Team, We are trying to install Crossbow on VirtualBox. Siva first tried it on Linux and reported it in Hyderabad Open Solaris User Group alias. http://opensolaris.org/os/project/hosug/ Today both of us tried it on VirtualBox running on OpenSolaris. Both attempts have the same results. a. Selecting Solaris Developer Express during boot process exits the installation. See this picture: http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap01a.png b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process goes a little further and hangs the installation. See this picture: http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png Are we missing something? Did anyone successfully run this build on VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough. Any suggestion? TIA. Regards, - Raju -- -- Raju Alluri http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/crossbow-discuss/attachments/20080307/4abffa31/attachment.html>
Raju Alluri wrote:> Team, > > We are trying to install Crossbow on VirtualBox. Siva first tried it on > Linux and reported it in > Hyderabad Open Solaris User Group alias. > http://opensolaris.org/os/project/hosug/ > > Today both of us tried it on VirtualBox running on OpenSolaris. Both > attempts have the same results. > > a. Selecting Solaris Developer Express during boot process exits the > installation. See this picture: > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap01a.png > > b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process goes a little further > and hangs the installation. See > this picture: > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png > > Are we missing something? Did anyone successfully run this build on > VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space > and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough.I think the SDXE installer requires 768MB of memory. If possible, try allocating 1 GB of memory to be on the safe side. -John> > Any suggestion? TIA. > > Regards, > - Raju > > -- > -- > Raju Alluri > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > crossbow-discuss mailing list > crossbow-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/crossbow-discuss
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:01 AM, John Leser <John.Leser at sun.com> wrote:> Raju Alluri wrote: > > Team, > > > > We are trying to install Crossbow on VirtualBox. Siva first tried it on > > Linux and reported it in > > Hyderabad Open Solaris User Group alias. > > http://opensolaris.org/os/project/hosug/ > > > > Today both of us tried it on VirtualBox running on OpenSolaris. Both > > attempts have the same results. > > > > a. Selecting Solaris Developer Express during boot process exits the > > installation. See this picture: > > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap01a.png > > > > b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process goes a little further > > and hangs the installation. See > > this picture: > > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png > > > > Are we missing something? Did anyone successfully run this build on > > VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space > > and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough. > > I think the SDXE installer requires 768MB of memory. If possible, try > allocating 1 GB of memory to be on the safe side. >I tried with 1GB of memory too. Doesn''t make a difference. The image checksums are correct. We verified that one too. Regards, - Raju> -John > > > > > Any suggestion? TIA. > > > > Regards, > > - Raju > > > > -- > > -- > > Raju Alluri > > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > crossbow-discuss mailing list > > crossbow-discuss at opensolaris.org > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/crossbow-discuss > >-- -- Raju Alluri http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/crossbow-discuss/attachments/20080307/2e99c0b2/attachment.html>
Raju Alluri wrote:> > > > b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process goes a little > further > > and hangs the installation. See > > this picture: > > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png > > > > Are we missing something? Did anyone successfully run this build on > > VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space > > and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough. > > I think the SDXE installer requires 768MB of memory. If possible, try > allocating 1 GB of memory to be on the safe side. > > > I tried with 1GB of memory too. Doesn''t make a difference. > > The image checksums are correct. We verified that one too.do you go further when you sdo b, then select ''4'' (Solaris Interactive Text (Console Session)) ? Kais.> > Regards, > - Raju > > > -John > > > > > Any suggestion? TIA. > > > > Regards, > > - Raju > > >
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Kais Belgaied <Kais.Belgaied at sun.com> wrote:> Raju Alluri wrote: > > > > > > > b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process goes a little > > further > > > and hangs the installation. See > > > this picture: > > > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png > > > > > > Are we missing something? Did anyone successfully run this build > on > > > VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space > > > and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough. > > > > I think the SDXE installer requires 768MB of memory. If possible, > try > > allocating 1 GB of memory to be on the safe side. > > > > > > I tried with 1GB of memory too. Doesn''t make a difference. > > > > The image checksums are correct. We verified that one too. > > do you go further when you sdo b, then select ''4'' > (Solaris Interactive Text (Console Session)) ?Actually, I have been trying these alternatives. My 6th attempt, with the following combination - 1 GB RAM, - Solaris Express, (Not developer express) - Solaris Interactive Installation seems to proceed further, but hogs my 2GB RAM desktop. 10% install done so far. Will keep you posted. Thanks Kais and John for taking time to respond... Regards, - Raju Kais.> > > > > Regards, > > - Raju > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > Any suggestion? TIA. > > > > > > Regards, > > > - Raju > > > > > > >-- -- Raju Alluri http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/crossbow-discuss/attachments/20080307/d257fa06/attachment.html>
