Shorewall announce - Jul 2003 - Sanity, Manners and Shorewall Support

Hello Everyone,

This morning I received a personal email from a recent poster asking
"Why is Mr. Eastep so mean?". The post went on to explain that I had
responded abruptly to the person''s request for help and asked why I
wasn''t more helpful to people attempting to understand something new.

Good question.

Over the last nine months, I have been struggling to deal with an
ever-expanding set of problems in my personal and professional life:
death of family members, failing health of other family members, failing
health and eventual death of a much loved pet, my own health problems,
and a new job which presents me with a fresh set of demands each day.
Given this set of circumstances, I''m afraid that I sometimes regard a
Shorewall support request as just one more $PROFANITY problem that
someone expects me to solve and often my manners fail me. 

So what to do...

I''m going to try simply letting requests go unanswered until I have
sufficient time to read each post carefully and deal with it properly.
This may increase the response time but a delayed polite response is
definitely preferable to a quick rude one.

And of course all of you nice folks on the list are certainly welcome to
help when you see a question that you can answer.

-Tom
-- 
Tom Eastep    \ Shorewall - iptables made easy
Shoreline,     \ http://shorewall.net
Washington USA  \ teastep@shorewall.net

Hi Tom,

I don?t know if it helps but: YOU ARE NOT MEAN!!!

You get to the point very quickly and I wish I could see the things so
clear as you do (would save me a lot of time ;-))) !

I admire all you work and the enormous amount of time you spend on it.
By the way: When do you sleep....


Sascha

--------------------------------------------------------
Sascha Knific           K Systems & Design
Tel. +49-8151-773260    Wittelsbacherstr. 6a
Fax. +49-8151-773262    82319 Starnberg, Germany
Leo  +49-8151-773261    WGS84: N57?59''52.4"
E11?20''34.3"
knific@k-sysdes.net     http://www.k-sysdes.net


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: shorewall-users-bounces+knific=k-sysdes.net@lists.shorewall.net
[mailto:shorewall-users-bounces+knific=k-sysdes.net@lists.shorewall.net]
Im Auftrag von Tom Eastep
Gesendet: Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 16:57
An: Shorewall Users; Shorewall Announcements
Betreff: [Shorewall-users] Sanity, Manners and Shorewall Support


Hello Everyone,

This morning I received a personal email from a recent poster asking
"Why is Mr. Eastep so mean?". The post went on to explain that I had
responded abruptly to the person''s request for help and asked why I
wasn''t more helpful to people attempting to understand something new.

Good question.

Over the last nine months, I have been struggling to deal with an
ever-expanding set of problems in my personal and professional life:
death of family members, failing health of other family members, failing
health and eventual death of a much loved pet, my own health problems,
and a new job which presents me with a fresh set of demands each day.
Given this set of circumstances, I''m afraid that I sometimes regard a
Shorewall support request as just one more $PROFANITY problem that
someone expects me to solve and often my manners fail me. 

So what to do...

I''m going to try simply letting requests go unanswered until I have
sufficient time to read each post carefully and deal with it properly.
This may increase the response time but a delayed polite response is
definitely preferable to a quick rude one.

And of course all of you nice folks on the list are certainly welcome to
help when you see a question that you can answer.

-Tom
-- 
Tom Eastep    \ Shorewall - iptables made easy
Shoreline,     \ http://shorewall.net
Washington USA  \ teastep@shorewall.net

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Tom,

I have some comments. To provide support for the wide variety of possible
configurations and permutations that people are going to attempt to
configure with Shorewall, is dang near impossible. This is especially true
when people (a) do not RTFM first, (b) look through the Troubleshooting
section or (c) submit the necessary information with their request for
assistance.

So, maybe you are a little short sometimes (you have way more patience than
most people) but, I think that the software and support that you provide is
great. I wish you great success in your new position and continued
recognition and success with Shorewall.

A grateful and sometimes brain-dead user,

Graeme
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> shorewall-users-bounces+g.boyle3=verizon.net@lists.shorewall.n
> et 
> [mailto:shorewall-users-bounces+g.boyle3=verizon.net@lists.sho
> rewall.net] On Behalf Of Tom Eastep
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:57 AM
> To: Shorewall Users; Shorewall Announcements
> Subject: [Shorewall-users] Sanity, Manners and Shorewall Support
> 
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> This morning I received a personal email from a recent poster 
> asking "Why is Mr. Eastep so mean?". The post went on to 
> explain that I had responded abruptly to the person''s request 
> for help and asked why I wasn''t more helpful to people 
> attempting to understand something new.
> 
> Good question.
> 
> Over the last nine months, I have been struggling to deal 
> with an ever-expanding set of problems in my personal and 
> professional life: death of family members, failing health of 
> other family members, failing health and eventual death of a 
> much loved pet, my own health problems, and a new job which 
> presents me with a fresh set of demands each day. Given this 
> set of circumstances, I''m afraid that I sometimes regard a 
> Shorewall support request as just one more $PROFANITY problem 
> that someone expects me to solve and often my manners fail me. 
> 
> So what to do...
> 
> I''m going to try simply letting requests go unanswered until 
> I have sufficient time to read each post carefully and deal 
> with it properly. This may increase the response time but a 
> delayed polite response is definitely preferable to a quick rude one.
> 
> And of course all of you nice folks on the list are certainly 
> welcome to help when you see a question that you can answer.
> 
> -Tom
> -- 
> Tom Eastep    \ Shorewall - iptables made easy
> Shoreline,     \ http://shorewall.net
> Washington USA  \ teastep@shorewall.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Shorewall-users mailing list
> Post: Shorewall-users@lists.shorewall.net
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
> http://lists.shorewall.net/mailman/listinfo/sh> orewall-users
> 
> Support: http://www.shorewall.net/support.htm
> 
> FAQ: http://www.shorewall.net/FAQ.htm
>

