Hello!
[Cc to stable@, for wider audience]
The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/,
meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would
be shipped without them.
1) AppleTalk
Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice
had very little use since 90th.
Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2].
2) IPX
Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[3]. In practice
had very little use since 90th.
Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2011[4].
Current status of these protocols in FreeBSD is "compilable". For the
next couple of years, we plan a lot of changes in networking stack,
many of which will require changing the protocols, as well. Keeping
them in compilable state would require additional manpower, but it
is very probable, that after all the changes they will be utterly
broken, albeit compilable.
P.S. I account any objector as taker of maintainership :)
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.6
[2]
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps5460/product_bulletin_c25-520459.html
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Enterprise_Server#OES-NetWare
[4]
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/novipx/configuration/guide/Novell_IPX_Discontinuation.html
--
Totus tuus, Glebius.
Hi, On 28 Oct 2013, at 12:42, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:> Hello! > > [Cc to stable@, for wider audience] > > The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/, > meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would > be shipped without them. > > 1) AppleTalk > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2].More pertinantly, netatalk dropped AppleTalk support with v3.0 in 2012[a]. [a] http://netatalk.sourceforge.net/3.0/ReleaseNotes-3.0-alpha1.html> 2) IPX > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[3]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2011[4]. > > Current status of these protocols in FreeBSD is "compilable". For the > next couple of years, we plan a lot of changes in networking stack, > many of which will require changing the protocols, as well. Keeping > them in compilable state would require additional manpower, but it > is very probable, that after all the changes they will be utterly > broken, albeit compilable. > > P.S. I account any objector as taker of maintainership :) > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.6 > [2] http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps5460/product_bulletin_c25-520459.html > [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Enterprise_Server#OES-NetWare > [4] http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/novipx/configuration/guide/Novell_IPX_Discontinuation.html > > -- > Totus tuus, Glebius. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current at freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe at freebsd.org" >-- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 940 1243 rb at gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 940 1295 mobile +44 (0)783 626 4518
Hi, On 28 Oct 2013, at 12:42, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:> Hello! > > [Cc to stable@, for wider audience] > > The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/, > meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would > be shipped without them. > > 1) AppleTalk > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2].More pertinantly, netatalk dropped AppleTalk support with v3.0 in 2012[a]. [a] http://netatalk.sourceforge.net/3.0/ReleaseNotes-3.0-alpha1.html> 2) IPX > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[3]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2011[4]. > > Current status of these protocols in FreeBSD is "compilable". For the > next couple of years, we plan a lot of changes in networking stack, > many of which will require changing the protocols, as well. Keeping > them in compilable state would require additional manpower, but it > is very probable, that after all the changes they will be utterly > broken, albeit compilable. > > P.S. I account any objector as taker of maintainership :) > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.6 > [2] http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps5460/product_bulletin_c25-520459.html > [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Enterprise_Server#OES-NetWare > [4] http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/novipx/configuration/guide/Novell_IPX_Discontinuation.html > > -- > Totus tuus, Glebius. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >-- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 940 1243 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 940 1295 mobile +44 (0)783 626 4518 _______________________________________________ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
On 10/28/13 07:42, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:> Hello! > > [Cc to stable@, for wider audience] > > The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/, > meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would > be shipped without them. > > 1) AppleTalk > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2].I actually still use this.> Current status of these protocols in FreeBSD is "compilable". For the > next couple of years, we plan a lot of changes in networking stack, > many of which will require changing the protocols, as well. Keeping > them in compilable state would require additional manpower, but it > is very probable, that after all the changes they will be utterly > broken, albeit compilable.Given that Appletalk currently is in a much state than "compilable", how serious are these changes?> P.S. I account any objector as taker of maintainership :) >If they are minor, I volunteer for Appletalk. Otherwise, axe away... -Nathan _______________________________________________ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
On 10/28/13 07:42, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:> Hello! > > [Cc to stable@, for wider audience] > > The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/, > meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would > be shipped without them. > > 1) AppleTalk > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2].I actually still use this.> Current status of these protocols in FreeBSD is "compilable". For the > next couple of years, we plan a lot of changes in networking stack, > many of which will require changing the protocols, as well. Keeping > them in compilable state would require additional manpower, but it > is very probable, that after all the changes they will be utterly > broken, albeit compilable.Given that Appletalk currently is in a much state than "compilable", how serious are these changes?> P.S. I account any objector as taker of maintainership :) >If they are minor, I volunteer for Appletalk. Otherwise, axe away... -Nathan