Finally, this combination worked and I could run crossbow early access Feb14th edition in VirtualBox. - Solaris Express Community Edition - 1GB RAM for the machine - Default install (Solaris Interactive) The install as well as first boot (including service definitions of SMF) took a very long time. Subsequent reboots are reasonably okay. Yet to play with the actual installation. This is just an interim report. Regards, - Raju On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Raju Alluri <spurthi at gmail.com> wrote:> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Kais Belgaied <Kais.Belgaied at sun.com> > wrote: > > > Raju Alluri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process goes a little > > > further > > > > and hangs the installation. See > > > > this picture: > > > > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png > > > > > > > > Are we missing something? Did anyone successfully run this build > > on > > > > VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space > > > > and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough. > > > > > > I think the SDXE installer requires 768MB of memory. If possible, > > try > > > allocating 1 GB of memory to be on the safe side. > > > > > > > > > I tried with 1GB of memory too. Doesn''t make a difference. > > > > > > The image checksums are correct. We verified that one too. > > > > do you go further when you sdo b, then select ''4'' > > (Solaris Interactive Text (Console Session)) ? > > > Actually, I have been trying these alternatives. > > My 6th attempt, with the following combination > - 1 GB RAM, > - Solaris Express, (Not developer express) > - Solaris Interactive Installation > seems to proceed further, but hogs my 2GB RAM desktop. 10% install done so > far. > Will keep you posted. Thanks Kais and John for taking time to respond... > > Regards, > - Raju > > > Kais. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > > > Any suggestion? TIA. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -- > Raju Alluri > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ >-- -- Raju Alluri http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/crossbow-discuss/attachments/20080307/fd7a0b3b/attachment.html>
Perfect! I think I had mentioned to some people but I forgot to put it on the notes that you will need to use Solaris Interactive install and not the SXDE install option. Anyway, this is great. Thanks, Sunay Raju Alluri wrote:> Finally, this combination worked and I could run crossbow early access > Feb14th edition in VirtualBox. > > - Solaris Express Community Edition > - 1GB RAM for the machine > - Default install (Solaris Interactive) > > The install as well as first boot (including service definitions of SMF) > took a very long time. Subsequent reboots are reasonably okay. > > Yet to play with the actual installation. This is just an interim report. > > Regards, > - Raju > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Raju Alluri <spurthi at gmail.com > <mailto:spurthi at gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Kais Belgaied > <Kais.Belgaied at sun.com <mailto:Kais.Belgaied at sun.com>> wrote: > > Raju Alluri wrote: > > > > > > > b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process goes a > little > > further > > > and hangs the installation. See > > > this picture: > > > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png > > > > > > Are we missing something? Did anyone successfully run > this build on > > > VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space > > > and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough. > > > > I think the SDXE installer requires 768MB of memory. If > possible, try > > allocating 1 GB of memory to be on the safe side. > > > > > > I tried with 1GB of memory too. Doesn''t make a difference. > > > > The image checksums are correct. We verified that one too. > > do you go further when you sdo b, then select ''4'' > (Solaris Interactive Text (Console Session)) ? > > > Actually, I have been trying these alternatives. > > My 6th attempt, with the following combination > - 1 GB RAM, > - Solaris Express, (Not developer express) > - Solaris Interactive Installation > seems to proceed further, but hogs my 2GB RAM desktop. 10% install > done so far. > Will keep you posted. Thanks Kais and John for taking time to respond... > > Regards, > - Raju > > > Kais. > > > > > Regards, > > - Raju > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > Any suggestion? TIA. > > > > > > Regards, > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > > -- > -- > Raju Alluri > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > > > -- > -- > Raju Alluri > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > crossbow-discuss mailing list > crossbow-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/crossbow-discuss-- Sunay Tripathi Distinguished Engineer Solaris Core Operating System Sun MicroSystems Inc. Solaris Networking: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/networking Project Crossbow: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/crossbow