On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 08:48, Sascha Knific wrote:
>  When do you sleep....
When I''m at work :-)

-Tom
-- 
Tom Eastep    \ Shorewall - iptables made easy
Shoreline,     \ http://shorewall.net
Washington USA  \ teastep@shorewall.net

Tom Eastep wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> This morning I received a personal email from a recent poster asking
> "Why is Mr. Eastep so mean?". The post went on to explain that I
had
> responded abruptly to the person''s request for help and asked why
I
> wasn''t more helpful to people attempting to understand something
new.
> 
> Good question.
Hey Tom,

To be quite honest, if that person had bothered to read some of the
mailing list archives and seen how much effort you have put in answering
all of these questions which people, more or less, post to you
personally on the list that question would probably not have popped up
in the first place....
> Over the last nine months, I have been struggling to deal with an
> ever-expanding set of problems in my personal and professional life:
> death of family members, failing health of other family members, failing
> health and eventual death of a much loved pet, my own health problems,
> and a new job which presents me with a fresh set of demands each day.
> Given this set of circumstances, I''m afraid that I sometimes
regard a
> Shorewall support request as just one more $PROFANITY problem that
> someone expects me to solve and often my manners fail me.
> 
> So what to do...
and you''re not alone with those kind of problems, either, I''ve
had my
fair share the last 9 years, like you''ve been through, but I''m
very
amazed and do appreciate the enormous effort you''ve put into Shorewall
*despite* all of your difficulties and I happen to be one of your real
fans, right from the start, when you switched from Seawall to Shorewall. 
 
> I''m going to try simply letting requests go unanswered until I
have
> sufficient time to read each post carefully and deal with it properly.
> This may increase the response time but a delayed polite response is
> definitely preferable to a quick rude one.
 
> And of course all of you nice folks on the list are certainly welcome to
> help when you see a question that you can answer.
Hey, come on, that''s one of our real problems on the list! We never get
the chance, you''re just too darn quick!  :-)

Please take care of yourself, sir!

With best regards,
-- 
Patrick Benson
Stockholm, Sweden

On 15 Jul 2003 07:56:57 -0700, Tom Eastep <teastep@shorewall.net> wrote:
> I''m going to try simply letting requests go unanswered until I
have
> sufficient time to read each post carefully and deal with it properly.
> This may increase the response time but a delayed polite response is
> definitely preferable to a quick rude one.
I think that''s sensible Tom.  It might mean the slightly more
experienced
hands around here (I count myself one of those) get a chance to take a few 
of the questions.  I try to help but you''re often just too quick.

I think you should also leave it to us to point people towards the 
documentation or tell them how to provide proper diagnostics when 
necessary.

regards

Julian

A joke?  When do you have time for jokes?

-- 
Steve Herber	herber@thing.com		work: 206-221-7262
Security Engineer, UW Medicine, IT Services	home: 425-454-2399

On 15 Jul 2003, Tom Eastep wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 08:48, Sascha Knific wrote:
> >  When do you sleep....
> 
> When I''m at work :-)
> 
> -Tom
>

I would just like to add how pleasant it is to have a helpful, knowledgeable
person moderating these lists.  For too long I have lurked are lists that are
modded by people with god complexes (no names no pack drill but a certain UK
based firewall distro has to be the worst).  I have always found your advice
invaluable Tom, and you even have to follow up on it afterwards.  So thanks,
Tom.

