I reallt don’t understand why people simply use the same operator to terminate your calls, which also provide DIDs for you. Then you don’t need to touch this at all, your carrier will do all the STIR/SHAKEN handling for you, you are just a PBX customer. And then the operator then simply limits your account to only present your DID as outgoing number. Seems to be a unneccesary complicated solution just to have your numbers at company 1 and have your call termination at company 2. So fricking unneccessary. What I know there is requirements of number portability, so as long as company 2 can handle DIDs (ergo ”own” DIDs) you should be able to move your DIDs from company 1 to company 2 – then company 2 owns your DIDs. Best regards, Sebastian Nielsen Från: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com <asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com> För Alexander Perkins Skickat: den 12 mars 2021 01:23 Till: asterisk-users at lists.digium.com Ämne: Re: [asterisk-users] STIR/SHAKEN Hi Jeff. What exactly do you mean by the 'inbound piece'? I've spent quite a lot of time with the folks at TILTX understanding the framework; but I am not exactly sure what you mean by the 'inbound piece. Greg/Doug, like many folks here, we use LCR. So, the terminating carrier is not necessarily the one that issued us the telephone numbers. So, they will not sign it or simply cannot sign it. Remember that a very limited number of companies can actually sign the calls; the rest have to buy it from these 'Service Providers'. And there is another situation - the company you purchase your numbers from and the company you place your calls through may be different and both may not be able to sign your calls. Again, a very limited number of service providers that can actually sign your calls. So what do you do in that scenario? You have to find a Service Provider that can: 1. Verify you own that telephone number(s). 2. Sign your calls. 3. Provide you with the technical means to do so. So, that's that... I hope this makes sense. Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20210312/a222f92f/attachment.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5715 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: <http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20210312/a222f92f/attachment.bin>
If you operate a small PBX for a business your approach is fine. If you operate a large PBX, or just have lots of high toll rate calls, the price difference between carriers can add up to a lot money every day. These operators will route their calls to whomever offers the best rate for that route. And that’s the problem being solved. STIR/SHAKEN makes it tough for spoofers, but also tough for businesses doing LCR. Sadly, the easier it becomes to implement STIR/SHAKEN (telling the next hop along the route to trust your identity), the easier it will be for spoofers to do the same. I suspect it won’t be long until unscrupulous service providers undermine STIR/SHAKEN From: asterisk-users [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Sebastian Nielsen Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 7:34 PM To: 'Mailing List' <asterisk-users at lists.digium.com> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] STIR/SHAKEN I reallt don’t understand why people simply use the same operator to terminate your calls, which also provide DIDs for you. Then you don’t need to touch this at all, your carrier will do all the STIR/SHAKEN handling for you, you are just a PBX customer. And then the operator then simply limits your account to only present your DID as outgoing number. Seems to be a unneccesary complicated solution just to have your numbers at company 1 and have your call termination at company 2. So fricking unneccessary. What I know there is requirements of number portability, so as long as company 2 can handle DIDs (ergo ”own” DIDs) you should be able to move your DIDs from company 1 to company 2 – then company 2 owns your DIDs. Best regards, Sebastian Nielsen Från: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com <mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com> <asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com <mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com> > För Alexander Perkins Skickat: den 12 mars 2021 01:23 Till: asterisk-users at lists.digium.com <mailto:asterisk-users at lists.digium.com> Ämne: Re: [asterisk-users] STIR/SHAKEN Hi Jeff. What exactly do you mean by the 'inbound piece'? I've spent quite a lot of time with the folks at TILTX understanding the framework; but I am not exactly sure what you mean by the 'inbound piece. Greg/Doug, like many folks here, we use LCR. So, the terminating carrier is not necessarily the one that issued us the telephone numbers. So, they will not sign it or simply cannot sign it. Remember that a very limited number of companies can actually sign the calls; the rest have to buy it from these 'Service Providers'. And there is another situation - the company you purchase your numbers from and the company you place your calls through may be different and both may not be able to sign your calls. Again, a very limited number of service providers that can actually sign your calls. So what do you do in that scenario? You have to find a Service Provider that can: 1. Verify you own that telephone number(s). 2. Sign your calls. 3. Provide you with the technical means to do so. So, that's that... I hope this makes sense. Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20210312/3e98362a/attachment.html>
