asterisk users - Sep 2006 - RE: Peter Dicks Chairman ofSportingbet PLC is arrested at JFK!!

Lol, ok - last post on the topic...I promise.

I'm going to let Ze Frank have the last word about the state of
government policy under the current administration and the role it plays
in the international stewardship here in the USA 
http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/archives/2006/09/share_090806.html 

Jay....hope you don't plan on visiting China soon :) 


Cheers,

Dean

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dean Collins
> Sent: Friday, 8 September 2006 1:40 PM
> To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
> Subject: FW: Peter Dicks Chairman ofSportingbet PLC is arrested at
JFK!!
> 
> Yes I am aware he is the second executive to be arrested......the
first is still yet to
> be charged and is still awaiting trial and has fallen off the face of
the general media
> which is why I'm 'motivated' to draw attention and outrage to
this
second case.
> 
> Yes you are right it does belong off this list but with so many people
on this list
> doing international business on the internet (including yourself by
the looks of your
> own voip carrier website).
> 
> So when someone from China places an order on your website for a voip
service,
> you agree that it would be ok for the Chinese government to let the
Chinese
> customer go free but for them to arrest you and any other directors
muWare?
> 
> (also lets not forget that the WTO has already ruled that USA
government is in
> breach with their court case back in March).
> 
> I'm very curious about your thoughts or will you prefer to stick your
head in the sand
> and pretend that the USA lives in a bubble on the planet earth and
would prefer
> that Walmart not do business internationally or that the Ford motor
car you drive
> not use Australian steel etc etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-
> > bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Jay Milk
> > Sent: Friday, 8 September 2006 1:22 PM
> > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> > Subject: Re: {Fraud?} RE: [asterisk-users] FW: Peter Dicks Chairman
> ofSportingbet
> > PLC isarrested at JFK!!
> >
> > Why don't you keep political diatribe to your blog? This is OT,
and
> > quite frankly it displays that you have less than perfect grasp on
reality.
> > Mark Spencer makes a software product that is perfectly legal to use
> > anywhere in the world, even in India (as long as it stays within a
> > building and used as a PBX only). It's the user's
responsibility to
> > understand and follow local law in utilizing this software. By the
same
> > token, a vehicle is legal to use for most, but it becomes a weapon
when
> > you intentionally or neglectfully run someone over.
> > Peter Dicks was operating a business that was offering certain
services
> > that are illegal in the place where he offered them. If he was
arrested
> > the moment he entered the US, then this was investigated before, and
he
> > was asked to cease offering these illegal services in the US, but
has
> > refused to do so -- if you followed the news as enthusiastically as
you
> > post OT messages, then you would have realized that Dicks was the
> > *second* executive that was arrested. This should have come as no
> > surprise to Dicks or his lawyers.
> > So, now we're seeing the guy not as a clueless tourist, but a
> > law-defying visitor. He's done something that is illegal, has
refused to
> > stop, and was dumb enough to step into the jurisdiction of his
crime. Is
> > there a problem with that? Because if there is, you need to start
> > defending Columbian drug-lords and terrorists, too.
> > This is fulfills my quote of OT posts for the day. Just had to say
> > something in the face of such obvious stupidity.
> >
> > Dean Collins wrote:
> > >
> > > Exactly so why aren't they trying to arrest the 50 million
people
in
> > > the USA who have gambled online?
> > >
> > > Mark (as far as I know) isn't actively checking with asterisk
users
> > > for what country they are in so therefore in the reciprocal eyes
of
> > > the indian government he is similarly breaking the law.
> > >
> > > Basically what the USA government is charging Peter Dicks with is
not
> > > being a global policeman to enforce a USA law (which the WTO has
> > > already ruled is illegal back in March
> > > http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/3434111 ).
> > >
> > > The USA government can't enforce it's principals on the
rest of
the
> > > world otherwise they are no better than the terrorists who are
trying
> > > to impose Sharia Law on the world.
> > >
> > > I'm trying terribly not to take this discussion any further
Off
Topic
> > > but realistically we live in a global society and the USA is
> > > overstepping it's limits on international trade here. I
appreciate
> > > this isn't the best forum for it but this has much wider
ramifications
> > > for those of us who do business internationally in and with the
USA.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Dean
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > *From:* asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
