Hi, Can anyone shed some light on this: My PC's are on a separate power circuit. Each PC has its own UPS. I have an old Honda generator. When the power goes out, I fire up the generator. However, the UPS's still run on battery. If I connect the PC directly to the socket and bypass the UPS, the PC works. I was told by a UPS supplier, that the power output from the generator was "dirty" hence the UPS's preferred to remain on battery power. Recently, the power went out and fired up the generator. Surprisingly, all UPS worked and accepted the generator power. This time the only difference was that we also powered off some halogen spotlights and some energy saving compact flourescent lighting from the generator. Can anyone shed some light on what happened? When I get a chance, I will try and repeat what happened and see the outcome... Regards Basheer Noorgat NMC EXQUISITE 23 Bauhinia Rd., Stanger, 4450, South Africa P.O.Box 2449, Stanger, 4450, South Africa Ph: (032) 551 3300 Fax: (032) 551 4414 Cell: 082 5510 227 Int. Code: +27 (32) Web Site: http://www.nmcexquisite.com Basheer Noorgat NMC EXQUISITE 23 Bauhinia Rd., Stanger, 4450, South Africa P.O.Box 2449, Stanger, 4450, South Africa Ph: (032) 551 3300 Fax: (032) 551 4414 Cell: 082 5510 227 Int. Code: +27 (32) Web Site: http://www.nmcexquisite.com
On Friday 01 September 2006 17:19, Basheer Noorgat wrote:> Recently, the power went out and fired up the generator. > Surprisingly, all UPS worked and accepted the generator power. > > This time the only difference was that we also powered off some > halogen spotlights and some energy saving compact flourescent > lighting from the generator. > > Can anyone shed some light on what happened?Quite possibly the extra load affected the generators output. You may be able to tune your UPS to accept crappier power, it depends on the brand/model. If the power IS that crappy then I hope you have a dual conversion UPS :) -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/nut-upsuser/attachments/20060901/35af34bd/attachment.pgp
Dan Mahoney, System Admin
2006-Sep-01 06:49 UTC
[Nut-upsuser] Slightly OT: Generators & UPS
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Basheer Noorgat wrote: Actually we've been where I work of a similar but different issue. Power goes out. UPS catches load. Generator spins up. UPSes see generator power and accept it, go back into standby. When the transfer switch kicks BACK (which is done WITHOUT a voltage drop as we are switching from good-power to good-power), the UPS sees it as a power LOSS situation and goes to battery, and subsequently dies. Our powercom rep says that we need to upgrade because of this. Has anyone else ever heard of an issue like this? Also, is there a better list for the discussion of general UPS-related issues? -Dan> Hi, > > Can anyone shed some light on this: > > My PC's are on a separate power circuit. Each PC has its own UPS. > > I have an old Honda generator. When the power goes out, I fire up the > generator. However, the UPS's still run on battery. If I connect the > PC directly to the socket and bypass the UPS, the PC works. > > I was told by a UPS supplier, that the power output from the > generator was "dirty" hence the UPS's preferred to remain on battery > power. > > Recently, the power went out and fired up the generator. > Surprisingly, all UPS worked and accepted the generator power. > > This time the only difference was that we also powered off some > halogen spotlights and some energy saving compact flourescent > lighting from the generator. > > Can anyone shed some light on what happened? > > When I get a chance, I will try and repeat what happened and see the > outcome... > > Regards > > > > > Basheer Noorgat > NMC EXQUISITE > 23 Bauhinia Rd., Stanger, 4450, South Africa > P.O.Box 2449, Stanger, 4450, South Africa > Ph: (032) 551 3300 Fax: (032) 551 4414 > Cell: 082 5510 227 Int. Code: +27 (32) > Web Site: http://www.nmcexquisite.com > Basheer Noorgat > NMC EXQUISITE > 23 Bauhinia Rd., Stanger, 4450, South Africa > P.O.Box 2449, Stanger, 4450, South Africa > Ph: (032) 551 3300 Fax: (032) 551 4414 > Cell: 082 5510 227 Int. Code: +27 (32) > Web Site: http://www.nmcexquisite.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nut-upsuser mailing list > Nut-upsuser@lists.alioth.debian.org > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser >-- "this is too stupid even for irc" -mtreal, EFnet #macintosh, 09/15/2K, 12:33 AM --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org ---------------------------
Basheer Noorgat wrote:> Can anyone shed some light on this: > > My PC's are on a separate power circuit. Each PC has its own UPS. > > I have an old Honda generator. When the power goes out, I fire up the > generator. However, the UPS's still run on battery. If I connect the > PC directly to the socket and bypass the UPS, the PC works. > > I was told by a UPS supplier, that the power output from the > generator was "dirty" hence the UPS's preferred to remain on battery > power. > > Recently, the power went out and fired up the generator. > Surprisingly, all UPS worked and accepted the generator power. > > This time the only difference was that we also powered off some > halogen spotlights and some energy saving compact flourescent > lighting from the generator. > > Can anyone shed some light on what happened? > > When I get a chance, I will try and repeat what happened and see the > outcome...How many watts is your generator? Most small ones only put out enough juice for a 15A circuit. Halogen lights normally pull a decent ammount of current.... Sounds like you need to figure out your load and see if your generator has enough power.
