(main):007:0> E(''http://camping.org'').u => #<E:0x000000015ebfd8 @uri="/http://camping.org/<>", @graph=nil> so , in this way, you can create indexed properties: eg, mail references are ugly index paths like: /usr/src/index/<>/http:/rdfs.org/sioc/ns#reference/<>/E/e0/43/MTI3OTYyODYzMi4zMjcxLjEwLmNhbWVsQG1pZGdhcmQ so when i request a message, provide a query in the QS: fn ''data/thread'',->d,_,m{d.walk SIOC+''reference'',m} this walks those index paths and constructs the entire thread def walk p,m={},v={} m.merge! memoModel v[uri]=true ((attr p)||[]).concat(((E p).po self)||[]).map{|r| r.E.walk p,m,v if !v[r.uri]} m end ..theres functions to go to/from memory models, lookup FS indexes, and so on, in probably camping-style (ive been told my code is ''obfuscated'' anwyas) some other doc @ http://blog.whats-your.name/public/carmen.html creating a 265 message thread including finding all the messages and rendering a view takes about a second on my laptop, which is fine for my needs. you could use the resourceSet X mtimes as a cache key since all data is (convertable to/from) RDF you could go crazy with 4store and SPARQL if you needed more insane indexing options so yeah, let me know what you come up with, im interested in checking it out if a darn OS booted, you have a FS..,
Ok I would really like to get the promo site going so that we have
something up and running before Why Day (Aug 19th per
http://whyday.org/). I propose the following:
1. I can go ahead and buy the ruby-camping.com domain - should
someone also buy the .org equivalent? I think the promo site has to have
a straightforward name related to ruby and camping (similar to
ruby-lang) to make it easy for people to remember the site or search for
it. (We can use whywentcamping.com for something else like either the
doc site or the site focusing on learning and hosting simple apps - see
Jenna''s ideas on this)
2. Until we know what other things we want to do with
ruby-camping.com in terms of showcasing apps and all, I can either host
the site:
a) at my host (1&1 - ok for now with straight content only -
the downside is I will be the bottleneck for updates
b) or deploy it on Heroku - we can have multiple collaborators
to push content via git. This would also give us more flexibility in the
long run (like diff versions of Ruby, db, plugins, etc - and maybe we
can get sponsored
3. For the time being I will leave the site as straight HTML and
Javascript (we can switch it to Camping+Tilt later)
4. I will create a ruby-camping.com project under camping in GitHub
and upload the content. This way anyone can contribute to the design -
wink wink uh-hmm Jenna/Dave/Matt/... ;-)
Let me know if you''re ok with this or provide alternatives.
I''d like to get this done this week-end.
Philippe (@techarch)
On 7/8/2010 1:55 PM, Magnus Holm wrote:> Hey guys,
>
> Philippe had some interesting points about the website:
>
> 1. Keep the home page simple with all content fitting within 1280 x 1024
> 2. Use a catchy design (need some help here)
> 3. Accentuate that Camping is about Ruby (maybe also include the ruby
> logo somewhere)
> 4. Have a brief note about the connection to _why and a link to a page
> explaining the history of Camping with further links to _why''s
other
> sites
> 5. Encourage people to try it by capitalizing on some of Camping''s
strengths:
> - Fast to learn - requires only basic Ruby skills
> - Much simpler than Rails but more structure than Sinatra/Padrino
> - Lightning fast and memory efficient allowing fast and efficient sites
> - Can evolve from simple file to organized directory structure
> - Can layer in more features later using persistence and choice of view
engines
> 6. How about using some kind of an animated (auto advancing) slideshow
> to highlight some of the benefits? See an example at:
> http://blog.monnet-usa.com/?p=276
> 7. How about a page on learning with a link to the book as well as a
> list of links for other tutorials or short explanations on key topics
> (e.g. how to do migrations, how to use include/extend, how to use
> different view engines, etc.)?
> 8. How about a page about plugins with some brief description of their
intent?
> 9. I would love for us to include _why''s cartoons in some of the
sub pages ;-)
>
> Now, the more I look at this list (and my own thoughts about the new
> camping site) I realize that we''re talking about two different
things:
>
> * A site to attract new users
> * A site to inform regular users
>
> It looks like my attempt (http://whywentcamping.judofyr.net/) tries to
> target the latter, while Philippe targeted the former
> (http://rubycamping.monnet-usa.com/). Both sites serves a purpose and
> I believe both are equally important.
>
> --
>
> Here''s what I propose: We split the site into two parts. We turn
what
> I''ve created into a wiki. Everyone are welcome to edit and add
their
> own content.
>
> Then we take Philippe''s ideas/design/site and turn it into
> ruby-camping.com or whywentcamping.com or whatnot. It probably
doesn''t
> need to be more than a single page.
