Dear R project, I have a very simple question: How, in late 2019, is there an option called "--slave" to "make R run as quietly as possible"? Let me reiterate that it is 2019, i.e. "The Future", rather than 1970 when R was presumably developed, based on its atrocious syntax, documentation and usability (I think I only need to say "NaN", "NULL", and "NA"). This is a disgrace and it should have been addressed one or two decades ago. Why not just "--quiet"? Please do not mention "backwards compatibility". For the historically inclined, it does not make much of a difference whether the term evokes the Roman, Greek, American or modern kind of slavery for you: it is as disgusting as it gets. Thank you, Ben -- Benjamin Lang, PhD http://orcid.org/0000-0001-6358-8380 Marie Sklodowska-Curie Postdoctoral Fellow (MSCA-IF) Gene Function and Evolution (Dr. Gian Tartaglia) Centre for Genomic Regulation (CRG), Barcelona, Spain [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
For what it's worth, this is an ongoing conversation in computer science and engineering. And has been so for decades. Not R, but related to this it's only in the past few months that a fork of the photo-manipulation software GIMP (slur for handicapped) renames it (GLIMPSE). Note, I am not saying this isn't a battle worth fighting. On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:52 PM Benjamin Lang <benjamin.lang at crg.eu> wrote:> > Dear R project, > > I have a very simple question: > > How, in late 2019, is there an option called "--slave" to "make R run as > quietly as possible"? > > Let me reiterate that it is 2019, i.e. "The Future", rather than 1970 when > R was presumably developed, based on its atrocious syntax, documentation > and usability (I think I only need to say "NaN", "NULL", and "NA"). > > This is a disgrace and it should have been addressed one or two decades > ago. Why not just "--quiet"? > > Please do not mention "backwards compatibility". For the historically > inclined, it does not make much of a difference whether the term evokes the > Roman, Greek, American or modern kind of slavery for you: it is as > disgusting as it gets. > > Thank you, > Ben > > -- > Benjamin Lang, PhD > http://orcid.org/0000-0001-6358-8380 > > Marie Sklodowska-Curie Postdoctoral Fellow (MSCA-IF) > Gene Function and Evolution (Dr. Gian Tartaglia) > Centre for Genomic Regulation (CRG), Barcelona, Spain > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
I think there is no confusion except in the minds of those with nothing better to do. I agree with Antirez, quoted in [1], which nevertheless indicates that perspective lost the debate. Any accurate alternative notation will have similar connotations because in fact the "slave" side of that relationship is completely subordinate to the "master" side... there is no escaping that fact. It requires a very different and more complicated architecture to achieve a "peer" relationship, which often is not worth the effort or even appropriate. So while Dr Lang may be mollified by a change in notation, someone else is going to find the new words offensive and make the same PC argument since the implications of the architecture have not changed. In fact there should never have been a parallel drawn between the morality of human slavery and computing architectures to begin with. [1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8x7akv/masterslave-terminology-was-removed-from-python-programming-language On September 18, 2019 11:57:32 AM PDT, "Patrick (Malone Quantitative)" <malone at malonequantitative.com> wrote:>For what it's worth, this is an ongoing conversation in computer >science and engineering. And has been so for decades. > >Not R, but related to this it's only in the past few months that a >fork of the photo-manipulation software GIMP (slur for handicapped) >renames it (GLIMPSE). > >Note, I am not saying this isn't a battle worth fighting. > >On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:52 PM Benjamin Lang <benjamin.lang at crg.eu> >wrote: >> >> Dear R project, >> >> I have a very simple question: >> >> How, in late 2019, is there an option called "--slave" to "make R run >as >> quietly as possible"? >> >> Let me reiterate that it is 2019, i.e. "The Future", rather than 1970 >when >> R was presumably developed, based on its atrocious syntax, >documentation >> and usability (I think I only need to say "NaN", "NULL", and "NA"). >> >> This is a disgrace and it should have been addressed one or two >decades >> ago. Why not just "--quiet"? >> >> Please do not mention "backwards compatibility". For the historically >> inclined, it does not make much of a difference whether the term >evokes the >> Roman, Greek, American or modern kind of slavery for you: it is as >> disgusting as it gets. >> >> Thank you, >> Ben >> >> -- >> Benjamin Lang, PhD >> http://orcid.org/0000-0001-6358-8380 >> >> Marie Sklodowska-Curie Postdoctoral Fellow (MSCA-IF) >> Gene Function and Evolution (Dr. Gian Tartaglia) >> Centre for Genomic Regulation (CRG), Barcelona, Spain >> >> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide >http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > >______________________________________________ >R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see >https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >PLEASE do read the posting guide >http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.-- Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On 18/09/19 6:00 PM, Benjamin Lang wrote:> Dear R project, > > I have a very simple question: > > How, in late 2019, is there an option called "--slave" to "make R run as > quietly as possible"? > > Let me reiterate that it is 2019, i.e. "The Future", rather than 1970 when > R was presumably developed, based on its atrocious syntax, documentation > and usability (I think I only need to say "NaN", "NULL", and "NA"). > > This is a disgrace and it should have been addressed one or two decades > ago. Why not just "--quiet"? > > Please do not mention "backwards compatibility".Personally I much prefer backwards compatibility to political correctness.> For the historically > inclined, it does not make much of a difference whether the term evokes the > Roman, Greek, American or modern kind of slavery for you: it is as > disgusting as it gets.IMHO this is a precious PC quibble, taking offence where no offence is intended. If you are really concerned about literal slavery --- as everyone should be --- then join/contribute to an appropriate activist organisation (e.g. Amnesty International, which is my personal choice). cheers, Rolf Turner -- Honorary Research Fellow Department of Statistics University of Auckland Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276
> Personally I much prefer backwards compatibility to political correctness.I agree with Rolf, here. And as someone that's planning to write a Linux Terminal Emulator, in the medium-term future, I *strongly* defend this approach. And to the original poster. Haven't you seen The Matrix? (Second best movie ever, after the Shawshank Redemption). I would prefer the technology to be my slave, than I be a prisoner/slave to the technology.
I prefer backward compatibility to PC too, but since we're on the topic, My personal PC advocacy is against the term blacklist always being associated with some "negatives". A search of CRAN found several packages using this term. I advocate using a more descriptive term, such. Falsepositivelist truenegativelist forbiddenlist etc.. Package maintainers can keep the old term, but please mark it as deprecated. Thank you for your consideration. Hugues Sicotte -----Original Message----- From: R-help [mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org] On Behalf Of Rolf Turner Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 6:10 PM To: Benjamin Lang Cc: r-help at r-project.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [R] The "--slave" option On 18/09/19 6:00 PM, Benjamin Lang wrote:> Dear R project, > > I have a very simple question: > > How, in late 2019, is there an option called "--slave" to "make R run as > quietly as possible"? > > Let me reiterate that it is 2019, i.e. "The Future", rather than 1970 when > R was presumably developed, based on its atrocious syntax, documentation > and usability (I think I only need to say "NaN", "NULL", and "NA"). > > This is a disgrace and it should have been addressed one or two decades > ago. Why not just "--quiet"? > > Please do not mention "backwards compatibility".Personally I much prefer backwards compatibility to political correctness.> For the historically > inclined, it does not make much of a difference whether the term evokes the > Roman, Greek, American or modern kind of slavery for you: it is as > disgusting as it gets.IMHO this is a precious PC quibble, taking offence where no offence is intended. If you are really concerned about literal slavery --- as everyone should be --- then join/contribute to an appropriate activist organisation (e.g. Amnesty International, which is my personal choice). cheers, Rolf Turner -- Honorary Research Fellow Department of Statistics University of Auckland Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276 ______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 03:14:44PM +1200, Richard O'Keefe wrote:> The one thing "slave" does not mean in technology is any kind of human > being.At risk of repeating what someone else said, we are most likely not dealing with a human but with a "supernatural being, often represented as of diminutive size, but sometimes as a giant, and fabled to inhabit caves, hills, and like places", as from exhibit A On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 08:00:00AM +0200, Benjamin Lang wrote:> Let me reiterate that it is 2019, i.e. "The Future", rather than 1970 when > R was presumably developed, based on its atrocious syntax, documentation > and usability (I think I only need to say "NaN", "NULL", and "NA").I suggest not to fatten such a magical creature!