I think that you will find that the Halogen lights did the trick. The "dirty" part of the power often comes from the unloaded generator having fluctuations or overvoltage. Cheaper designs tend to have a higher unloaded voltage and often a deformed wave pattern until loaded with a resistive load. The Halogens fit that bill and helped smooth things out as well as slightly lower the voltage levels. As for the compact fluorescent lights, they can often introduce a lot of noise into the system. It will depend on the design if the ballast. Another approach that may solve your issue is to use a 1:1 transformer. These are often used as filters to help drop the noise level and can actually smooth out small spikes and dips in the power. You can often find these cheap from surplus suppliers. Unless the generator is rated for computer grade power, I would never recommend connecting directly to it with the PC. The chance of a spike is to great and no telling how much damage it could cause. If you know anyone that has an Oscilloscope that you could use, it would be a good way for you to see the condition of the power from the generator. I would even recommend looking at you main supply from time to time. I once found a loose connection on the power companies transformer by watching the scope. The voltage would shift about 1-2 volts and then shift back. They thought I was crazy until I caught the arching of the connection on video and played it back for them. Good luck. My $0.015 -----Original Message----- From: nut-upsuser-bounces@lists.alioth.debian.org [mailto:nut-upsuser-bounces@lists.alioth.debian.org] On Behalf Of Basheer Noorgat Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:52 AM To: nut-upsuser@lists.alioth.debian.org Subject: [Nut-upsuser] Slightly OT: Generators & UPS Hi, Can anyone shed some light on this: My PC's are on a separate power circuit. Each PC has its own UPS. I have an old Honda generator. When the power goes out, I fire up the generator. However, the UPS's still run on battery. If I connect the PC directly to the socket and bypass the UPS, the PC works. I was told by a UPS supplier, that the power output from the generator was "dirty" hence the UPS's preferred to remain on battery power. Recently, the power went out and fired up the generator. Surprisingly, all UPS worked and accepted the generator power. This time the only difference was that we also powered off some halogen spotlights and some energy saving compact flourescent lighting from the generator. Can anyone shed some light on what happened? When I get a chance, I will try and repeat what happened and see the outcome... Regards Basheer Noorgat NMC EXQUISITE 23 Bauhinia Rd., Stanger, 4450, South Africa P.O.Box 2449, Stanger, 4450, South Africa Ph: (032) 551 3300 Fax: (032) 551 4414 Cell: 082 5510 227 Int. Code: +27 (32) Web Site: http://www.nmcexquisite.com Basheer Noorgat NMC EXQUISITE 23 Bauhinia Rd., Stanger, 4450, South Africa P.O.Box 2449, Stanger, 4450, South Africa Ph: (032) 551 3300 Fax: (032) 551 4414 Cell: 082 5510 227 Int. Code: +27 (32) Web Site: http://www.nmcexquisite.com _______________________________________________ Nut-upsuser mailing list Nut-upsuser@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser
"Basheer Noorgat" wrote:> Hi, > > Can anyone shed some light on this: > > My PC's are on a separate power circuit. Each PC has its own UPS. > > I have an old Honda generator. When the power goes out, I fire up the > generator. However, the UPS's still run on battery. If I connect the > PC directly to the socket and bypass the UPS, the PC works. > > I was told by a UPS supplier, that the power output from the > generator was "dirty" hence the UPS's preferred to remain on battery > power. > > Recently, the power went out and fired up the generator. > Surprisingly, all UPS worked and accepted the generator power. > > This time the only difference was that we also powered off some > halogen spotlights and some energy saving compact flourescent > lighting from the generator. > > Can anyone shed some light on what happened? > > When I get a chance, I will try and repeat what happened and see the > outcome...I guess the Halogen lights are a straight resisitive load ? (ie no complex electronics in the back, although light bulbs somehow seem to get inductive ) however the fluorescent Do have a wedge of electronics on a PCB in back, & as you know starter capacitor in front etc. My guess is its the fluorescents being the dirty (noisy) load. You could confirm by using an oscilloscope (there are also more complex power measuring logger machines), borrow one & or its optionaly owning / accompanying owner / electrician & then simulate the power failure again. Thr traditional simple way mechanical way to iron out noise from a generator is to feed it into a motor witha big flywheel, & couple a generator to the flywheel.> > Regards > > > > > Basheer Noorgat > NMC EXQUISITE > 23 Bauhinia Rd., Stanger, 4450, South Africa > P.O.Box 2449, Stanger, 4450, South Africa > Ph: (032) 551 3300 Fax: (032) 551 4414 > Cell: 082 5510 227 Int. Code: +27 (32) > Web Site: http://www.nmcexquisite.com > Basheer Noorgat > NMC EXQUISITE > 23 Bauhinia Rd., Stanger, 4450, South Africa > P.O.Box 2449, Stanger, 4450, South Africa > Ph: (032) 551 3300 Fax: (032) 551 4414 > Cell: 082 5510 227 Int. Code: +27 (32) > Web Site: http://www.nmcexquisite.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nut-upsuser mailing list > Nut-upsuser@lists.alioth.debian.org > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser > >-- Julian Stacey. BSD Unix C Net Consultancy, Munich/Muenchen http://berklix.com Mail Ascii, not HTML. Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz.
Hi, I'm the original poster on the subject. Thanks for all the replies. A few more points. The generator outputs 7kw @ 220V. The total PC's supplied is about 9. I estimate power consumption to be 9 x 300w=2700w 4 halogens @ 400w each=1600w 10 Compact Flourescents @ 11w =110w Therefore total power=4410w Which leaves me with spare capacity of about 2590w (in theory). I think its the halogen lamps that is helping "smooth" out the power. Previously, when I ran the generator, I did not have the halogen lamps on, and the UPS failed to recharge. Regards Basheer Noorgat NMC EXQUISITE 23 Bauhinia Rd., Stanger, 4450, South Africa P.O.Box 2449, Stanger, 4450, South Africa Ph: (032) 551 3300 Fax: (032) 551 4414 Cell: 082 5510 227 Int. Code: +27 (32) Web Site: http://www.nmcexquisite.com