>
> What''d ya think?
>
> // Magnus Holm
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>
>
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I don''t know if it''s available or not, but why not campingrb.com rather than ruby-camping.com? Many of the other small web frameworks follow this url scheme (sinatrarb and padrinorb). Or maybe not. I just think it''s an interesting url for Ruby projects. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/camping-list/attachments/20100723/297677d2/attachment.html>
Hi Steve - I really like that idea. Of course, someone (us) is going to have to actually purchase the domain at some point :-) - Dave E> I don''t know if it''s available or not, but why not campingrb.com > rather than ruby-camping.com? Many of the other small web > frameworks follow this url scheme (sinatrarb and padrinorb).
My preference would be to have Ruby explicitly mentioned in the name and a clear easy-to-read url. This makes it a bit more SEO friendly too which is important for a promo site. IMHO suffixing with rb is not very visually attractive. On 7/23/2010 9:39 AM, Steve Klabnik wrote:> I don''t know if it''s available or not, but why not campingrb.com > <http://campingrb.com> rather than ruby-camping.com > <http://ruby-camping.com>? Many of the other small web frameworks > follow this url scheme (sinatrarb and padrinorb). > > Or maybe not. I just think it''s an interesting url for Ruby projects. > > > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/camping-list/attachments/20100723/11ec323b/attachment.html>
Anyone know who did this: http://camping.tumblr.com/ ? Dave E> Jenna: I suggest a tumblr, because it doesn''t cost anything, can > have group committers, all the features we need, and it too is > connected to the rich heritage of _why :)
May not be attractive, but if it''s already a ruby-related meme, worth considering - Dave E On 23 Jul 2010, at 17:38, Philippe Monnet wrote:>> My preference would be to have Ruby explicitly mentioned in the >> name and a clear easy-to-read url. This makes it a bit more SEO >> friendly too which is important for a promo site. IMHO suffixing >> with rb is not very visually attractive. >> >> On 7/23/2010 9:39 AM, Steve Klabnik wrote: >>> >>> I don''t know if it''s available or not, but why not campingrb.com >>> rather than ruby-camping.com? Many of the other small web >>> frameworks follow this url scheme (sinatrarb and padrinorb). >>
Also in the spirit of SEO, maybe we just need to have multiple domain names all linking back or redirecting to ruby-camping.com. I am willing to buy and commit to ruby-camping.com so anyone else is free to buy campingrb.com or any other naming permutation they like. This way we can all have our cake and eat it too! Any objections at this point on me moving forward? On 7/23/2010 12:19 PM, Dave Everitt wrote:> May not be attractive, but if it''s already a ruby-related meme, worth > considering - Dave E > > On 23 Jul 2010, at 17:38, Philippe Monnet wrote: > >>> My preference would be to have Ruby explicitly mentioned in the name >>> and a clear easy-to-read url. This makes it a bit more SEO friendly >>> too which is important for a promo site. IMHO suffixing with rb is >>> not very visually attractive. >>> >>> On 7/23/2010 9:39 AM, Steve Klabnik wrote: >>>> >>>> I don''t know if it''s available or not, but why not campingrb.com >>>> rather than ruby-camping.com? Many of the other small web >>>> frameworks follow this url scheme (sinatrarb and padrinorb). >>> > > _______________________________________________ > Camping-list mailing list > Camping-list at rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/camping-list/attachments/20100725/f16b919a/attachment.html>
Not from me. ruby-camping.com is fine and I''m aware of the SEO implications. My offer of server space (on our Linux VPS + Ruby 1.9) still stands - Dave E> On 25 Jul 2010, at 16:04, Philippe Monnet wrote: > > Also in the spirit of SEO, maybe we just need to have multiple > domain names all linking back or redirecting to ruby-camping.com. I > am willing to buy and commit to ruby-camping.com so anyone else is > free to buy campingrb.com or any other naming permutation they > like. This way we can all have our cake and eat it too! > Any objections at this point on me moving forward? > >> On 7/23/2010 12:19 PM, Dave Everitt wrote: >> May not be attractive, but if it''s already a ruby-related meme, >> worth considering - Dave E >> >>> On 23 Jul 2010, at 17:38, Philippe Monnet wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> My preference would be to have Ruby explicitly mentioned in the >>>> name and a clear easy-to-read url. This makes it a bit more SEO >>>> friendly too which is important for a promo site. IMHO suffixing >>>> with rb is not very visually attractive. >>>> >>>>> On 7/23/2010 9:39 AM, Steve Klabnik wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I don''t know if it''s available or not, but why not >>>>> campingrb.com rather than ruby-camping.com? Many of the other >>>>> small web frameworks follow this url scheme (sinatrarb and >>>>> padrinorb). >