asterisk users - Sep 2006 - Voip providers and sip origination and termination?

can someone please explain the differnces to me??? 
   
  I have an asterisk system im setting up for a small office (4 or 5 phones) and
as im looking for a voip provider, i find that voip providers generally have
unlimited plans, and those that offer sip origination and termination get
charged for the minute, for their outgoing and incoming calls.
   
  is there a difference in the backend architecture here? if so, what? or is
this is just a difference in marketing terms and setup?
   
  for example, http://www.broadvoice.com offers an unlimited plan in the US for
calls, though they never use the term sip origination and termination. they say
their systems also supports asterisk.
   
  yet
http://www.bandwidth.com/content/enterprise?page=voice_services_origination_termination&campaignId=701300000000JBJ
calls it sip origination and termination
   
  any info is appreciated! thanks!
   
   
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the thing to remember is that these terms are from the point of view of the
PSTN.
So, SIP origination is Direct Inbound Dial (DID, or DDI in european
parlance) which allows callers on the PSTN to originate calls that end up at
your SIP server.
SIP termination allows calls which originate on your SIP server to terminate
on the PSTN, i.e. to reach a non-voip line.

Voip providers who provide "plans" are bundling 2 distinct services.
Broadvoice, for example, does not expect its users to understand the terms,
and just offers them what used to be called a "phone line" - the
ability to
make calls (termination) and recieve them (origination).

i hope this helps,
 yair


On 9/10/06, Christopher Corn <christopher_corn@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>  can someone please explain the differnces to me???
>
> I have an asterisk system im setting up for a small office (4 or 5
> phones) and as im looking for a voip provider, i find that voip providers
> generally have unlimited plans, and those that offer sip origination and
> termination get charged for the minute, for their outgoing and incoming
> calls.
>
> is there a difference in the backend architecture here? if so, what? or is
> this is just a difference in marketing terms and setup?
>
> for example, http://www.broadvoice.com offers an unlimited plan in the US
> for calls, though they never use the term sip origination and termination.
> they say their systems also supports asterisk.
>
> yet
>
http://www.bandwidth.com/content/enterprise?page=voice_services_origination_termination&campaignId=701300000000JBJ
calls
> it sip origination and termination
>
> any info is appreciated! thanks!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com
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>
> asterisk-users mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>
>
>

-- 
Yair Hakak
-----------------------------------------------------
Yair Hakak, CEO
Go Telecom, Ltd., Israel
israel: (972) 54 5491266
usa: (212) 202 2340
yair@gotel.co.il
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i thought so! this helps alot. thanks so much! 
Yair Hakak <yair@hakak.com> wrote:    the thing to remember is that these
terms are from the point of view of the PSTN.
  So, SIP origination is Direct Inbound Dial (DID, or DDI in european parlance)
which allows callers on the PSTN to originate calls that end up at your SIP
server.
  SIP termination allows calls which originate on your SIP server to terminate
on the PSTN, i.e. to reach a non-voip line.
   
  Voip providers who provide "plans" are bundling 2 distinct services.
Broadvoice, for example, does not expect its users to understand the terms, and
just offers them what used to be called a "phone line" - the ability
to make calls (termination) and recieve them (origination).
   
  i hope this helps,
   yair

 
  On 9/10/06, Christopher Corn <christopher_corn@yahoo.com> wrote:      
can someone please explain the differnces to me???
   
  I have an asterisk system im setting up for a small office (4 or 5 phones) and
as im looking for a voip provider, i find that voip providers generally have
unlimited plans, and those that offer sip origination and termination get
charged for the minute, for their outgoing and incoming calls.
   
  is there a difference in the backend architecture here? if so, what? or is
this is just a difference in marketing terms and setup?
   
  for example, http://www.broadvoice.com offers an unlimited plan in the US for
calls, though they never use the term sip origination and termination. they say
their systems also supports asterisk.
   
  yet
http://www.bandwidth.com/content/enterprise?page=voice_services_origination_termination&campaignId=701300000000JBJ
calls it sip origination and termination
   
  any info is appreciated! thanks!
   
   


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-- 
Yair Hakak
-----------------------------------------------------
Yair Hakak, CEO
Go Telecom, Ltd., Israel 
israel: (972) 54 5491266
usa: (212) 202 2340
yair@gotel.co.il _______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

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Christopher Corn wrote:
> can someone please explain the differnces to me???
>  
> I have an asterisk system im setting up for a small office (4 or 5 
> phones) and as im looking for a voip provider, i find that voip 
> providers generally have unlimited plans, and those that offer sip 
> origination and termination get charged for the minute, for their 
> outgoing and incoming calls.
>  
> is there a difference in the backend architecture here? if so, what? or 
> is this is just a difference in marketing terms and setup?
>  
> for example, http://www.broadvoice.com offers an unlimited plan in the 
> US for calls, though they never use the term sip origination and 
> termination. they say their systems also supports asterisk. 
>  
> yet 
>
http://www.bandwidth.com/content/enterprise?page=voice_services_origination_termination&campaignId=701300000000JBJ
>
<http://www.bandwidth.com/content/enterprise?page=voice_services_origination_termination&campaignId=701300000000JBJ>
calls
> it sip origination and termination
>  
> any info is appreciated! thanks!
I'll take a stab at this...