Hi, I wanted to add some comments to Sebastian's response: 1- When you have a lot of DIDs, you can't just "port" them over from company1 to company2. Try to have 1M or so DIDs and ask if you can just port them. No no, not that simple. There is a process that a lot of times is not worth the cost/risk/etc. 2- What happens if company1 has very good pricing for DIDs, but extremely high rates for placing outbound calls, and company2 has super aggressive pricing for the destinations you use most, but sells DIDs very expensive? Mix and match? :) 3- What do you do, when instead of having 1 outbound carrier, you have several 50? At the end I think you are mistakenly comparing apples to oranges, your DID provider has nothing to do with your outbound carrier, can the DID provider also give you outbound calling? Most likely, but that doesn't mean that the best way to go is to route outbound calls via the carrier that is providing you DIDs. On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 4:34 PM Sebastian Nielsen <sebastian at sebbe.eu> wrote:> I reallt don’t understand why people simply use the same operator to > terminate your calls, which also provide DIDs for you. > > > > Then you don’t need to touch this at all, your carrier will do all the > STIR/SHAKEN handling for you, you are just a PBX customer. > > And then the operator then simply limits your account to only present your > DID as outgoing number. > > > > Seems to be a unneccesary complicated solution just to have your numbers > at company 1 and have your call termination at company 2. > > So fricking unneccessary. > > > > What I know there is requirements of number portability, so as long as > company 2 can handle DIDs (ergo ”own” DIDs) you should be able to move your > DIDs from company 1 to company 2 – then company 2 owns your DIDs. > > > > Best regards, Sebastian Nielsen > > > > *Från:* asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com < > asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com> *För *Alexander Perkins > *Skickat:* den 12 mars 2021 01:23 > *Till:* asterisk-users at lists.digium.com > *Ämne:* Re: [asterisk-users] STIR/SHAKEN > > > > Hi Jeff. What exactly do you mean by the 'inbound piece'? I've spent > quite a lot of time with the folks at TILTX understanding the framework; > but I am not exactly sure what you mean by the 'inbound piece. > > > > Greg/Doug, like many folks here, we use LCR. So, the terminating carrier > is not necessarily the one that issued us the telephone numbers. So, they > will not sign it or simply cannot sign it. Remember that a very limited > number of companies can actually sign the calls; the rest have to buy it > from these 'Service Providers'. > > > > And there is another situation - the company you purchase your numbers > from and the company you place your calls through may be different and both > may not be able to sign your calls. Again, a very limited number of > service providers that can actually sign your calls. So what do you do in > that scenario? You have to find a Service Provider that can: > > > > 1. Verify you own that telephone number(s). > > 2. Sign your calls. > > 3. Provide you with the technical means to do so. > > > > So, that's that... I hope this makes sense. > > > > Alex > -- > _____________________________________________________________________ > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- > > Check out the new Asterisk community forum at: > https://community.asterisk.org/ > > New to Asterisk? Start here: > https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Getting+Started > > asterisk-users mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20210311/73e2bd71/attachment.html>
Sebastian, There are many reasons why someone would want the DIDs provided by one provider and outbound calls to go out via 1,2 3, or more providers. In one of my installs I have a situation where local calls are placed via a local telco switch but LD calls go out via a voip provider. The Local telco has the DID but the LD does not so I have to verify the DIDs with the Voip provider(s). Another case may be for least cost routing. There are other reasons but you can see that it is not always as simple as using the same provider for DID and origination. Thanks, John On 3/11/21 3:34 PM, Sebastian Nielsen wrote:> > I reallt don’t understand why people simply use the same operator to > terminate your calls, which also provide DIDs for you. > > Then you don’t need to touch this at all, your carrier will do all the > STIR/SHAKEN handling for you, you are just a PBX customer. > > And then the operator then simply limits your account to only present > your DID as outgoing number. > > Seems to be a unneccesary complicated solution just to have your > numbers at company 1 and have your call termination at company 2. > > So fricking unneccessary. > > What I know there is requirements of number portability, so as long as > company 2 can handle DIDs (ergo ”own” DIDs) you should be able to move > your DIDs from company 1 to company 2 – then company 2 owns your DIDs. > > Best regards, Sebastian Nielsen > > *Från:* asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com > <asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com> *För *Alexander Perkins > *Skickat:* den 12 mars 2021 01:23 > *Till:* asterisk-users at lists.digium.com > *Ämne:* Re: [asterisk-users] STIR/SHAKEN > > Hi Jeff. What exactly do you mean by the 'inbound piece'? I've spent > quite a lot of time with the folks at TILTX understanding the > framework; but I am not exactly sure what you mean by the 'inbound piece. > > Greg/Doug, like many folks here, we use LCR. So, the terminating > carrier is not necessarily the one that issued us the telephone > numbers. So, they will not sign it or simply cannot sign it. > Remember that a very limited number of companies can actually sign the > calls; the rest have to buy it from these 'Service Providers'. > > And there is another situation - the company you purchase your numbers > from and the company you place your calls through may be different and > both may not be able to sign your calls. Again, a very limited number > of service providers that can actually sign your calls. So what do you > do in that scenario? You have to find a Service Provider that can: > > 1. Verify you own that telephone number(s). > > 2. Sign your calls. > > 3. Provide you with the technical means to do so. > > So, that's that... I hope this makes sense. > > Alex > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20210311/01522587/attachment-0001.html>