asterisk users - Jan 2006 - G729a Pass-Through and Recording/Monitoring

Hello,
 
I am wondering about the ability of a server that is simply passing G729
through it to have the ability to record the calls.  I know for
voicemail, meetme, and things like that to work, a G729 license must be
installed on the machine since there is transcoding going on.  
 
Is this also true for recording of calls?  Will I require licensing for
each recorded call?  Will the server see a big performance hit in this
setup whether or not a license is required?
 
Thanks,
Steve Totaro

Steve Totaro wrote:
>Hello,
> 
>I am wondering about the ability of a server that is simply passing G729
>through it to have the ability to record the calls.  I know for
>voicemail, meetme, and things like that to work, a G729 license must be
>installed on the machine since there is transcoding going on.  
> 
>Is this also true for recording of calls?  Will I require licensing for
>each recorded call?  Will the server see a big performance hit in this
>setup whether or not a license is required?
>  
>
The way I understanding it - a license is required if the media has to 
be processed by the pbx core. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. 
To record the call, the pbx core will transcode the incoming stream to 
the its native format (SLINEAR?) and then write the stream out in your 
recording format (xlaw or GSM). In short, you'll need a G.729 license.

On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 12:16 -0500, Steve Totaro wrote:
> Is this also true for recording of calls?  Will I require licensing for
> each recorded call?  Will the server see a big performance hit in this
> setup whether or not a license is required?
In my experience (which was using asterisk 1.0.x at the time) you will
need:
1 license to decode the audio and send to your output (PSTN as alaw)
1 license to decode the audio and write to disk as gsm

Which seemed rather ..... non-optimal... perhaps that has changed in the
past 6 months or more though :)

Regards,
Adam

Digium's official answer to my question:
"Hi Steve, 

Having labbed it up, you're going to need the licenses to perform the
monitor / recording; otherwise, you end up with empty recordings." 

Thanks,

Steve

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Leo Ann Boon 
	Sent: Mon 1/23/2006 8:24 PM 
	To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion 
	Cc: 
	Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] G729a Pass-Through and
Recording/Monitoring
	
	

	Steve Totaro wrote: 

	>Hello, 
	> 
	>I am wondering about the ability of a server that is simply
passing G729 
	>through it to have the ability to record the calls.  I know
for
>voicemail, meetme, and things like that to work, a G729 license must be
>installed on the machine since there is transcoding going on.  
	> 
	>Is this also true for recording of calls?  Will I require
licensing for 
	>each recorded call?  Will the server see a big performance hit
in this 
	>setup whether or not a license is required? 
	>  
	> 
	The way I understanding it - a license is required if the media
has to 
	be processed by the pbx core. Somebody please correct me if I'm
wrong. 
	To record the call, the pbx core will transcode the incoming
stream to 
	the its native format (SLINEAR?) and then write the stream out
in your 
	recording format (xlaw or GSM). In short, you'll need a G.729
license. 

	_______________________________________________ 
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Digium confirmend that this was still the case but trixter may have a
way to at least make things much more efficient and save alot of money,
especially in a recording situation.  See his announcemnt here.
http://www.trxtel.com/index.php?page=G_729_Codec
 
Thanks,
Steve Totaro

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Adam Goryachev 
	Sent: Tue 1/24/2006 7:03 AM 
	To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion 
	Cc: 
	Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] G729a Pass-Through and
Recording/Monitoring
	
	

	On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 12:16 -0500, Steve Totaro wrote:
	> Is this also true for recording of calls?  Will I require
licensing for
	> each recorded call?  Will the server see a big performance hit
in this
	> setup whether or not a license is required?
	
