> On Jun 3, 2019, at 4:40 PM, Abby Spurdle <spurdle.a at gmail.com> wrote: > >> If you go here: >> https://cran.cnr.berkeley.edu/bin/windows/base >> you see EXE installers for Windows. This contrasts with other programming >> languages that offer both an executable installer and ZIP files that can > be >> extracted and run > > Are you suggesting that R should do the same? > If so, I second that, excellent idea. > (However, gzip preferred). > > I've had significant problems with the Windows installer. > I've never had significant problems with zip files. > Also, I assuming that the zip approach would be easier for systems > administrators. > However, I'm not a systems administrator... > > > AbsHi, First, I do not speak for R Core, who would, in the end, be responsible for offering something official here. Second, prior discussions on this topic have generally pointed to: https://sourceforge.net/projects/rportable/ as one source for a portable version of R, albeit, with some dependencies (e.g. PortableApps framework) That being said, again, based upon prior discussions on this topic, the typical reason for needing a ZIP archive of an R installation, is to circumvent Windows OS security restrictions, whereby a useR does not have the requisite Admin rights to install R via the default installer. Thus, you can presumably download a ZIP of an R installation, unzip it in a location of your choosing, whereby you can then execute/run the R .exe binary. If you can't do that, then a ZIP will not be helpful to you. I have not tried it, but if that is the case here, you may be able to use the normal R binary installer, but adjust the default install options when prompted, allowing you to customize the install location and other parameters, that may be suitable in the absence of Admin rights. Prior statements, not official, would suggest that R Core is not likely to assist in providing official options for useRs to circumvent OS security restrictions. Regards, Marc Schwartz
On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 4:11 PM Marc Schwartz wrote:> I have not tried it, but if that is the case here, you may be able to use the > normal R binary installer, but adjust the default install options when > prompted, allowing you to customize the install location and other parameters, > that may be suitable in the absence of Admin rights. > > Prior statements, not official, would suggest that R Core is not likely to > assist in providing official options for useRs to circumvent OS security > restrictions.Theres nothing nefarious here. It would allow people to use the R environment without running an installer. If someone is a new user they may want to try R out, and installers can be invasive as they commonly: - copy files to install dir - copy files to profile dir - set registry entries - set environment variables - set start menu entries and historically uninstallers have a bad record of reverting these changes. should not put this burden upon new users or even having them resort to virtual machine to avoid items above. having a ZIP file allows new users to run the R environment, then if they like it perhaps they can run the installer going forward. Are you familiar with Windows? As everything I am describing hasnt changed in at least 20 years. I dont have a criticism of the R installer, I have not run tests to be able to determine if its well behaved or not. Its the *not knowing* that is the issue. With Windows, every installer could be perceived as a "black box".
> On Jun 3, 2019, at 6:31 PM, Steven Penny <svnpenn at gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 4:11 PM Marc Schwartz wrote: >> I have not tried it, but if that is the case here, you may be able to use the >> normal R binary installer, but adjust the default install options when >> prompted, allowing you to customize the install location and other parameters, >> that may be suitable in the absence of Admin rights. >> >> Prior statements, not official, would suggest that R Core is not likely to >> assist in providing official options for useRs to circumvent OS security >> restrictions. > > Theres nothing nefarious here. It would allow people to use the R environment > without running an installer. If someone is a new user they may want to try > R out, and installers can be invasive as they commonly: > > - copy files to install dir > - copy files to profile dir > - set registry entries > - set environment variables > - set start menu entries > > and historically uninstallers have a bad record of reverting these changes. > should not put this burden upon new users or even having them resort to virtual > machine to avoid items above. having a ZIP file allows new users to run the > R environment, then if they like it perhaps they can run the installer going > forward. Are you familiar with Windows? As everything I am describing hasnt > changed in at least 20 years. > > I dont have a criticism of the R installer, I have not run tests to be able to > determine if its well behaved or not. Its the *not knowing* that is the issue. > With Windows, every installer could be perceived as a "black box".Hi, I am on macOS primarily, albeit, I have run both Windows and Linux routinely in years past. That being said, these days, I do run Windows 10 under a Parallels VM on macOS, as I have a single commercial application that I need to run for clients now and then, and it sadly only runs on a real Windows install (e.g. not with Wine). To your points: The R for Windows FAQ does provide some information on installing R as a non-Admin: https://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rw-FAQ.html#How-do-I-install-R-for-Windows_003f as well as Registry change related information: https://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rw-FAQ.html#Does-R-use-the-Registry_003f There is also information on running from external media: https://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rw-FAQ.html#Can-I-run-R-from-a-CD-or-USB-drive_003f and uninstalling: https://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rw-FAQ.html#How-do-I-UNinstall-R_003f In addition, the R-Admin manual provides information on the Inno Setup installer: https://cran.r-project.org/doc/manuals/r-release/R-admin.html#Building-the-Inno-Setup-installer https://cran.r-project.org/doc/manuals/r-release/R-admin.html#The-Inno-Setup-installer which leads you to: http://jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php and shows that Inno Setup is, like R, fully open source, hence reviewable and not a black box, any more than R itself is. That should not be a surprise... While I understand the use case you describe, it is, as I noted initially, up to R Core to be willing to provide an official release of a ZIP based installation. Unless you can make the case to them to expend the finite resources that they have to support this as part of each version release process, in light of the prior discussions, it is not clear that this appears to be a priority. Again, I do not speak for them. Otherwise, it falls to the community to volunteer to engage in that activity and fulfill the need. Regards, Marc
On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 5:40 PM Steven Penny <svnpenn at gmail.com> wrote:> > Theres nothing nefarious here. It would allow people to use the R environment > without running an installer. If someone is a new user they may want to try > R out, and installers can be invasive as they commonly: > > - copy files to install dir > - copy files to profile dir > - set registry entries > - set environment variables > - set start menu entries > > and historically uninstallers have a bad record of reverting these changes. > should not put this burden upon new users or even having them resort to virtual > machine to avoid items above. having a ZIP file allows new users to run the > R environment, then if they like it perhaps they can run the installer going > forward.This is a valid suggestion, but probably impossible to do reliably. Most installers (the R one is completely open source btw) perform those steps for a reason. It is great if software can be installed simply by extracting a zip file somewhere, but if this is what you desire, you're using the wrong operating system. We only offer official installation options that work 100% reliably and I don't think this can be accomplished with a zip file. For example a zip file won't be able to set the installation location in the registry, and hence other software such as RStudio won't be able to find the R installation. Also a zip installation might mix up package libraries from different R versions (which is bad), or users might expect they can upgrade R by overwriting their installation with a new zip (also bad). Hence I'm afraid offering such alternative installation options would open a new can of worms with bug reports from Windows users with broken installations, or packages that don't work as expected. As for alternatives, 'rportable' and 'innoextract' have already been mentioned if you really just want to dump the files from the installer, if that works for you. Another popular option to install (any) Windows software without manually running installers is using chocolatey, for example: choco install miktex choco install r.project This will still indirectly use official installers, but the installers have been verified as "safe" by external folks and the installation is completely automated. Perhaps that's another compromise you could live with.