Francis Galiegue
2010-Sep-28 14:27 UTC
Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
Here is a preview of the survey. I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn''t fit on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones. Please comment! Click on the following link to test this survey: http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb -------------------------- Powered by SurveyGizmo - http://www.surveygizmo.com This message was sent to you at the request of fgaliegue@gmail.com for the sole purpose of testing a survey. You have not been added to a mailing list. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
David Pottage
2010-Sep-28 14:57 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
On 28/09/10 15:27, Francis Galiegue wrote:> Here is a preview of the survey. > > I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn''t fit on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones. > > Please comment! > > Click on the following link to test this survey: > http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb >A lot of the questions are dependent on if the user is a btrfs user or not. It would be nice ask that as a first question, and then to hide some questions depending on the answer. The "Please rank thease features in order of importance" table is confusing to fill out. I think it would be better if users where asked to seperately indicate how important each item is (from 1 to 5) with no requirement to have one at each importance level, just a suggestion that it is not that helpfull to put everything at the same importance level. Other than that the survey is good. Thanks for pursing it. -- David Pottage -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Francis Galiegue
2010-Sep-28 15:07 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:57, David Pottage <david@electric-spoon.com> wrote:> On 28/09/10 15:27, Francis Galiegue wrote: >> >> Here is a preview of the survey. >> >> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn''t fit >> on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones. >> >> Please comment! >> >> Click on the following link to test this survey: >> >> http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb >> > > A lot of the questions are dependent on if the user is a btrfs user or not. > It would be nice ask that as a first question, and then to hide some > questions depending on the answer. >Yep, but the problem is, as far as I can see, you don''t have this option for the type of account (free) I''m using on the site :/> The "Please rank thease features in order of importance" table is confusing > to fill out. I think it would be better if users where asked to seperately > indicate how important each item is (from 1 to 5) with no requirement to > have one at each importance level, just a suggestion that it is not that > helpfull to put everything at the same importance level. >Yes, indeed. I thought about a list of items and radio buttons. Will update, just not right now though.> Other than that the survey is good. Thanks for pursing it. >Thanks for the feedback! -- Francis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com "It seems obvious [...] that at least some ''business intelligence'' tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have nothing left for generating SQL queries" (Stéphane Faroult, in "The Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Freddie Cash
2010-Sep-28 17:48 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
So far, very nice. Some comments inline below. On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Francis Galiegue <fgaliegue@gmail.com> wrote:> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:57, David Pottage <david@electric-spoon.com> wrote: >> On 28/09/10 15:27, Francis Galiegue wrote: >>> >>> Here is a preview of the survey. >>> >>> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn''t fit >>> on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones. >>> >>> Please comment! >>> >>> Click on the following link to test this survey: >>> >>> http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb >>> >> >> A lot of the questions are dependent on if the user is a btrfs user or not. >> It would be nice ask that as a first question, and then to hide some >> questions depending on the answer. >> > > Yep, but the problem is, as far as I can see, you don''t have this > option for the type of account (free) I''m using on the site :/Perhaps add a separate choice (Do not currently use btrfs) to each question after number 6? That way, non-users like me can just breeze through the rest of the survey, but you still get the information from us for the first half of the survey. -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Francis Galiegue
2010-Sep-28 18:47 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
