> On 18 May 2017, at 13:47 , Joris Meys <jorismeys at gmail.com> wrote: > > Correction: Also dlt uses the default timezone, but POSIXlt is not recalculated whereas POSIXct is. Reason for that is the different way values are stored (hours, minutes, seconds as opposed to minutes from origin, as explained in my previous mail) >I would suspect that there is something more subtle going on, New Zealand time is 10, 11, or 12 hours from Central European, depending on time of year (10 in our Summer, 12 in theirs and 11 during the overlap at both ends, if you must know), and we are talking a 1 hour difference. However DST transitions were both in March/April, so that's not it. Maybe a POSIX[lc]t expert can comment? -pd> CHeers > Joris > > On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Joris Meys <jorismeys at gmail.com> wrote: > This has to do with your own timezone. If I run that code on my computer, both formats are correct. If I do this after > > Sys.setenv(TZ = "UTC") > > Then: > > > cbind(format(dlt), format(dct)) > [,1] [,2] > [1,] "2016-12-06 21:45:41" "2016-12-06 20:45:41" > [2,] "2016-12-06 21:45:42" "2016-12-06 20:45:42" > > The reason for that, is that dlt has a timezone set, but dct doesn't. To be correct, it only takes the first value "", which indicates "Use the default timezone of the locale". > > > attr(dlt, "tzone") > [1] "" "CET" "CEST" > > attr(dct, "tzone") > [1] "" > > The thing is, in POSIXlt the timezone attribute is stored together with the actual values for hour, minute etc. in list format. Changing the timezone doesn't change those values, but it will change the time itself: > > > Sys.unsetenv("TZ") > > dlt2 <- dlt > > attr(dlt2,"tzone") <- "UTC" > > dlt2 > [1] "2016-12-06 21:45:41 UTC" "2016-12-06 21:45:42 UTC" > [3] "2016-12-06 21:45:43 UTC" "2016-12-06 21:45:44 UTC" > > in POSIXct the value doesn't change either, just the attribute. But this value is the number of seconds since the origin. So the time itself doesn't change, but you'll see a different hour. > > > dct > [1] "2016-12-06 21:45:41 CET" "2016-12-06 21:45:42 CET" > ... > > attr(dct,"tzone") <- "UTC" > > dct > [1] "2016-12-06 20:45:41 UTC" "2016-12-06 20:45:42 UTC" > [3] "2016-12-06 20:45:43 UTC" "2016-12-06 20:45:44 UTC" > > So what you see, is simply the result of your timezone settings on your computer. > > Cheers > Joris > > On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:19 PM, peter dalgaard <pdalgd at gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 18 May 2017, at 11:00 , Patrick Connolly <p_connolly at slingshot.co.nz> wrote: > > > > On Wed, 17-May-2017 at 01:21PM +0200, Peter Dalgaard wrote: > > > > |> > > |> Anyways, you might want to > > |> > > |> a) move the discussion to R-devel > > |> b) include your platform (hardware, OS) and time zone info > > > > System: Host: MTA-V1-427894 Kernel: 3.19.0-32-generic x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 4.8.2) > > Desktop: KDE Plasma 4.14.2 (Qt 4.8.6) Distro: Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa > > I suppose that'll do... > > > > Time zone: NZST > > > > > > > |> c) run the offending code lines "by hand" and show us the values of format(dlt) and format(dct) so we can see what the problem is, something like > > |> > > |> dlt <- structure( > > |> list(sec = 52, min = 59L, hour = 18L, mday = 6L, mon = 11L, year = 116L, > > |> wday = 2L, yday = 340L, isdst = 0L, zone = "CET", gmtoff = 3600L), > > |> class = c("POSIXlt", "POSIXt"), tzone = c("", "CET", "CEST")) > > |> dlt$sec <- 10000 + 1:10 > > |> dct <- as.POSIXct(dlt) > > |> cbind(format(dlt), format(dct)) > > > >> cbind(format(dlt), format(dct)) > > [,1] [,2] > > [1,] "2016-12-06 21:45:41" "2016-12-06 22:45:41" > > [2,] "2016-12-06 21:45:42" "2016-12-06 22:45:42" > > [3,] "2016-12-06 21:45:43" "2016-12-06 22:45:43" > > [4,] "2016-12-06 21:45:44" "2016-12-06 22:45:44" > > [5,] "2016-12-06 21:45:45" "2016-12-06 22:45:45" > > [6,] "2016-12-06 21:45:46" "2016-12-06 22:45:46" > > [7,] "2016-12-06 21:45:47" "2016-12-06 22:45:47" > > [8,] "2016-12-06 21:45:48" "2016-12-06 22:45:48" > > [9,] "2016-12-06 21:45:49" "2016-12-06 22:45:49" > > [10,] "2016-12-06 21:45:50" "2016-12-06 22:45:50" > >> > > > > > So exactly 1 hour out of whack. Is there a Daylight Saving Times issue, perchance? > > -pd > > > > > > -- > > ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~. > > ___ Patrick Connolly > > {~._.