Ethan
2004-Aug-06 14:23 UTC
[icecast] IceCast Questions.... ("id3 tags, mp3, Ogg, etc)
Hello, I'm a long time user of Icecast. We currently run 12 streams on Icecast 1.x (Mp3). I plan to expand this to 20 streems soon. They are all low bitrate community service. Recently some friends and myself came across the thought of actually generating our own content. Music, talk, etc. I've been running the ideas of the automation setup that would be required to do such a thing. I used to have a low power FM station (until the FCC said stop) so I have some knowldge of doing real audio. Plus someone involved on the project has commercial station experience. Here are some of the issues I am trying to contemplate, and how to solve them with Icecast: First: Ogg/Vorbis. I've always avoided it because it is still non standard. I know the mp3 capable Icecast is depreciated. Is Ogg/Vorbis supported in Windows Media Player 7-8 or newer? By this, I mean either it immediately works or automatically downloads the codec. Most internet users won't ever bother to manually download and install codecs. I realize the later Winamp would support it. RealPlayer? The Apple QuickTime player? Second: Trying to cut back and forth between local playlists of MP3s, local live content and remote fed content seems like a challenge. My current thought is to have one system that plays audio that is linked to one or more computers that encode the audio. This way when switching between local content and remote content, the stream isn't interrupted and the listeners aren't dumped? But then comes the issue of the id3 tags. Is there any ways to trigger the darkice encoder to "update" the text on the player on the fly? If I had 1 icecast server acting as a relay, connecting to a 2nd one, could I switch between "2nd ones" and not interrupt the listener? OOOOOO Wait. Maybe if we could trick it into hitting a "file" in the playlist that is being written real time, that could work..... <p>Anyone have experience trying to push Icecast to do all of this? <p><p><p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Michael Smith
2004-Aug-06 14:23 UTC
[icecast] IceCast Questions.... ("id3 tags, mp3, Ogg, etc)
On Friday 18 July 2003 11:16, Ethan wrote:> Hello, I'm a long time user of Icecast. We currently run 12 streams on > Icecast 1.x (Mp3). I plan to expand this to 20 streems soon. They are all > low bitrate community service. > > Recently some friends and myself came across the thought of actually > generating our own content. Music, talk, etc. > > I've been running the ideas of the automation setup that would be required > to do such a thing. I used to have a low power FM station (until the FCC > said stop) so I have some knowldge of doing real audio. Plus someone > involved on the project has commercial station experience. > > Here are some of the issues I am trying to contemplate, and how to solve > them with Icecast: > > First: > > Ogg/Vorbis. I've always avoided it because it is still non standard. I > know the mp3 capable Icecast is depreciated. Is Ogg/Vorbis supported in > Windows Media Player 7-8 or newer? By this, I mean either it immediately > works or automatically downloads the codec. Most internet users won't ever > bother to manually download and install codecs. I realize the later Winamp > would support it. RealPlayer? The Apple QuickTime player?Icecast2 is fully mp3 capable as well, calling 1.x "the mp3 capable icecast" indicates you didn't realise that. It also supports other (better) formats as well, of course... By the way, you were looking for the word "deprecated", not "depreciated" (which is a real word, but means something entirely different). So anyway, you can use mp3 AND vorbis simultaneously with icecast2. vorbis is supported in WMP by external plugins - they're not built in, and not auto-downloaded. There is a real plugin, it will soon (but not yet, afaik) be available from the auto-download servers. iTunes doesn't support it. Most of the more commonly used players have support (though how good the support is varies). The main lack is iTunes - many mac users use it, and there's no support.> > Second: > > Trying to cut back and forth between local playlists of MP3s, local live > content and remote fed content seems like a challenge. My current thought > is to have one system that plays audio that is linked to one or more > computers that encode the audio. This way when switching between local > content and remote content, the stream isn't interrupted and the listeners > aren't dumped?That's one approach that requires little support from the software, and should work fine. More infrastructure neccesary, obviously.> > But then comes the issue of the id3 tags. Is there any ways to trigger the > darkice encoder to "update" the text on the player on the fly?This is supported by icecast (it doesn't use id3 tags for this, but most of the source encoders get the metadata from id3 tags originally), I'm not sure about darkice. It's pretty easy to add this sort of thing, all the hard bits here are done in icecast. <p>>> If I had 1 icecast server acting as a relay, connecting to a 2nd one, > could I switch between "2nd ones" and not interrupt the listener?Not precisely. What you can do (with icecast2) is: server1: /relay-mount1 <---- server2 : /relay-mount2 <----- server3 In this setup, you might dynamically add server3/relay-mount2, as your "new 2nd one". Then, you can dynamically switch users from /relay-mount1 to /relay-mount2, without interrupting the listeners. Then you can drop server2/relay-mount1. The above is not well tested, however, and it may interact badly with metadata support. If so, this should be fixed.> > OOOOOO > > Wait. Maybe if we could trick it into hitting a "file" in the playlist > that is being written real time, that could work.....That may also work, depending on your source program (I haven't used darkice, I'm not sure of its exact capabilities).> > > Anyone have experience trying to push Icecast to do all of this?Not on live systems, but I've done similar things on internal tests. Mike --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Ross Levis