Phil
--
Phil Foxton
+44 7966 336218


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Tom Eastep <teastep@shorewall.net>
To: Sascha Knific <knific@k-sysdes.net>
Cc: "''Shorewall Users''"
<shorewall-users@lists.shorewall.net>
Sent: 15 Jul 2003 09:20:53 -0700
Subject: Re: AW: [Shorewall-users] Sanity, Manners and Shorewall Support
> On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 08:48, Sascha Knific wrote:
> >  When do you sleep....
> 
> When I''m at work :-)
> 
> -Tom
> -- 
> Tom Eastep    \ Shorewall - iptables made easy
> Shoreline,     \ http://shorewall.net
> Washington USA  \ teastep@shorewall.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Shorewall-users mailing list
> Post: Shorewall-users@lists.shorewall.net
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
> http://lists.shorewall.net/mailman/listinfo/shorewall-users Support: 
> http://www.shorewall.net/support.htm FAQ: http://www.shorewall.net/FAQ.htm
------- End of Original Message -------

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 10:47, phil wrote:
> I would just like to add how pleasant it is to have a helpful,
knowledgeable
> person moderating these lists.  For too long I have lurked are lists that
are
> modded by people with god complexes (no names no pack drill but a certain
UK
> based firewall distro has to be the worst).  I have always found your
advice
> invaluable Tom, and you even have to follow up on it afterwards.  So
thanks, Tom.
> 
> Phil
I agree with Phil. BTW Phil, have you ever delt with the qmail mail
list? 

Talk about god complex.
-- 
AltGrendel <altgrendel@exit0.us>

Tom,

I know this is late but I''m one of those that puts off reading the 
mailing lists until I need to.  As such this one is a little late.

I have been one of the proud receivers of a "hey twit.. RTFM chapter
4"
and a "ooo.. that''s a good one."  As a person who''s
posted to the list
asking questions sometimes all one needs is a simple pointer of where to 
go look cause one over looked it in my busy day.  Let some of the more 
experienced folks such as myself and others help them out.  Your just 
too dang quick.  I had an email answer to both of my questions in under 
8 hours.

Don''t let folks who are impatient get to you.  Just hit that delete 
button unless you want to say something $FRIENDLY_FOUR_LETTER_WORD here 
or there.  They simply don''t deserve a response from you.  Sometimes 
you''ll be surprised to see just how much folks like me will stand up
and
say stuff it bub for you.

We appreciate the hard work you do and donate so those of us can focus 
on other things because your stuff works.

Thanks tom.

ian


Tom Eastep wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> This morning I received a personal email from a recent poster asking
> "Why is Mr. Eastep so mean?". The post went on to explain that I
had
> responded abruptly to the person''s request for help and asked why
I
> wasn''t more helpful to people attempting to understand something
new.
> 
> Good question.
> 
> Over the last nine months, I have been struggling to deal with an
> ever-expanding set of problems in my personal and professional life:
> death of family members, failing health of other family members, failing
> health and eventual death of a much loved pet, my own health problems,
> and a new job which presents me with a fresh set of demands each day.
> Given this set of circumstances, I''m afraid that I sometimes
regard a
> Shorewall support request as just one more $PROFANITY problem that
> someone expects me to solve and often my manners fail me. 
> 
> So what to do...
> 
> I''m going to try simply letting requests go unanswered until I
have
> sufficient time to read each post carefully and deal with it properly.
> This may increase the response time but a delayed polite response is
> definitely preferable to a quick rude one.
> 
> And of course all of you nice folks on the list are certainly welcome to
> help when you see a question that you can answer.
> 
> -Tom

I think this is definitely one of the best mailing list''s I''ve
ever been on. Very quick response
times which for me is out of the ordinary. Great firewall product and a great
web site and most of
all (Tom), the guy who goes above and beyond the call to help even the
news''t of noobs to linux an
firewalling. 
Anyone who can''t handle the tuff love approach shouldn''t be on
this list in my opinion. We''re all
expected to read and experiment as much as we can with shorewall before posting
to the list.
Granted some of us are new and (Blind) to the anwser thats usually right infront
of our faces
sometimes (I''m very guilty of this) :=), and might not like it when
someone doesn''t hold our hand
and makes us learn through doing. If your offended by that then you obviously
have a problem.

And remember, there''s only 1 Tom, and literally 1000''s of
Shorewall users. Not a plate that I''d
step to. So kudos to you Tom and the outstanding support that you freely give
everyone.

JBanks

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

I had a similar experience and was pleasantly suprised really.
I am also of the opinion that now I know shorewall a little better having
deployed it to around 10 or so different network situations, I feel
confident to offer support for a few areas. Perhaps Tom can just not worry
about the small stuff until it appears it is not getting answered? I am sure
there are other people also with more experience than me who can offer
support in different areas. Its the least we can do.

dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "ian" <iguy@ionsphere.org>
> go look cause one over looked it in my busy day.  Let some of the more
> experienced folks such as myself and others help them out.  Your just
> too dang quick.  I had an email answer to both of my questions in under
> 8 hours.

Joshua Banks wrote:
> Granted some of us are new and (Blind) to the anwser thats usually right
infront of our faces
> sometimes (I''m very guilty of this) :=)
You can be old and blind, as well. Like yesterday when I tried to figure
out why you didn''t have a MAC address in OUT= and forgot to realize
that
you were using ppp to the net, I bet Tom had a good laugh!   :-)  I''ve
been addicted to ethernet for too long.........


-- 
Patrick Benson
Stockholm, Sweden