~} Great minds discuss ideas > > _( Y )_ Average minds discuss events > > (:_~*~_:) Small minds discuss people > > (_)-(_) ..... Eleanor Roosevelt > > > > ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~. > > -- > Peter Dalgaard, Professor, > Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School > Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark > Phone: (+45)38153501 > Office: A 4.23 > Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel > > > > -- > Joris Meys > Statistical consultant > > Ghent University > Faculty of Bioscience Engineering > Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics > > tel : +32 (0)9 264 61 79 > Joris.Meys at Ugent.be > ------------------------------- > Disclaimer : http://helpdesk.ugent.be/e-maildisclaimer.php > > > > -- > Joris Meys > Statistical consultant > > Ghent University > Faculty of Bioscience Engineering > Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics > > tel : +32 (0)9 264 61 79 > Joris.Meys at Ugent.be > ------------------------------- > Disclaimer : http://helpdesk.ugent.be/e-maildisclaimer.php-- Peter Dalgaard, Professor, Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark Phone: (+45)38153501 Office: A 4.23 Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com
> On 18 May 2017, at 14:51, peter dalgaard <pdalgd at gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On 18 May 2017, at 13:47 , Joris Meys <jorismeys at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Correction: Also dlt uses the default timezone, but POSIXlt is not recalculated whereas POSIXct is. Reason for that is the different way values are stored (hours, minutes, seconds as opposed to minutes from origin, as explained in my previous mail) >> > > I would suspect that there is something more subtle going on, New Zealand time is 10, 11, or 12 hours from Central European, depending on time of year (10 in our Summer, 12 in theirs and 11 during the overlap at both ends, if you must know), and we are talking a 1 hour difference. > > However DST transitions were both in March/April, so that's not it. Maybe a POSIX[lc]t expert can comment?If I change the month from December to June then I see the same phenomenon in my Europe/Paris time zone. The issue seems to be that, for the date chosen for the test, Summer/daylight savings time is in force in NZ and some other parts of the southern hemisphere , but not in the northern hemisphere. Martyn> -pd > >> CHeers >> Joris >> >> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Joris Meys <jorismeys at gmail.com> wrote: >> This has to do with your own timezone. If I run that code on my computer, both formats are correct. If I do this after >> >> Sys.setenv(TZ = "UTC") >> >> Then: >> >>> cbind(format(dlt), format(dct)) >> [,1] [,2] >> [1,] "2016-12-06 21:45:41" "2016-12-06 20:45:41" >> [2,] "2016-12-06 21:45:42" "2016-12-06 20:45:42" >> >> The reason for that, is that dlt has a timezone set, but dct doesn't. To be correct, it only takes the first value "", which indicates "Use the default timezone of the locale". >> >>> attr(dlt, "tzone") >> [1] "" "CET" "CEST" >>> attr(dct, "tzone") >> [1] "" >> >> The thing is, in POSIXlt the timezone attribute is stored together with the actual values for hour, minute etc. in list format. Changing the timezone doesn't change those values, but it will change the time itself: >> >>> Sys.unsetenv("TZ") >>> dlt2 <- dlt >>> attr(dlt2,"tzone") <- "UTC" >>> dlt2 >> [1] "2016-12-06 21:45:41 UTC" "2016-12-06 21:45:42 UTC" >> [3] "2016-12-06 21:45:43 UTC" "2016-12-06 21:45:44 UTC" >> >> in POSIXct the value doesn't change either, just the attribute. But this value is the number of seconds since the origin. So the time itself doesn't change, but you'll see a different hour. >> >>> dct >> [1] "2016-12-06 21:45:41 CET" "2016-12-06 21:45:42 CET" >> ... >>> attr(dct,"tzone") <- "UTC" >>> dct >> [1] "2016-12-06 20:45:41 UTC" "2016-12-06 20:45:42 UTC" >> [3] "2016-12-06 20:45:43 UTC" "2016-12-06 20:45:44 UTC" >> >> So what you see, is simply the result of your timezone settings on your computer. >> >> Cheers >> Joris >> >>> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:19 PM, peter dalgaard <pdalgd at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 18 May 2017, at 11:00 , Patrick Connolly <p_connolly at slingshot.co.nz> wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, 17-May-2017 at 01:21PM +0200, Peter Dalgaard wrote: >>> >>> |> >>> |> Anyways, you might want to >>> |> >>> |> a) move the discussion to R-devel >>> |> b) include your platform (hardware, OS) and time zone info >>> >>> System: Host: MTA-V1-427894 Kernel: 3.19.0-32-generic x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 4.8.2) >>> Desktop: KDE Plasma 4.14.2 (Qt 4.8.6) Distro: Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa >> >> I suppose that'll do... >> >> >>> Time zone: NZST >> >> >> >>> >>> |> c) run the offending code lines "by hand" and show us the values of format(dlt) and format(dct) so we can see what the problem is, something like >>> |> >>> |> dlt <- structure( >>> |> list(sec = 52, min = 59L, hour = 18L, mday = 6L, mon = 11L, year = 116L, >>> |> wday = 2L, yday = 340L, isdst = 0L, zone = "CET", gmtoff = 3600L), >>> |> class = c("POSIXlt", "POSIXt"), tzone = c("", "CET", "CEST")) >>> |> dlt$sec <- 10000 + 1:10 >>> |> dct <- as.POSIXct(dlt) >>> |> cbind(format(dlt), format(dct)) >>> >>>> cbind(format(dlt), format(dct)) >>> [,1] [,2] >>> [1,] "2016-12-06 21:45:41" "2016-12-06 22:45:41" >>> [2,] "2016-12-06 21:45:42" "2016-12-06 22:45:42" >>> [3,] "2016-12-06 21:45:43" "2016-12-06 22:45:43" >>> [4,] "2016-12-06 21:45:44" "2016-12-06 22:45:44" >>> [5,] "2016-12-06 21:45:45" "2016-12-06 22:45:45" >>> [6,] "2016-12-06 21:45:46" "2016-12-06 22:45:46" >>> [7,] "2016-12-06 21:45:47" "2016-12-06 22:45:47" >>> [8,] "2016-12-06 21:45:48" "2016-12-06 22:45:48" >>> [9,] "2016-12-06 21:45:49" "2016-12-06 22:45:49" >>> [10,] "2016-12-06 21:45:50" "2016-12-06 22:45:50" >>>> >>> >> >> >> So exactly 1 hour out of whack. Is there a Daylight Saving Times issue, perchance? >> >> -pd >> >> >>> >>> -- >>> ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~. >>> ___ Patrick Connolly >>> {~._.~} Great minds discuss ideas >>> _( Y )_ Average minds discuss events >>> (:_~*~_:) Small minds discuss people >>> (_)-(_) ..... Eleanor Roosevelt >>> >>> ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~. >> >> -- >> Peter Dalgaard, Professor, >> Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School >> Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark >> Phone: (+45)38153501 >> Office: A 4.23 >> Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-devel at r-project.org mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel >> >> >> >> -- >> Joris Meys >> Statistical consultant >> >> Ghent University >> Faculty of Bioscience Engineering >> Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics >> >> tel : +32 (0)9 264 61 79 >> Joris.Meys at Ugent.be >> ------------------------------- >> Disclaimer : http://helpdesk.ugent.be/e-maildisclaimer.php >> >> >> >> -- >> Joris Meys >> Statistical consultant >> >> Ghent University >> Faculty of Bioscience Engineering >> Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics >> >> tel : +32 (0)9 264 61 79 >> Joris.Meys at Ugent.be >> ------------------------------- >> Disclaimer : http://helpdesk.ugent.be/e-maildisclaimer.php > > -- > Peter Dalgaard, Professor, > Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School > Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark > Phone: (+45)38153501 > Office: A 4.23 > Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel----------------------------------------------------------------------- This message and its attachments are strictly confidenti...{{dropped:8}}