2004-Aug-06 14:23 UTC
[icecast] IceCast Questions.... ("id3 tags, mp3, Ogg, etc)
Ethan wrote:> Trying to cut back and forth between local playlists of MP3s, local live > content and remote fed content seems like a challenge. My current thought > is to have one system that plays audio that is linked to one or more > computers that encode the audio.That is the proper way to do it. Keep the audio production separate to the broadcast. The challenge will be updating the playing now details. It should be possible but others will need to help you out with that. To plug my own radio automation/live assist software, StationPlaylist Studio (Windows only) can output the current playing file to a text file in any format you like (text, xml, html) which could be read by some process on the PC encoding the stream. Regards, Ross Levis http://www.stationplaylist.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 09:55:04AM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote:> Please speak to Ralph Giles <giles@xiph.org> about obtaining commit > access to CVS. We should check in your debian/ dir into the official > tree and that way we can be sure to sync releases. Also people using CVS > snapshots will be able to build their own debs.Well... Thanks! I've been maintaining my own Subversion repository for the packaging stuff, but this would certainly make things easier for bleeding-edge users, and release synchronization is definitely a good thing. I've sent Ralph a quick message.> Are you planning on packaging ices 0.3 as well?I had not previously, because I don't personally have any need for MP3 streaming, since Ogg Vorbis is working so well. :) I've sent a quick note to a Debian developer who had expressed interest in the past; if he is no longer interested, I'll make up some packages myself. Thanks again, - Keegan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: part Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/attachments/20030717/41aef918/part.pgp
On Monday, 04 August 2003 at 10:40, Keegan Quinn wrote:> On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 04:53:46PM -0700, Keegan Quinn wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 09:55:04AM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: > > > Are you planning on packaging ices 0.3 as well? > > > > I had not previously, because I don't personally have any need for MP3 > > streaming, since Ogg Vorbis is working so well. :) I've sent a quick > > note to a Debian developer who had expressed interest in the past; if he > > is no longer interested, I'll make up some packages myself. > > I've spoken with the other developer, Emmanuel le Chevoir, and he is still > interested, but has even less free time than myself. > > We've also briefly discussed some potential legal issues with the > distribution of ices0 binaries in Debian; we cannot distribute LAME or > liblame, of course, which I believe ices0 depends on, for MP3 encoding. > > Would it be possible, or would it make sense, to distribute ices0 without > LAME? Emmanuel told me that the icecast-client currently in Debian > (for the old icecast 1) manages to stream MP3s without re-encoding them, > so I am curious as to whether this might be a reasonable approach for > ices0 as well.ices0 works well without lame - it just can't transcode or reencode. It's still a huge improvement over shout. -b --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 04:53:46PM -0700, Keegan Quinn wrote:> On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 09:55:04AM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: > > Are you planning on packaging ices 0.3 as well? > > I had not previously, because I don't personally have any need for MP3 > streaming, since Ogg Vorbis is working so well. :) I've sent a quick > note to a Debian developer who had expressed interest in the past; if he > is no longer interested, I'll make up some packages myself.I've spoken with the other developer, Emmanuel le Chevoir, and he is still interested, but has even less free time than myself. We've also briefly discussed some potential legal issues with the distribution of ices0 binaries in Debian; we cannot distribute LAME or liblame, of course, which I believe ices0 depends on, for MP3 encoding. Would it be possible, or would it make sense, to distribute ices0 without LAME? Emmanuel told me that the icecast-client currently in Debian (for the old icecast 1) manages to stream MP3s without re-encoding them, so I am curious as to whether this might be a reasonable approach for ices0 as well. On the other hand, the confusion of distributing a crippled ices0 might be more trouble than it's worth. I'm interested to hear ideas and thoughts on this matter. Thanks, - Keegan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: part Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/attachments/20030804/7ae9ee26/part.pgp