> > > [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] *On Behalf Of
*Alex Robar
> > > *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 12:45 PM
> > > *To:* Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> > > *Subject:* Re: [asterisk-users] FW: Peter Dicks Chairman of
> > > Sportingbet PLC isarrested at JFK!!
> > >
> > > The guy was arrested because he was conciously allowing US
citizens to
> > > gamble online, something illegal in the US at this point. He ran
a
> > > business who's sole profit source came from this illegal
activity.
> > > Spencer is an entirely different situation. He's not running
a
> > > business in which he provides VoIP to places where it is illegal.
He's
> > > running a business the develops software that enables VoIP...
There's
> > > a big difference there. If someone takes the software and uses it
in a
> > > place where VoIP is illegal, that does not make Spencer
responsible.
> > > Think of it along the lines of BitTorrent software. The software
isn't
> > > illegal - it has valid uses - but it _could_ be used for
something
> > > illegal. All that means is that the user of the software has
commited
> > > a crime; Not the developer.
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >     *From:* Dean Collins
> > >     *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 10:22 AM
> > >     *To:* 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial
Discussion'
> > >     *Subject:* FW: Peter Dicks Chairman of Sportingbet PLC is
arrested
> > >     at JFK!!
> > >
> > >     I'm sending this to the asterisk list - consciously
knowing it
> > >     will piss some people off but this is the *most important
business
> > >     issue of the day* for anyone doing business in or with a US
company.
> > >
> > >     Oh and before anyone on this list thinks of calling this OT -
how
> > >     about Mark Spencer being arrested while travelling in a
country
> > >     like India or the Middle East that has banned VOIP services
(which
> > >     is still illegal because they cant tax it of course).
> > >
> > >     I don't know what you are going to be able to do with
this
> > >     information but this has to be discussed as it affect the
future
> > >     of international commerce when dealing with the USA.
> > >
> > >     Best intentions,
> > >
> > >     Dean
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >     *From:* Dean Collins
> > >     *Sent:* Friday, 8 September 2006 10:15 AM
> > >     *Subject:* Peter Dicks Chairman of Sportingbet PLC is
arrested
at
> > >     JFK!!
> > >
> > >     This is bullshit.
> > >
> > >     I don't know how to effectively express my outrage over
this
> > >     action by the US government.
> > >
> > >     Check out these links for background info;
> > >
> > >     www.nytimes.com
> > >
> >
>
<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/technology/08gamble.html?_r=1&oref=sl
ogin
> > >
> > >
> > >     money.cnn.com
> > >
> >
>
<http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/08/news/international/bc.leisure.sportingb
et.reut/?p
> > ostversion=2006090808>
> > >
> > >     today.reuters.co.uk
> > >
> >
>
<http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=internetNews&stor
yID=200
> > 6-09-07T160138Z_01_N07242747_RTRIDST_0_OUKIN-UK-LEISURE-
> > SPORTINGBET-DICKS.XML>
> > >
> > >     www.businessweek.com
> > >
> >
>
<http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8K02SM85.htm?sub=apn_euro
> > _up&chan=gb>
> > >
> > >     So basically we have a UK citizen, operating a UK business
> > >     (sportingbetplc.com board)
> > >
> >
>
<http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/15/Our+Board.stm?PHPSESSID=15ba3131
> > b6035fc855dabdde5c19b246>
> > >     who the moment he steps foot into the USA is arrested, not
for
> > >     crimes he committed but for crimes committted by US citizens.
> > >
> > >     Oh and arrested under ambiguous Louisiana law, that defines
all
> > >     interstate gaming as illegal.
> > >
> > >     I cant wait for the chairman of the NY Times to be arrested
on
a
> > >     visit to China because chinese citizens were reading copies
of
the
> > >     NY Times on the internet.
> > >
> > >     Oh and as for visiting 'unfriendly' countries, how
about if
Castro
> > >     started shooting american tourists he found in Cuba for
'crimes of
> > >     treason' in carrying US dollars in their wallets?
> > >
> > >     This is insane America. When are you going to wake up and
begin to
> > >     be a good 'world citizen'?
> > >
> > >     You cant just arrest people for 'crimes against the
state'
that
> > >     dont even occur in your country........isn't that what
terrorists
> > >     do? Impose their will against the world at large.
> > >
> > >     I keep hoping I will wake up and the insanity will end?
it's
like
> > >     a bad dream.
> > >     It's getting hard to tell who is the bad guys anymore.
> > >
> > >
http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2006/09/peter-dicks-chairman-of-
> > sportingbet.html
> > >
> > >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
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