Hello, is there a timeline for snapshot-removal ? i did intensively play with btrfs about a year ago and was really impressed, but i quit due to the lack of snapshot removal. (i tried btrfs mostly because of the snapshot feature) has there been some progress on this or is there a timeline when this feature will be available ? i wonder if it`s just so hard to implement or if it`s just too low priority on the todo list..... maybe both ? ;) regards roland -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 02:03:37PM +0200, Roland wrote:> Hello, > > is there a timeline for snapshot-removal ? > > i did intensively play with btrfs about a year ago and was really > impressed, but i quit due to the lack of snapshot removal. > (i tried btrfs mostly because of the snapshot feature) > > has there been some progress on this or is there a timeline when > this feature will be available ? > > i wonder if it`s just so hard to implement or if it`s just too low > priority on the todo list..... maybe both ? ;)Its a little of both ;) The plan is to have this in 2.6.32 -chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On 3. aug.. 2009, at 15.04, Chris Mason wrote:> On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 02:03:37PM +0200, Roland wrote: >> Hello, >> >> is there a timeline for snapshot-removal ? >> >> i did intensively play with btrfs about a year ago and was really >> impressed, but i quit due to the lack of snapshot removal. >> (i tried btrfs mostly because of the snapshot feature) >> >> has there been some progress on this or is there a timeline when >> this feature will be available ? >> >> i wonder if it`s just so hard to implement or if it`s just too low >> priority on the todo list..... maybe both ? ;) > > Its a little of both ;) The plan is to have this in 2.6.32Last I heard, someone was saying .31... Is it being moved? -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk (+47) 97542685 roy@karlsbakk.net http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ -- I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 04:33:13PM +0200, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote:> On 3. aug.. 2009, at 15.04, Chris Mason wrote: > > >On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 02:03:37PM +0200, Roland wrote: > >>Hello, > >> > >>is there a timeline for snapshot-removal ? > >> > >>i did intensively play with btrfs about a year ago and was really > >>impressed, but i quit due to the lack of snapshot removal. > >>(i tried btrfs mostly because of the snapshot feature) > >> > >>has there been some progress on this or is there a timeline when > >>this feature will be available ? > >> > >>i wonder if it`s just so hard to implement or if it`s just too low > >>priority on the todo list..... maybe both ? ;) > > > >Its a little of both ;) The plan is to have this in 2.6.32 > > > Last I heard, someone was saying .31... Is it being moved?Yes, it was delayed so we could finalize the other changes in .31. -chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On 3. aug.. 2009, at 18.18, Chris Mason wrote:> On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 04:33:13PM +0200, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: >> On 3. aug.. 2009, at 15.04, Chris Mason wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 02:03:37PM +0200, Roland wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> is there a timeline for snapshot-removal ? >>>> >>>> i did intensively play with btrfs about a year ago and was really >>>> impressed, but i quit due to the lack of snapshot removal. >>>> (i tried btrfs mostly because of the snapshot feature) >>>> >>>> has there been some progress on this or is there a timeline when >>>> this feature will be available ? >>>> >>>> i wonder if it`s just so hard to implement or if it`s just too low >>>> priority on the todo list..... maybe both ? ;) >>> >>> Its a little of both ;) The plan is to have this in 2.6.32 >> >> >> Last I heard, someone was saying .31... Is it being moved? > > Yes, it was delayed so we could finalize the other changes in .31.It''s strange that such a small thing should be delayed so much. If snapshot removal was working, I''m quite sure we might get more users and thereby more stable code faster. roy -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk (+47) 97542685 roy@karlsbakk.net http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ -- I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> >>>> Hello, > >>>> > >>>> is there a timeline for snapshot-removal > ? > >>>> > >>>> i did intensively play with btrfs about a > year ago and was really > >>>> impressed, but i quit due to the lack of > snapshot removal. > >>>> (i tried btrfs mostly because of the > snapshot feature) > >>>> > >>>> has there been some progress on this or is > there a timeline when > >>>> this feature will be available ? > >>>> > >>>> i wonder if it`s just so hard to implement > or if it`s just too low > >>>> priority on the todo list..... maybe both > ? ;) > >>> > >>> Its a little of both ;) The plan is to > have this in 2.6.32 > >> > >> > >> Last I heard, someone was saying .31... Is it > being moved? > > > > Yes, it was delayed so we could finalize the other > changes in .31. > > > It''s strange that such a small thing should be delayed so > much. If snapshot removal was working, I''m quite sure we > might get more users and thereby more stable code faster. > > roy > --I don''t know whether it''s small in required effort, but I know as a user the feature would be big. I actually have a non-critical, redundant backup system that I was set to install with .31, betting on the snapshot removal. You can''t please all the people all the time, but I thought I''d write to voice an opinion for prioritizing it for .32. Thanks. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 09:52:51AM +0200, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote:> On 3. aug.. 2009, at 18.18, Chris Mason wrote: > >On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 04:33:13PM +0200, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: > >>On 3. aug.. 2009, at 15.04, Chris Mason wrote: > >> > >>>On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 02:03:37PM +0200, Roland wrote: > >>>>Hello, > >>>> > >>>>is there a timeline for snapshot-removal ? > >>>> > >>>>i did intensively play with btrfs about a year ago and was really > >>>>impressed, but i quit due to the lack of snapshot removal. > >>>>(i tried btrfs mostly because of the snapshot feature) > >>>> > >>>>has there been some progress on this or is there a timeline when > >>>>this feature will be available ? > >>>> > >>>>i wonder if it`s just so hard to implement or if it`s just too low > >>>>priority on the todo list..... maybe both ? ;) > >>> > >>>Its a little of both ;) The plan is to have this in 2.6.32 > >> > >> > >>Last I heard, someone was saying .31... Is it being moved? > > > >Yes, it was delayed so we could finalize the other changes in .31. > > > It''s strange that such a small thing should be delayed so much. If > snapshot removal was working, I''m quite sure we might get more users > and thereby more stable code faster.It''s a small feature but it gets deep into the difficult parts of the dentry cache to do it right. So, it definitely isn''t easy. -chris -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On 4. aug.. 2009, at 20.33, Chris Mason wrote:>> It''s strange that such a small thing should be delayed so much. If >> snapshot removal was working, I''m quite sure we might get more users >> and thereby more stable code faster. > > It''s a small feature but it gets deep into the difficult parts of the > dentry cache to do it right. So, it definitely isn''t easy.I''d say it''s a pretty elemetary feature to be able to remove something you have created. I know, you can remove the files and so on, but still, having a bunch of old and empty snapshots lying around is no good. roy -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk (+47) 97542685 roy@karlsbakk.net http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ -- I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 01:18:33PM +0200, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote:> On 4. aug.. 2009, at 20.33, Chris Mason wrote: > >>> It''s strange that such a small thing should be delayed so much. If >>> snapshot removal was working, I''m quite sure we might get more users >>> and thereby more stable code faster. >> >> It''s a small feature but it gets deep into the difficult parts of the >> dentry cache to do it right. So, it definitely isn''t easy. > > > I''d say it''s a pretty elemetary feature to be able to remove something > you have created. I know, you can remove the files and so on, but still, > having a bunch of old and empty snapshots lying around is no good. >Patches are always welcome. Josef -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk <roy@karlsbakk.net> wrote:> > On 4. aug.. 2009, at 20.33, Chris Mason wrote: > >>> It''s strange that such a small thing should be delayed so much. If >>> snapshot removal was working, I''m quite sure we might get more users >>> and thereby more stable code faster. >> >> It''s a small feature but it gets deep into the difficult parts of the >> dentry cache to do it right. So, it definitely isn''t easy. > > > I''d say it''s a pretty elemetary feature to be able to remove something you have created.Snapshots are somewhat counter-intuitive in many respects: for instance, one snapshot-capable file-system performs writes to a dataset with snapshots _faster_ than to the same dataset w/o snapshots. Snapshot removal is no exception - it''s a bit more complex than one would think. Regards, Andrey> I know, you can remove the files and so on, but still, having a bunch of old and empty > snapshots lying around is no good.> > roy > -- > Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk > (+47) 97542685 > roy@karlsbakk.net > http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ > -- > I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html-- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