> On 18 May 2017, at 14:58 , Martyn Plummer <plummerM at iarc.fr> wrote: > > > >> On 18 May 2017, at 14:51, peter dalgaard <pdalgd at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> On 18 May 2017, at 13:47 , Joris Meys <jorismeys at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Correction: Also dlt uses the default timezone, but POSIXlt is not recalculated whereas POSIXct is. Reason for that is the different way values are stored (hours, minutes, seconds as opposed to minutes from origin, as explained in my previous mail) >>> >> >> I would suspect that there is something more subtle going on, New Zealand time is 10, 11, or 12 hours from Central European, depending on time of year (10 in our Summer, 12 in theirs and 11 during the overlap at both ends, if you must know), and we are talking a 1 hour difference. >> >> However DST transitions were both in March/April, so that's not it. Maybe a POSIX[lc]t expert can comment? > > If I change the month from December to June then I see the same phenomenon in my Europe/Paris time zone. The issue seems to be that, for the date chosen for the test, Summer/daylight savings time is in force in NZ and some other parts of the southern hemisphere , but not in the northern hemisphere. >Of course! I overlooked that the date in the test is the issue, not the current date. (Let's blame that on the fact that Summer seems to have finally arrived in Copenhagen...) "svn praise" claims this test is due to Martin Maechler in r71742, so maybe he knows how to fix it. (I wonder if he just used the current date at the time, or actually thought that there would be no DST issues in December ;-) ) -pd> Martyn > >> -pd >> >>> CHeers >>> Joris >>> >>> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Joris Meys <jorismeys at gmail.com> wrote: >>> This has to do with your own timezone. If I run that code on my computer, both formats are correct. If I do this after >>> >>> Sys.setenv(TZ = "UTC") >>> >>> Then: >>> >>>> cbind(format(dlt), format(dct)) >>> [,1] [,2] >>> [1,] "2016-12-06 21:45:41" "2016-12-06 20:45:41" >>> [2,] "2016-12-06 21:45:42" "2016-12-06 20:45:42" >>> >>> The reason for that, is that dlt has a timezone set, but dct doesn't. To be correct, it only takes the first value "", which indicates "Use the default timezone of the locale". >>> >>>> attr(dlt, "tzone") >>> [1] "" "CET" "CEST" >>>> attr(dct, "tzone") >>> [1] "" >>> >>> The thing is, in POSIXlt the timezone attribute is stored together with the actual values for hour, minute etc. in list format. Changing the timezone doesn't change those values, but it will change the time itself: >>> >>>> Sys.unsetenv("TZ") >>>> dlt2 <- dlt >>>> attr(dlt2,"tzone") <- "UTC" >>>> dlt2 >>> [1] "2016-12-06 21:45:41 UTC" "2016-12-06 21:45:42 UTC" >>> [3] "2016-12-06 21:45:43 UTC" "2016-12-06 21:45:44 UTC" >>> >>> in POSIXct the value doesn't change either, just the attribute. But this value is the number of seconds since the origin. So the time itself doesn't change, but you'll see a different hour. >>> >>>> dct >>> [1] "2016-12-06 21:45:41 CET" "2016-12-06 21:45:42 CET" >>> ... >>>> attr(dct,"tzone") <- "UTC" >>>> dct >>> [1] "2016-12-06 20:45:41 UTC" "2016-12-06 20:45:42 UTC" >>> [3] "2016-12-06 20:45:43 UTC" "2016-12-06 20:45:44 UTC" >>> >>> So what you see, is simply the result of your timezone settings on your computer. