asterisk users - Apr 2005 - Re: Are there online forums instead of, this email

Having read a number of mailing list memos on this subject, there is 
much to be said for having a proper support forum BBS, rather than 
getting an awkward long memo with a string of messages every 3 to 5 hours.

Some of the advantages of a proper support forum BBS are:

  1. Support for message threads - replies to messages are shown right 
below the original message.

2. Support for subject matter sub forums - different message categories 
can be established.

3. Built in search engine - messages relevant to the problem you are 
working on can easily be located.

4. Moderated forums - postings and discussions can easily be supervised. 
Trouble makers can be banned from posting.


I have been involved in supporting another Linux based product for more 
than a year now via a proper web based support BBS setup, and it is a 
far superior approach to the Asterisk mailing list dump that this memo 
will end up in. Take a good look at:

http://www.astaro.org

This is the support BBS for Astaro Security Linux, a hardened Linux 
firewall distribution that delivers around 80% of the features of 
CheckPoint Software's Firewall-1, but at 20% of the cost. And they give 
away free licenses for non-commercial home use. Their support BBS 
currently has more than 9000 registered users.

It would do Digium well to establish a similar BBS, since it would 
dramatically ease the support issues for the membership. Running a web 
based BBS forum is not particularly load intensive, even if it ends up 
having many thousands of registered users.

Since Asterisk is here to stay, why not get serious about the support, 
and do it right?


Tore Hansen
Calgary, Alberta
Canada

On April 2, 2005 07:30 pm, Tore Hansen wrote:
> Having read a number of mailing list memos on this subject, there is
> much to be said for having a proper support forum BBS, rather than
> getting an awkward long memo with a string of messages every 3 to 5 hours.
"awkward long memo with a string of messages" ?? don't use
digests.  They're
evil.
>   1. Support for message threads - replies to messages are shown right
> below the original message.
>
> 2. Support for subject matter sub forums - different message categories
> can be established.
>
> 3. Built in search engine - messages relevant to the problem you are
> working on can easily be located.
>
> 4. Moderated forums - postings and discussions can easily be supervised.
> Trouble makers can be banned from posting.
With the exception to #3 there is nothing you've mentioned that a mailing
list
doesn't already do.  And #4 I don't see as an advantage at all, as has
been
discussed ad nauseam in this thread already.
> It would do Digium well to establish a similar BBS, since it would
> dramatically ease the support issues for the membership. Running a web
> based BBS forum is not particularly load intensive, even if it ends up
> having many thousands of registered users.
And it has all the problems we've already discussed on this list many times.
You've not given any example of how to overcome any of them.
> Since Asterisk is here to stay, why not get serious about the support,
> and do it right?
As we've said many times already...  You go do it.  If it's truly that
much
better, the subscribers will flock to them.  There have been numerous 
attempts over the last few years but the list still persists.

I really, *really* wish that the forum people would see that.  The forums that 
have been attempted must be missing *something* for them to fail.  What is 
it?  I believe it's the sheer simplicity, clarity, offline capabilities and 
semi-decentralized nature that keeps it strong.  But hey, feel free to prove 
me wrong.  Competition's healthy.

-A.

>  1. Support for message threads - replies to messages are shown right 
> below the original message.
Any decent mailer has that functionality.
> 2. Support for subject matter sub forums - different message 
> categories can be established.
You just split the list into differents mailing lists and you're done.
> 3. Built in search engine - messages relevant to the problem you are 
> working on can easily be located.
You can either use your mailer search functionality on your existing 
archives or google on the web archives.
> 4. Moderated forums - postings and discussions can easily be 
> supervised. Trouble makers can be banned from posting.
I'm grown up enough to deal with trouble makers myself. I don't want 
some daddy to decide what's good for me and what's not. Thanks.

(besides, mailing lists can be moderated too so this point is moot. You 
*really* should learn more about mailman...)
> I have been involved in supporting another Linux based product for 
> more than a year now via a proper web based support BBS setup, and it 
> is a far superior approach to the Asterisk mailing list dump that this 
> memo will end up in.
If you use digests, then you will get all messages in a big lumpy file. 
Don't use them, that's all. Again, you clearly show that you don't
know
squat about mailing lists.
> Take a good look at:
>
> http://www.astaro.org
It's a typical table based, invalid HTML, unusable, inaccessible web 
forum. It's just so nineties... thanks for making my point. My mail user 
agent provides a better interface than this website. If you can't 
understand why, maybe you should learn more about email and mailing lists...

* I have an asterisk subfolder which I call "useful" where I move 
messages which I find useful. Does your web thingy do that?

* I can go away for two weeks and see quickly messages which are read 
and messages which aren't. Does your web thingy do that?

* I can manage multiple mailing list through a single, simple, 
consistent interface - without having to remember different usernames / 
passwords. Does your web thingy do that?
> This is the support BBS for Astaro Security Linux, a hardened Linux 
> firewall distribution that delivers around 80% of the features of 
> CheckPoint Software's Firewall-1, but at 20% of the cost. And they 
> give away free licenses for non-commercial home use. Their support BBS 
> currently has more than 9000 registered users.
I use firehol. I have 100% of the firewall functionality I've got for 
zero cost. And they have a mailing list too :)
> It would do Digium well to establish a similar BBS, since it would 
> dramatically ease the support issues for the membership. Running a web 
> based BBS forum is not particularly load intensive, even if it ends up 
> having many thousands of registered users.
Well maybe a web forum thingy would be good for people who buy support 
from digium. But even in the case of paid support, I think email 
combined with "RT" (request tracker) makes a superior product.

Regards,

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