This seems to be a nice candidate for our instructions/manual/release notes. Do we have a page for this? How can we help improve the documentation? Even though the final product may look very different, can we have an evolving release notes page for each early access drop? Regards, - Raju On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Sunay Tripathi <Sunay.Tripathi at sun.com> wrote:> Perfect! I think I had mentioned to some people but I forgot to put it > on the notes that you will need to use Solaris Interactive install and > not the SXDE install option. Anyway, this is great. > > Thanks, > Sunay > > Raju Alluri wrote: > > Finally, this combination worked and I could run crossbow early access > > Feb14th edition in VirtualBox. > > > > - Solaris Express Community Edition > > - 1GB RAM for the machine > > - Default install (Solaris Interactive) > > > > The install as well as first boot (including service definitions of SMF) > > took a very long time. Subsequent reboots are reasonably okay. > > > > Yet to play with the actual installation. This is just an interim > report. > > > > Regards, > > - Raju > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Raju Alluri <spurthi at gmail.com > > <mailto:spurthi at gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Kais Belgaied > > <Kais.Belgaied at sun.com <mailto:Kais.Belgaied at sun.com>> wrote: > > > > Raju Alluri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process goes a > > little > > > further > > > > and hangs the installation. See > > > > this picture: > > > > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png > > > > > > > > Are we missing something? Did anyone successfully run > > this build on > > > > VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space > > > > and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough. > > > > > > I think the SDXE installer requires 768MB of memory. If > > possible, try > > > allocating 1 GB of memory to be on the safe side. > > > > > > > > > I tried with 1GB of memory too. Doesn''t make a difference. > > > > > > The image checksums are correct. We verified that one too. > > > > do you go further when you sdo b, then select ''4'' > > (Solaris Interactive Text (Console Session)) ? > > > > > > Actually, I have been trying these alternatives. > > > > My 6th attempt, with the following combination > > - 1 GB RAM, > > - Solaris Express, (Not developer express) > > - Solaris Interactive Installation > > seems to proceed further, but hogs my 2GB RAM desktop. 10% install > > done so far. > > Will keep you posted. Thanks Kais and John for taking time to > respond... > > > > Regards, > > - Raju > > > > > > Kais. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > > > Any suggestion? TIA. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > Raju Alluri > > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > Raju Alluri > > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > crossbow-discuss mailing list > > crossbow-discuss at opensolaris.org > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/crossbow-discuss > > > -- > Sunay Tripathi > Distinguished Engineer > Solaris Core Operating System > Sun MicroSystems Inc. > > Solaris Networking: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/networking > Project Crossbow: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/crossbow > > >-- -- Raju Alluri http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/crossbow-discuss/attachments/20080307/9402e7a5/attachment.html>
Sorry for the noise here ;-). My previous mail went too soon. The Solaris Express option is mentioned in the release notes here. http://dlc.sun.com/osol/netvirt/downloads/20080213/release_notes Virtual Box seems to be a good use case going forward, but given the timeline (Feb 14th) of the previous drop, we may not have spent much time on Virtual Box by then. Now the only open issue I have: What is the realistic RAM requirement if we are installing on a physical disk partition? 1GB seems too much. Regards, - Raju On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Raju Alluri <spurthi at gmail.com> wrote:> This seems to be a nice candidate for our instructions/manual/release > notes. Do we have a page for this? How can we help improve the > documentation? > > Even though the final product may look very different, can we have an > evolving release notes page for each early access drop? > > Regards, > - Raju > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Sunay Tripathi <Sunay.Tripathi at sun.com> > wrote: > > > Perfect! I think I had mentioned to some people but I forgot to put it > > on the notes that you will need to use Solaris Interactive install and > > not the SXDE install option. Anyway, this is great. > > > > Thanks, > > Sunay > > > > Raju Alluri wrote: > > > Finally, this combination worked and I could run crossbow early access > > > Feb14th edition in VirtualBox. > > > > > > - Solaris Express Community Edition > > > - 1GB RAM for the machine > > > - Default install (Solaris Interactive) > > > > > > The install as well as first boot (including service definitions of > > SMF) > > > took a very long time. Subsequent reboots are reasonably okay. > > > > > > Yet to play with the actual installation. This is just an interim > > report. > > > > > > Regards, > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Raju Alluri <spurthi at gmail.com > > > <mailto:spurthi at gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Kais Belgaied > > > <Kais.Belgaied at sun.com <mailto:Kais.Belgaied at sun.com>> wrote: > > > > > > Raju Alluri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process goes > > a > > > little > > > > further > > > > > and hangs the installation. See > > > > > this picture: > > > > > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png > > > > > > > > > > Are we missing something? Did anyone successfully run > > > this build on > > > > > VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space > > > > > and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough. > > > > > > > > I think the SDXE installer requires 768MB of memory. > > If > > > possible, try > > > > allocating 1 GB of memory to be on the safe side. > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried with 1GB of memory too. Doesn''t make a difference. > > > > > > > > The image checksums are correct. We verified that one too. > > > > > > do you go further when you sdo b, then select ''4'' > > > (Solaris Interactive Text (Console Session)) ? > > > > > > > > > Actually, I have been trying these alternatives. > > > > > > My 6th attempt, with the following combination > > > - 1 GB RAM, > > > - Solaris Express, (Not developer express) > > > - Solaris Interactive Installation > > > seems to proceed further, but hogs my 2GB RAM desktop. 10% install > > > done so far. > > > Will keep you posted. Thanks Kais and John for taking time to > > respond... > > > > > > Regards, > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > Kais. > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any suggestion? TIA. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > Raju Alluri > > > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > Raju Alluri > > > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > crossbow-discuss mailing list > > > crossbow-discuss at opensolaris.org > > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/crossbow-discuss > > > > > > -- > > Sunay Tripathi > > Distinguished Engineer > > Solaris Core Operating System > > Sun MicroSystems Inc. > > > > Solaris Networking: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/networking > > Project Crossbow: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/crossbow > > > > > > > > > -- > -- > Raju Alluri > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ >-- -- Raju Alluri http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/crossbow-discuss/attachments/20080307/8d3830c7/attachment.html>
Absolutely. I think we should have teh final bits out in next week itself and we already have better documentation, release etc with it. We will definitely add this. Cheers, Sunay Raju Alluri wrote:> This seems to be a nice candidate for our instructions/manual/release > notes. Do we have a page for this? How can we help improve the > documentation? > > Even though the final product may look very different, can we have an > evolving release notes page for each early access drop? > > Regards, > - Raju > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Sunay Tripathi <Sunay.Tripathi at sun.com > <mailto:Sunay.Tripathi at sun.com>> wrote: > > Perfect! I think I had mentioned to some people but I forgot to put it > on the notes that you will need to use Solaris Interactive install and > not the SXDE install option. Anyway, this is great. > > Thanks, > Sunay > > Raju Alluri wrote: > > Finally, this combination worked and I could run crossbow early > access > > Feb14th edition in VirtualBox. > > > > - Solaris Express Community Edition > > - 1GB RAM for the machine > > - Default install (Solaris Interactive) > > > > The install as well as first boot (including service definitions > of SMF) > > took a very long time. Subsequent reboots are reasonably okay. > > > > Yet to play with the actual installation. This is just an interim > report. > > > > Regards, > > - Raju > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Raju Alluri <spurthi at gmail.com > <mailto:spurthi at gmail.com> > > <mailto:spurthi at gmail.com <mailto:spurthi at gmail.com>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Kais Belgaied > > <Kais.Belgaied at sun.com <mailto:Kais.Belgaied at sun.com> > <mailto:Kais.Belgaied at sun.com <mailto:Kais.Belgaied at sun.com>>> wrote: > > > > Raju Alluri wrote: > > > > > > > > > > b. Selecting Solaris Express during boot process > goes a > > little > > > further > > > > and hangs the installation. See > > > > this picture: > > > > http://spurthi.googlepages.com/cbowcap02a.png > > > > > > > > Are we missing something? Did anyone > successfully run > > this build on > > > > VirtualBox? We allocated 8GB space > > > > and 512 MB RAM, which should be good enough. > > > > > > I think the SDXE installer requires 768MB of > memory. If > > possible, try > > > allocating 1 GB of memory to be on the safe side. > > > > > > > > > I tried with 1GB of memory too. Doesn''t make a difference. > > > > > > The image checksums are correct. We verified that one too. > > > > do you go further when you sdo b, then select ''4'' > > (Solaris Interactive Text (Console Session)) ? > > > > > > Actually, I have been trying these alternatives. > > > > My 6th attempt, with the following combination > > - 1 GB RAM, > > - Solaris Express, (Not developer express) > > - Solaris Interactive Installation > > seems to proceed further, but hogs my 2GB RAM desktop. 10% > install > > done so far. > > Will keep you posted. Thanks Kais and John for taking time to > respond... > > > > Regards, > > - Raju > > > > > > Kais. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > -John > > > > > > > > > > > Any suggestion? TIA. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > - Raju > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > Raju Alluri > > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > Raju Alluri > > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > crossbow-discuss mailing list > > crossbow-discuss at opensolaris.org > <mailto:crossbow-discuss at opensolaris.org> > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/crossbow-discuss > > > -- > Sunay Tripathi > Distinguished Engineer > Solaris Core Operating System > Sun MicroSystems Inc. > > Solaris Networking: > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/networking > Project Crossbow: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/crossbow > > > > > > -- > -- > Raju Alluri > http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/-- Sunay Tripathi Distinguished Engineer Solaris Core Operating System Sun MicroSystems Inc. Solaris Networking: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/networking Project Crossbow: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/crossbow
Raju Alluri wrote:> Sorry for the noise here ;-). My previous mail went too soon. The > Solaris Express option is mentioned in the release notes here. > > http://dlc.sun.com/osol/netvirt/downloads/20080213/release_notes > > Virtual Box seems to be a good use case going forward, but given the > timeline (Feb 14th) of the previous drop, we may not have spent much > time on Virtual Box by then. > > Now the only open issue I have: What is the realistic RAM requirement > if we are installing on a physical disk partition? 1GB seems too much.I was able to install the beta release as a xen guest domain with 768MB physical RAM. Kais.> > Regards, > - Raju >
[snip]> I was able to install the beta release as a xen guest domain with 768MB > physical RAM. >Thanks Kais. Regards, - Raju> > > Kais. > > >-- -- Raju Alluri http://raju.spurthi.com/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/crossbow-discuss/attachments/20080316/27811fca/attachment.html>