hi The laws in norway currently don't allow patenting algorithms as with many other countries. Does this mean I can use G.729 (http://www.vovida.org/applications/downloads/G729A/) without bothering the license? AFAIK this is the story with IDEA and probably all others... roy
Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: > The laws in norway currently don't allow patenting algorithms as with> many other countries. Does this mean I can use G.729 > (http://www.vovida.org/applications/downloads/G729A/) without bothering > the license? AFAIK this is the story with IDEA and probably all others...Check the international telecom treaties that Norway has signed. I'll bet they ensure that ITU specifications that contain patented stuff is protected. If you use G729 without a license you would not be breakng your conutry's patent law, you would be breaking an international treaty signed by your country. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: eric.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 146 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20041021/afff4637/eric.vcf
Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk [roy@karlsbakk.net] wrote:> The laws in norway currently don't allow patenting algorithms as with > many other countries. Does this mean I can use G.729 > (http://www.vovida.org/applications/downloads/G729A/) without bothering > the license? >Yes. -- _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ K e v i n W a l s h _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ kevin@cursor.biz _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/
Benjamin on Asterisk Mailing Lists
2004-Oct-21 10:12 UTC
[Asterisk-Users] G.729 licensing/patent?
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:34:31 +0200, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk <roy@karlsbakk.net> wrote:> > The laws in norway currently don't allow patenting algorithms as with > many other countries. Does this mean I can use G.729 > (http://www.vovida.org/applications/downloads/G729A/) without bothering > the license?First of all, the patents that concern G.729 are *not* for algorithms. They are for signal processing apparatus. At least that is what the patent applications claim and on which grounds those patents have been granted. Had the applications claimed algorithms, the patents would not have been granted in the first place. It is a matter of interpretation by the examiner at the relevant patent office. The examiner bought the story that the claims were for apparatus, not algorithms, and as a result the patents were granted and are legally in force. Even if all of the relevant patents had been granted in error, then this would still not change the fact that they remain in force. One would have to dispute them formally with the appropriate patent office and have them revoked by that PO or failing that, one would have to go to court and have them revoked by the court. One could of course simply infringe on the patents and wait for the patent holders to sue and hope to get the patents revoked in the resulting lawsuit. In any event, the process of getting a patent revoked is very bothersome and costly and the outcome is not necessarily obvious. As with any court case, being right doesn't automatically mean to win the case. Do you want to take the risk involved? No doubt, the patent system is in need of reform. It is fairly easy to get a questionable patent granted, but it is rather difficult to get such a patent revoked. Once granted -- bogus or not -- it will be in force, like it or not. You can take a chance, of course, but don't complain if you get yourself into trouble. In any event, this list -- and by extension any other list -- is not the right place to get legal advice. Go and pay a lawyer in your country for a consultation and written opinion on your particular concern. If you want to be really safe, hire a second lawyer and ask for a second written opinion. Whatever the advice from those professionals is, you can safely follow it because they will be liable for the advice they give you should the advice turn out to have been wrong and get you into trouble. Any advice you will get any other way is without any warranty and far more likely to get you into trouble. Follow it at your own peril. rgds benjk -- Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan. NB: Spam filters in place. Messages unrelated to the * mailing lists may get trashed.
Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote:> hi > > The laws in norway currently don't allow patenting algorithms as with > many other countries. Does this mean I can use G.729 > (http://www.vovida.org/applications/downloads/G729A/) without > bothering the license? AFAIK this is the story with IDEA and probably > all others...There are two groups of patents related to G.729 (and to other codecs, and to many other signal processing techniques, such as modems). There are patents for algorithms, and patents for signal processing apparatus. The ones about algorithms - generally computational techniques to speed it up - are not an issue outside the US. Even in the US they can generally be sidesteped, by using slower methods to achieve the same effect. The ones covering signal processing equipment exist in many markets, especially most of Europe. Whatever your view on software patents, as soon as you run a G.729 code somewhere you have a physical device infringing those patents. Regards, Steve
Can we just kill this thread for now as we have discussed enough on this already and we are not the judges who can rule it for good?. Just my $0.02 Cents Seshu Kanuri -----Original Message----- From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:26 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] G.729 licensing/patent?> There are two groups of patents related to G.729 (and to other codecs,> and to many other signal processing techniques, such as modems). There> are patents for algorithms, and patents for signal processing > apparatus. The ones about algorithms - generally computational > techniques to speed it up - are not an issue outside the US. Even in > the US they can generally be sidesteped, by using slower methods to > achieve the same effect. The ones covering signal processing equipment> exist in many markets, especially most of Europe. Whatever your view > on software patents, as soon as you run a G.729 code somewhere you > have a physical device infringing those patents.How can generic PC hardware be covered by a patent? It's just a piece of software, that is, algorithms neatly put together with some control etc. roy _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -------------------------------------------------------- NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited.
Kanuri, Seshu (Company IT) [Seshu.Kanuri@morganstanley.com] lazily top-posted:> Just my $0.02 Cents >I propose that an Asterisk development fund be set up to hold all of these $0.02 donations. People who are not quite as cheap could donate a little bit more. -- _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ K e v i n W a l s h _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ kevin@cursor.biz _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/
Amen On Oct 22, 2004, at 1:26 PM, Kevin Walsh wrote:> Kanuri, Seshu (Company IT) [Seshu.Kanuri@morganstanley.com] lazily > top-posted: >> Just my $0.02 Cents >> > I propose that an Asterisk development fund be set up to hold all of > these $0.02 donations. People who are not quite as cheap could donate > a little bit more. > > -- > _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ > _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ K e v i n W a l s h > _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ kevin@cursor.biz > _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ > > _______________________________________________ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users >