	In my experience (which was using asterisk 1.0.x at the time)
you will
	need:
	1 license to decode the audio and send to your output (PSTN as
alaw)
	1 license to decode the audio and write to disk as gsm
	
	Which seemed rather ..... non-optimal... perhaps that has
changed in the
	past 6 months or more though :)
	
	Regards,
	Adam
	
	_______________________________________________
	--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --
	
	Asterisk-Users mailing list
	To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
	   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
	

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On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 22:01 -0500, Steve Totaro wrote:
> Digium confirmend that this was still the case but trixter may have a
> way to at least make things much more efficient and save alot of money,
> especially in a recording situation.  See his announcemnt here.
> http://www.trxtel.com/index.php?page=G_729_Codec
>  
Thanks :)

Only encoding and/or decoding requires a license.  If you are just
pushing bits you dont need a license.  This is according to
http://www.sipro.com the people who do the licensing for G.729.  There
is no difference in a license for decode only or encode only vs both.  

They also do G.723.1 licensing and with G.723.1 there is a difference in
licensing cost for decode only or encode only vs both.  So you would see
a savings if you were writing an app that only recorded for example.  

-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com     Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
http://www.sacaug.org/ Sacramento Asterisk Users Group
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The original quesiton was that if you had a server performing G729
passthrough, could you do recording without licensing.  Digium confirmed
that the server doing the passthrough would also need a license in order
to record the conversation.  Using the Erlag formula you can pretty much
figure out how many licenses would be needed.  
 
My situation is two locations operating as a single logical call center.
G729 is good for the bandwidth and works fine with the Tenor boxes I
plan to use.  Obviously,  not all 672 channels would be in use at a time
but it could be possible and obviously not all phone calls will need to
be recorded.  Planned properly, this could amount to significant
savings.
 
Thanks,
Steve

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: trixter aka Bret McDanel 
	Sent: Sat 2/4/2006 10:23 PM 
	To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion 
	Cc: 
	Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] G729a Pass-Through and
Recording/Monitoring
	
	

	On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 22:01 -0500, Steve Totaro wrote:
	> Digium confirmend that this was still the case but trixter may
have a
	> way to at least make things much more efficient and save alot
of money,
	> especially in a recording situation.  See his announcemnt
here.
	> http://www.trxtel.com/index.php?page=G_729_Codec
	> 
	Thanks :)
	
	Only encoding and/or decoding requires a license.  If you are
just
	pushing bits you dont need a license.  This is according to
	http://www.sipro.com the people who do the licensing for G.729.
There
	is no difference in a license for decode only or encode only vs
both. 
	
	They also do G.723.1 licensing and with G.723.1 there is a
difference in
	licensing cost for decode only or encode only vs both.  So you
would see
	a savings if you were writing an app that only recorded for
example. 
	
	--
	Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com     Bret McDanel
	UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
	US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
	FreeWorldDialup: 635378
	http://www.sacaug.org/ Sacramento Asterisk Users Group
	

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On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 22:44 -0500, Steve Totaro wrote:
> The original quesiton was that if you had a server performing G729
> passthrough, could you do recording without licensing.  Digium confirmed
> that the server doing the passthrough would also need a license in order
> to record the conversation.  Using the Erlag formula you can pretty much
> figure out how many licenses would be needed.  
>  
The real answer is maybe.  If you record raw g.729 you dont need a
license becuase you arent encoding or decoding.  However monitor may not
work this way, it may internally decode even if it doesnt have to, I
havent looked so I dont know.  

You would then only need a license to change the coding scheme (ie from
g.729 to anything else) or play the file (whatever plays it at the very
least would need a license).  

In this model you could record raw g.729 frames, and have 1 process,
thus 1 license to convert them to something else.  But the issue of
whether or not monitor would decode (or by using monitor cause something
else to decode) would need to  be resolved.

ranchnetworks.com has network appliances that work with asterisk.  These
have a calea feature, which basically does port replication on the
individual RTP streams that are flagged (ie not everything).  It works
in two modes, one it sends a copy of the RTP data to a specified IP/port
or it just replicates and you can use a packet sniffer.  Either mode
would enable you to cleanly record without a license, see above for
listening.

This also assumes that there is traffic going through their switch,
becuase well if it doesnt its a little hard for their switch to do
anything with it :)

-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com     Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
http://www.sacaug.org/ Sacramento Asterisk Users Group
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