I guess whats really hard to program: snapshot removal when not copying the data, but only pointing to that data and writing the differences from that point on. Figure out how difficult it is to remove snapshot 3 of 7; When snapshot 1 is the original data, snap2 the diff from 1 to 2, snap 3 the diff from 2 to 3, .... so you have to merge the data of snap 3 and 4. But the benefits are obvious: instant snapshots and very low space consumption (in case you don''t delete lots of your ''live'' data). On 8/5/09, Andrey Kuzmin <andrey.v.kuzmin@gmail.com> wrote:> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk <roy@karlsbakk.net> > wrote: >> >> On 4. aug.. 2009, at 20.33, Chris Mason wrote: >> >>>> It''s strange that such a small thing should be delayed so much. If >>>> snapshot removal was working, I''m quite sure we might get more users >>>> and thereby more stable code faster. >>> >>> It''s a small feature but it gets deep into the difficult parts of the >>> dentry cache to do it right. So, it definitely isn''t easy. >> >> >> I''d say it''s a pretty elemetary feature to be able to remove something you >> have created. > > Snapshots are somewhat counter-intuitive in many respects: for > instance, one snapshot-capable file-system performs writes to a > dataset with snapshots _faster_ than to the same dataset w/o > snapshots. Snapshot removal is no exception - it''s a bit more complex > than one would think. > > Regards, > Andrey > >> I know, you can remove the files and so on, but still, having a bunch of >> old and empty >> snapshots lying around is no good. > > >> >> roy >> -- >> Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk >> (+47) 97542685 >> roy@karlsbakk.net >> http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ >> -- >> I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. >> Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv >> anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller >> eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in >> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org >> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html >-- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Christian Mikovits<gaelic@luchmhor.net> wrote:> I guess whats really hard to program: snapshot removal when not > copying the data, but only pointing to that data and writing the > differences from that point on. Figure out how difficult it is to > remove snapshot 3 of 7; When snapshot 1 is the original data, snap2 > the diff from 1 to 2, snap 3 the diff from 2 to 3, .... so you have to > merge the data of snap 3 and 4.Depends on the snapshot design: if snapshots are implemented with reference counts, nothing needs to be merged (but simplicity in this respect comes at the cost of garbage collection). Regards, Andrey> > But the benefits are obvious: instant snapshots and very low space > consumption (in case you don''t delete lots of your ''live'' data). > > On 8/5/09, Andrey Kuzmin <andrey.v.kuzmin@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk <roy@karlsbakk.net> >> wrote: >>> >>> On 4. aug.. 2009, at 20.33, Chris Mason wrote: >>> >>>>> It''s strange that such a small thing should be delayed so much. If >>>>> snapshot removal was working, I''m quite sure we might get more users >>>>> and thereby more stable code faster. >>>> >>>> It''s a small feature but it gets deep into the difficult parts of the >>>> dentry cache to do it right. So, it definitely isn''t easy. >>> >>> >>> I''d say it''s a pretty elemetary feature to be able to remove something you >>> have created. >> >> Snapshots are somewhat counter-intuitive in many respects: for >> instance, one snapshot-capable file-system performs writes to a >> dataset with snapshots _faster_ than to the same dataset w/o >> snapshots. Snapshot removal is no exception - it''s a bit more complex >> than one would think. >> >> Regards, >> Andrey >> >>> I know, you can remove the files and so on, but still, having a bunch of >>> old and empty >>> snapshots lying around is no good. >> >> >>> >>> roy >>> -- >>> Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk >>> (+47) 97542685 >>> roy@karlsbakk.net >>> http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ >>> -- >>> I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. >>> Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv >>> anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller >>> eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. >>> >>> -- >>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in >>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org >>> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html >> -- >> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in >> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org >> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html >> >-- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html