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Joris >>> >>>> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:19 PM, peter dalgaard <pdalgd at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 18 May 2017, at 11:00 , Patrick Connolly <p_connolly at slingshot.co.nz> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, 17-May-2017 at 01:21PM +0200, Peter Dalgaard wrote: >>>> >>>> |> >>>> |> Anyways, you might want to >>>> |> >>>> |> a) move the discussion to R-devel >>>> |> b) include your platform (hardware, OS) and time zone info >>>> >>>> System: Host: MTA-V1-427894 Kernel: 3.19.0-32-generic x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 4.8.2) >>>> Desktop: KDE Plasma 4.14.2 (Qt 4.8.6) Distro: Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa >>> >>> I suppose that'll do... >>> >>> >>>> Time zone: NZST >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> |> c) run the offending code lines "by hand" and show us the values of format(dlt) and format(dct) so we can see what the problem is, something like >>>> |> >>>> |> dlt <- structure( >>>> |> list(sec = 52, min = 59L, hour = 18L, mday = 6L, mon = 11L, year = 116L, >>>> |> wday = 2L, yday = 340L, isdst = 0L, zone = "CET", gmtoff = 3600L), >>>> |> class = c("POSIXlt", "POSIXt"), tzone = c("", "CET", "CEST")) >>>> |> dlt$sec <- 10000 + 1:10 >>>> |> dct <- as.POSIXct(dlt) >>>> |> cbind(format(dlt), format(dct)) >>>> >>>>> cbind(format(dlt), format(dct)) >>>> [,1] [,2] >>>> [1,] "2016-12-06 21:45:41" "2016-12-06 22:45:41" >>>> [2,] "2016-12-06 21:45:42" "2016-12-06 22:45:42" >>>> [3,] "2016-12-06 21:45:43" "2016-12-06 22:45:43" >>>> [4,] "2016-12-06 21:45:44" "2016-12-06 22:45:44" >>>> [5,] "2016-12-06 21:45:45" "2016-12-06 22:45:45" >>>> [6,] "2016-12-06 21:45:46" "2016-12-06 22:45:46" >>>> [7,] "2016-12-06 21:45:47" "2016-12-06 22:45:47" >>>> [8,] "2016-12-06 21:45:48" "2016-12-06 22:45:48" >>>> [9,] "2016-12-06 21:45:49" "2016-12-06 22:45:49" >>>> [10,] "2016-12-06 21:45:50" "2016-12-06 22:45:50" >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> So exactly 1 hour out of whack. Is there a Daylight Saving Times issue, perchance? >>> >>> -pd >>> >>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~. >>>> ___ Patrick Connolly >>>> {~._.~} Great minds discuss ideas >>>> _( Y )_ Average minds discuss events >>>> (:_~*~_:) Small minds discuss people >>>> (_)-(_) ..... Eleanor Roosevelt >>>> >>>> ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~. >>> >>> -- >>> Peter Dalgaard, Professor, >>> Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School >>> Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark >>> Phone: (+45)38153501 >>> Office: A 4.23 >>> Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> R-devel at r-project.org mailing list >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joris Meys >>> Statistical consultant >>> >>> Ghent University >>> Faculty of Bioscience Engineering >>> Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics >>> >>> tel : +32 (0)9 264 61 79 >>> Joris.Meys at Ugent.be >>> ------------------------------- >>> Disclaimer : http://helpdesk.ugent.be/e-maildisclaimer.php >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Joris Meys >>> Statistical consultant >>> >>> Ghent University >>> Faculty of Bioscience Engineering >>> Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics >>> >>> tel : +32 (0)9 264 61 79 >>> Joris.Meys at Ugent.be >>> ------------------------------- >>> Disclaimer : http://helpdesk.ugent.be/e-maildisclaimer.php >> >> -- >> Peter Dalgaard, Professor, >> Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School >> Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark >> Phone: (+45)38153501 >> Office: A 4.23 >> Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-devel at r-project.org mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message and its attachments are strictly confiden...{{dropped:25}}