asterisk users - Oct 2005 - Echo Canceller question- is there a viablesolution?

Hello Matthew,
It is always nice to see improvements.  I look forward to testing your
patches.

It just seems that so many other hardware manufacturers have tackled the
problem, I am surprised digium has not put more research into getting
the issue solved in software, which is possible, as opposed to coming up
with alternate solutions.

Greg 

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Matthew
Fredrickson
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:59 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo Canceller question- is there a
viablesolution?


On Oct 27, 2005, at 12:38 AM, gw@adcomcorp.com wrote:
> My question is, what is the direction in relation to analog boards and
> such?
Right now, it looks like the current fad of the asterisk group is
hardware echo cancelation.  However, there is work that is occurring on
the software echo cans to improve them.  In fact, I just committed
basically an update to
KB1
(which was until now the latest and greatest version of MEC2) that is
supposed to provide somewhat significant improvements.
>
> Quite a few people tend to have difficulties with echo, and although 
> the WIKI has some very helpful advice, from a business standpoint I 
> would think that it would be an important step to come up with a final
> solution to the problem.
>
> Many companies who make the higher end equipment seem to have tackled 
> the issue on their hardware.
>
> Do we know if digium is spending time on solving the issue?  For 
> example, having a tool to run on a digium analog or t1 board to 
> analyze the line statistics and come up with the proper gain settings 
> could be extremely helpful.
>
> Such a tool would require a firm knowledge of the causes and solutions
> to echo however, but I would assume that digium should have a grasp on
> this.
>
> It just seems difficult to suggest to companies to use an asterisk 
> based solution (if they do not use pri) when there is the possibility 
> that an installation will have issues with echo.
>
> At this point, it feels more like a trial experience to eliminate echo
> in various environments.
Unfortunately, that's the way it is right now.  Getting to the point
where you have enough knowledge to be able to work on these things is
not an insignificant task.
It seems like we're slowly getting there, and now that we have some more
interest on improving the software echo cans we might be a little be
closer to getting to the point where it "just works".
>
> I have used local tone from the CO to help narrow things down, but a 
> tool that would loop dial a line and do an analysis could reduce the 
> implementation time from days to hours.
Well, there isn't anything that does the "whole job" right now.  
There's a bunch
of pieces that go together, and if you have the necessary knowledge of
how to put the pieces together, you can get pretty close to it "just
working". 
  It's not that
bad though, one can also see it as job security as well :-)

Matthew Fredrickson

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Don't thank me, it's Mgernoth and kb1_kanobe that get the props for all 
of this.  They've been doing a lot of work to improve the software echo 
cancelers lately.

Matthew Fredrickson

On Oct 28, 2005, at 1:29 AM, gw@adcomcorp.com wrote:
> Hello Matthew,
> It is always nice to see improvements.  I look forward to testing your
> patches.
>
> It just seems that so many other hardware manufacturers have tackled 
> the
> problem, I am surprised digium has not put more research into getting
> the issue solved in software, which is possible, as opposed to coming 
> up
> with alternate solutions.
>
> Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
> [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Matthew
> Fredrickson
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:59 PM
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo Canceller question- is there a
> viablesolution?
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2005, at 12:38 AM, gw@adcomcorp.com wrote:
>> My question is, what is the direction in relation to analog boards and
>
>> such?
>
> Right now, it looks like the current fad of the asterisk group is
> hardware echo cancelation.  However, there is work that is occurring on
> the software echo cans to improve them.  In fact, I just committed
> basically an update to
> KB1
> (which was until now the latest and greatest version of MEC2) that is
> supposed to provide somewhat significant improvements.
>
>>
>> Quite a few people tend to have difficulties with echo, and although
>> the WIKI has some very helpful advice, from a business standpoint I
>> would think that it would be an important step to come up with a final
>
>> solution to the problem.
>>
>> Many companies who make the higher end equipment seem to have tackled
>> the issue on their hardware.
>>
>> Do we know if digium is spending time on solving the issue?  For
>> example, having a tool to run on a digium analog or t1 board to
>> analyze the line statistics and come up with the proper gain settings
>> could be extremely helpful.
>>
>> Such a tool would require a firm knowledge of the causes and solutions
>
>> to echo however, but I would assume that digium should have a grasp on
>
>> this.
>>
>> It just seems difficult to suggest to companies to use an asterisk
>> based solution (if they do not use pri) when there is the possibility
>> that an installation will have issues with echo.
>>
>> At this point, it feels more like a trial experience to eliminate echo
>
>> in various environments.
>
> Unfortunately, that's the way it is right now.  Getting to the point
> where you have enough knowledge to be able to work on these things is
> not an insignificant task.
> It seems like we're slowly getting there, and now that we have some 
> more
> interest on improving the software echo cans we might be a little be
> closer to getting to the point where it "just works".
>
>>
>> I have used local tone from the CO to help narrow things down, but a
>> tool that would loop dial a line and do an analysis could reduce the
>> implementation time from days to hours.
>
> Well, there isn't anything that does the "whole job" right
now.
> There's a bunch
> of pieces that go together, and if you have the necessary knowledge of
> how to put the pieces together, you can get pretty close to it "just
> working".
>   It's not that
> bad though, one can also see it as job security as well :-)
>
> Matthew Fredrickson
>
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com --
>
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
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>
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> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
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>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

> 
> Look at zaptel/zconfig.h and see what is uncommented.
[...]
> I am using the KB1 echo canceller.
The 'new' echo canceller is MG2. Please test. This is _extremely_ good
on PRI, but it's been reported to have some issues on 2 wire circuits.

--Rob