There are some providers that allow you to originate calls to the 
US/World pstn network via their facilities, but do not provide any way 
for the US/World to call you from the pstn network. (eg, Origination 
only provider.)

There are many providers that do the above, but also will assign you a 
normal pstn telephone number allowing the US/World pstn users to call 
you (via sip, iax, etc). (eg, Origination and Termination provider.)

The back end differences for the providers essentially amounts to them 
having to purchase multiple T1's, obtain an allocation of pstn telephone 
numbers, and establish a dialplan to support calls from the pstn 
network. The architecture for origination-only verses origination plus 
termination is the same; the "implementation" is different for one 
verses the other.

For the most part, there are no providers that truly provide "unlimited 
service". The majority include words in fine print that impose some sort 
of limit on their so called unlimited service.  For example, some will 
say things like their unlimited service provides 2500 minutes of use; 
call volumes that exceed 2500 minutes will be billed at $0.02/minute. 
Got to read the fine print.

 From an architectural perspective, those providers that suggest they 
have unlimited service plans also impose a limit on how many 
simultaneous calls are allowed. The majority of these have a limit of 
one, two, or some very small number of simultaneous calls. There way of 
limiting usage since they don't really want you to use up more then 
their stated fine-print usage.

Those providers that sell their services based on a cost per minute (as 
opposed to unlimited plan) do not typically limit the number of 
simultaneous calls. They want you to use as many minutes as possible, so 
why would they try to limit the number of simultaneous calls?

To get the best deal possible (from any provider) you need to come up 
with a reasonably accurate estimate of the number of minutes of incoming 
and outgoing calls that "you" are going to make. Then, compare
providers
to see which ones cost the least in terms of your requirements. Keep in 
mind the higher your call volumes, the more competitive the providers 
are. In other words, if your needs suggest 1,000,000 minutes of use per 
month (incoming and outgoing), you should be able to find providers that 
will charge you something like $0.012 per minute. (Stated a little 
differently, the majority of service providers have other unpublished 
plans that are discounted based on your expected level of usage.)

Most providers are trying to pattern their plans based on how well the 
Cell providers have done in the past. You and I typically sign up for 
xxxx minutes of cell phone usage, but don't actually use all of those 
minutes. What's our "real" cost per minute in this case? And, how
often
do we make useless cell phone calls because we have "free" minutes
left?

You are seeing the difference between a resale product and a wholesale 
product.

Origination and termination and telecom terms used to describe which way the 
call is going.  Time costs - no matter what.  Even if the provider pays a 
flat rate for their PRIs, the capacity multiplied by the number of minutes in 
a month is the maximum time they have to sell.  Retail packages can provide 
an unlimited number of minutes by estimating the usage of their customers, 
and charging a rate that covers this.  There is generally a user agreement in 
place to enforce their estimates.  Origination and Termination are wholesale 
products where you have unlimited (within practical limits) access under 
their user agreement, because you pay a rate that is proportional to the cost 
of them providing the service.  

In terms of back end, an origination and termination service will often allow 
you to set callerID number, and will allow a peering arrangement that is much 
more conducive to having several incoming DID numbers, and multiple channels 
from the same asterisk machine.

-Tim

On September 10, 2006 15:43, Christopher Corn wrote:
> can someone please explain the differnces to me???
>
>   I have an asterisk system im setting up for a small office (4 or 5
> phones) and as im looking for a voip provider, i find that voip providers
> generally have unlimited plans, and those that offer sip origination and
> termination get charged for the minute, for their outgoing and incoming
> calls.
>
>   is there a difference in the backend architecture here? if so, what? or
> is this is just a difference in marketing terms and setup?
>
>   for example, http://www.broadvoice.com offers an unlimited plan in the US
> for calls, though they never use the term sip origination and termination.
> they say their systems also supports asterisk.
>
>   yet
> http://www.bandwidth.com/content/enterprise?page=voice_services_origination
>_termination&campaignId=701300000000JBJ calls it sip origination and
> termination
>
>   any info is appreciated! thanks!
-- 
Tim St. Pierre

IP telephony specialist
sip://5101@communicatefreely.net
Toronto: 647 722 6930
Toll-Free 1 888 488 6940
tim@communicatefreely.net
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