[cc: list] On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 17:26, K. Richard Pixley <rich@noir.com> wrote:> #2 needs an answer dealing with "stability". Unstable doesn''t necessarily > mean polluted file systems. It can also mean pathological behavior, kernel > crashes, etc. >Yes, indeed. Fixed.> #4 needs an answer that involves performance - btrfs is, (arguably), the > fastest file system currently available for linux in many situations. That > answer alone is a serious selling point. > > Another selling point for #4 is file system hardening. ext2 is still fast, > but it can''t generally survive power failures. If you''re specifically > looking for a fast file system, then the fact that btrfs competes well in > speed and is also hardened becomes a selling point. >Well, performance is not touted as a key feature on the btrfs wiki. I have added "good overall performance" in the list of choices, though. As to file system hardening, what do you mean apart from checksums? Fundamental filesystem design?> #15 presupposes it''s own answer. While I''ve had no filesystems fail, every > machine I use with btrfs file systems has failed numerous times - > pathological behavior, kernel crashes, etc. In the absence of a btrfsck I > can''t be sure that the file system has actually failed although rebuilding > the file system seems to alleviate the symptoms temporarily. >I don''t really see your point here. Can you elaborate? And yes, I _do_ mean filesystem failures, not machine failure. I made that explicit.> #16 presupposes a failure mode. Again, my issues have more to do with > stability than with clear cases of file system pollution. >Point taken, but again, this is on purpose, I talk here about hosed filesystems indeed. Thanks for the feedback! -- Francis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com "It seems obvious [...] that at least some ''business intelligence'' tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have nothing left for generating SQL queries" (Stéphane Faroult, in "The Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Francis Galiegue
2010-Sep-28 18:50 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 19:48, Freddie Cash <fjwcash@gmail.com> wrote:> So far, very nice. Some comments inline below. > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Francis Galiegue <fgaliegue@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:57, David Pottage <david@electric-spoon.com> wrote: >>> On 28/09/10 15:27, Francis Galiegue wrote: >>>> >>>> Here is a preview of the survey. >>>> >>>> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn''t fit >>>> on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones. >>>> >>>> Please comment! >>>> >>>> Click on the following link to test this survey: >>>> >>>> http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb >>>> >>> >>> A lot of the questions are dependent on if the user is a btrfs user or not. >>> It would be nice ask that as a first question, and then to hide some >>> questions depending on the answer. >>> >> >> Yep, but the problem is, as far as I can see, you don''t have this >> option for the type of account (free) I''m using on the site :/ > > Perhaps add a separate choice (Do not currently use btrfs) to each > question after number 6? That way, non-users like me can just breeze > through the rest of the survey, but you still get the information from > us for the first half of the survey. >I think I''ll just add a text on top of section 3 mentioning that you can scroll right back to the end and complete if you don''t use it... The account is free beer, but features such as hiding pages depending on an answer require you to buy whisky :/ -- Francis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com "It seems obvious [...] that at least some ''business intelligence'' tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have nothing left for generating SQL queries" (Stéphane Faroult, in "The Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Francis Galiegue
2010-Sep-28 19:00 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:27, Francis Galiegue <fgaliegue@gmail.com> wrote:> Here is a preview of the survey. > > I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn''t fit on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones. > > Please comment! > > Click on the following link to test this survey: > http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb >Updated with the feedback I have had so far. -- Francis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com "It seems obvious [...] that at least some ''business intelligence'' tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have nothing left for generating SQL queries" (Stéphane Faroult, in "The Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Andreas Philipp
2010-Sep-28 19:18 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 28.09.2010 21:00, Francis Galiegue wrote:> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:27, Francis Galiegue <fgaliegue@gmail.com>wrote:>> Here is a preview of the survey. >> >> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn''tfit on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones.>> >> Please comment! >> >> Click on the following link to test this survey: >>http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb> > Updated with the feedback I have had so far.In the question about the features one is using day by day on the last page "Multiple device (RAID)" is listed twice. Everything else looks really nice. Kind Regards, Andreas -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJMoj+bAAoJEJIcBJ3+XkgijgwP/39iMlsHHLEMUfWOA9onXLG4 X9rSZdIo7OwtIbV77yO3dwz7aV/U77Bb//fSizD5H5nfuydKI4HFAY4CK7vAuENU qmjx7pJUVGprMHOdKXmP7vrlQ3glroI1l6mCmRec5n++1vrmV8ApVG4meZ3blqUe RCuZePf3+mRxRBthevprFMncTUJJj10j4jCHjbYTLrhs5caNC1FMbkeTTHGQZEu/ xKvtbwwH66rBb6VvDH5BSJI2mt9P9bBjHt2YLy/BAbr10LSgerGsAVna7YQr804k MI8SJVPkHqgXny6JHmYHnh4B3+C5vCNj+XlSSQyaXp8pGcNBrfr20mtb9UmWkArF 7j7fsqmDlBe5GEULNR+Vfzgv7iPEjEYiHkSM0Qmp2mSWFidGDZHU1jzIRL9ff6j+ Y3YQKOONe2hYrVxA0NlYXrQiFvWQsf2HXq7CMc6qvW21ssMNjUY8yq6iPl3JrsvJ Vu4bB+TWtHQMuUqPZWh2OVhvts6O02F0Crho7/n0X08n9A0nRLs/vvh/wplNbp+X ND7dAGAZpMOycpG7xDWpxRoGYe6DpsrrYOfuNK0uaXB6EyH90y+SyIuBsnZXJaLl 0vlgpfmdxsBheYO/MpvWi+mBHOpHZroybyVm7VaU4IiEwUuDyqsjyLOcewbKzzD8 gYinkC6tv1Be9aoVDYAe =CDfI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Francis Galiegue