On 10/28/13 8:42 PM, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:> Hello! > > [Cc to stable@, for wider audience] > > The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/, > meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would > be shipped without them. > > 1) AppleTalk > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2].I did a lot of work on this to get it going in the 90s but really it''s only current value is as an example of a non-IP protocol. (and the same for IPX, which was what Novell used to use I believe.) I''d be pretty amazed to discover anyone still used either. ok I did see someone talking about IPX a while back but, really it should probably go.. the timeframe is good.. "shoot in 11" :-)> 2) IPX > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[3]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2011[4]. > > Current status of these protocols in FreeBSD is "compilable". For the > next couple of years, we plan a lot of changes in networking stack, > many of which will require changing the protocols, as well. Keeping > them in compilable state would require additional manpower, but it > is very probable, that after all the changes they will be utterly > broken, albeit compilable. > > P.S. I account any objector as taker of maintainership :) > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.6 > [2] http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps5460/product_bulletin_c25-520459.html > [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Enterprise_Server#OES-NetWare > [4] http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/novipx/configuration/guide/Novell_IPX_Discontinuation.html >_______________________________________________ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
On 10/28/13 8:42 PM, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:> Hello! > > [Cc to stable@, for wider audience] > > The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/, > meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would > be shipped without them. > > 1) AppleTalk > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2].I did a lot of work on this to get it going in the 90s but really it's only current value is as an example of a non-IP protocol. (and the same for IPX, which was what Novell used to use I believe.) I'd be pretty amazed to discover anyone still used either. ok I did see someone talking about IPX a while back but, really it should probably go.. the timeframe is good.. "shoot in 11" :-)> 2) IPX > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[3]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2011[4]. > > Current status of these protocols in FreeBSD is "compilable". For the > next couple of years, we plan a lot of changes in networking stack, > many of which will require changing the protocols, as well. Keeping > them in compilable state would require additional manpower, but it > is very probable, that after all the changes they will be utterly > broken, albeit compilable. > > P.S. I account any objector as taker of maintainership :) > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.6 > [2] http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/iosswrel/ps8802/ps5460/product_bulletin_c25-520459.html > [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Enterprise_Server#OES-NetWare > [4] http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/novipx/configuration/guide/Novell_IPX_Discontinuation.html >
Am 28.10.2013 um 13:42 schrieb Gleb Smirnoff <glebius at FreeBSD.org>:> The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/, > meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would > be shipped without them. > > 1) AppleTalk > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2].Since Apple has now even deprecated AFP (the file sharing protocol implemented by netatalk, among others), it?s time to let go. There?s a thriving historic enthusiast community around older Macs and Apple IIs, and I can report that FreeBSD 4 (including then-current versions of netatalk and for those who care, macipgw) works just fine in VirtualBox, on FreeBSD 9-stable. Newer FreeBSD versions will likely work as well. Since AppleTalk (DDP and the layer 3 protocols on top of it) were originally tuned for LocalTalk and it?s 230.4 kbps rate, running a virtualized OS on even very modest hardware will likely incur no performance penalty, so just shove a VM onto any old box. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke <stb at lassitu.de> Fon +49 151 14070811
Am 28.10.2013 um 13:42 schrieb Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@FreeBSD.org>:> The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/, > meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would > be shipped without them. > > 1) AppleTalk > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice > had very little use since 90th. > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2].Since Apple has now even deprecated AFP (the file sharing protocol implemented by netatalk, among others), it’s time to let go. There’s a thriving historic enthusiast community around older Macs and Apple IIs, and I can report that FreeBSD 4 (including then-current versions of netatalk and for those who care, macipgw) works just fine in VirtualBox, on FreeBSD 9-stable. Newer FreeBSD versions will likely work as well. Since AppleTalk (DDP and the layer 3 protocols on top of it) were originally tuned for LocalTalk and it’s 230.4 kbps rate, running a virtualized OS on even very modest hardware will likely incur no performance penalty, so just shove a VM onto any old box. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke <stb@lassitu.de> Fon +49 151 14070811 _______________________________________________ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 19:54 +0100, Stefan Bethke wrote:> Am 28.10.2013 um 13:42 schrieb Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@FreeBSD.org>: > > > The plan is two axe two old networking protocols from FreeBSD head/, > > meaning that FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE, available in couple of years would > > be shipped without them. > > > > 1) AppleTalk > > > > Last time claimed to be supported by vendor in 2007[1]. In practice > > had very little use since 90th. > > Discontinued by major routing equipment vendors since 2009[2]. > > Since Apple has now even deprecated AFP (the file sharing protocol implemented by netatalk, among others), it’s time to let go. > > There’s a thriving historic enthusiast community around older Macs and Apple IIs, and I can report that FreeBSD 4 (including then-current versions of netatalk and for those who care, macipgw) works just fine in VirtualBox, on FreeBSD 9-stable. Newer FreeBSD versions will likely work as well. Since AppleTalk (DDP and the layer 3 protocols on top of it) were originally tuned for LocalTalk and it’s 230.4 kbps rate, running a virtualized OS on even very modest hardware will likely incur no performance penalty, so just shove a VM onto any old box. >Remember too that what's really being said here is that it will be gone from 11; it's still in FreeBSD 10, and that means FreeBSD will still support those protocols (as much as possible given the lack of upstream support) for many years to come. Think of this as "You have about 4 years to make other arrangements before this support is gone." -- Ian _______________________________________________ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"