2010-Sep-28 19:23 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 21:18, Andreas Philipp <philipp.andreas@gmail.com> wrote: [...]> In the question about the features one is using day by day on the last > page "Multiple device (RAID)" is listed twice.Noticed, and fixed that. It''s a bug with surveygizmo, in fact.> Everything else looks really nice. >Thanks! Will publish as is, unless someone has objections. -- Francis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com "It seems obvious [...] that at least some ''business intelligence'' tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have nothing left for generating SQL queries" (Stéphane Faroult, in "The Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Question 16 needs an "other" option, or some elaboration (I''ve had things fixed via tool patches from developers). -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Francis Galiegue
2010-Sep-28 19:49 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 21:27, cwillu <cwillu@cwillu.com> wrote:> Question 16 needs an "other" option, or some elaboration (I''ve had > things fixed via tool patches from developers). >Yes, I thought about this and forgot to add this answer. Fixed! -- Francis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com "It seems obvious [...] that at least some ''business intelligence'' tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have nothing left for generating SQL queries" (Stéphane Faroult, in "The Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5) -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Kristian Lyngstol
2010-Sep-28 22:00 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:27:57AM -0400, Francis Galiegue wrote:> Here is a preview of the survey.Very nice. Question #2 might benefit from a "I only use btrfs for testing purposes" might be useful. Possibly even with a comment? - Kristian
K. Richard Pixley
2010-Sep-29 15:11 UTC
Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey
On 9/28/10 11:47 , Francis Galiegue wrote:> As to file system hardening, what do you mean apart from checksums? > Fundamental filesystem design?I specifically mean the intended ability to survive a power failure. Historically, unix file systems lived in the disk cache such that a power failure would result in a polluted file system. This would require an fsck pass to clear out the errors and "recover" the file system although data lost was still data lost. A while back, (some time in the 90''s), most unix file systems were "hardened" such that a power failure would generally _not_ result in a file system pollution. Ext2 is not hardened. Ext3 has an optional journal which provides file system hardening. Ext2 is faster than ext3 but also suffers from smaller file system size limits. Btrfs, in "-m single -d single" mode is hardened and competes favorably against ext2 for speed. All other linux file systems are either not hardened, slower, or both. (Although nilfs2 is also hardened and somewhere between ext2 and ext3 speeds.)>> #15 presupposes it''s own answer. While I''ve had no filesystems fail, every >> machine I use with btrfs file systems has failed numerous times - >> pathological behavior, kernel crashes, etc. In the absence of a btrfsck I >> can''t be sure that the file system has actually failed although rebuilding >> the file system seems to alleviate the symptoms temporarily. > I don''t really see your point here. Can you elaborate? And yes, I _do_ > mean filesystem failures, not machine failure. I made that explicit.It''s simple. I can''t tell if I''ve had file system pollution because we don''t have a functional btrfsck. I only know that I have file systems which have reached a state where the kernel was unable to use them constructively. I can''t tell whether this state was due to a data error in the file system or a coding error in the file system driver which couldn''t cope with a valid state of the file system.>> #16 presupposes a failure mode. Again, my issues have more to do with >> stability than with clear cases of file system pollution > Point taken, but again, this is on purpose, I talk here about hosed > filesystems indeed.Then I think you need to ask the same question again with respect to system failures due to btrfs which aren''t necessarily file system failures. Imagine this for a moment - pretend that any time btrfs were in your kernel your kernel were only capable of network speeds of 1Mbps. Data was correct both in your btrfs file systems and in your network interfaces - but you were horribly restricted in your network interfaces. This would not represent a polluted btrfs file system and yet it would clearly represent a "broken" system by most people''s definitions. It''s these cases I''m looking to see represented in the questionnaire because these are the types of failures I''ve been seeing. And in the absence of a reliable btrfsck, we can''t really determine the existence of file system pollution anyway - we can only guess that we might have polluted file systems. --rich -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html