Sebastiaan Peters via llvm-dev
2018-Mar-16 18:15 UTC
[llvm-dev] [GSOC 2018] GNU Binutils replacement
Hello everyone, My name is Sebastiaan Peters, an undergrad student from The Netherlands. The project for creating drop-in replacements for GNU Binutils peaked my interest. It would make my day (or my summer) being able to contribute to such a project. Since I have no experience with llvm besides some basic usage of clang, the first thing I tried was to find out what llvm tools are out there. However the more I research the more questions I got. I would very grateful if somebody could answer some of the following questions: 1. Does this project apply to all llvm tools, or just those that have intersecting functionality with the existing GNU Binutils? For instance the llvm-assembler still provides the same functionality, but does will most likely not be a replacement for gnu-as considering the large amount of features it lacks (not being able to accept or target most architectures). 2. LLD already exists as a drop-in replacement for the GNU linker for compilers[0], would it be desirable if an cli wrapper would be made for this? 3. What happened to tools like llvm-objcopy and llvm-strip? Documentation is hard to find and are not included in the llvm tools documentation page[0]. 4. In the case of missing functionality between 2 tools, Is it the goal to patch up what is missing or to go on to the next tool? 5. Is there a list of preferred tools that should be prioritized? Sorry if there is said anything that is incorrect, trying to get a clear picture of the entire project was quite overwhelming. Kind Regards, Sebastiaan Peters [0] https://lld.llvm.org/ [1] https://llvm.org/docs/CommandGuide/index.html
Jake Ehrlich via llvm-dev
2018-Mar-19 18:49 UTC
[llvm-dev] [GSOC 2018] GNU Binutils replacement
Hi Sebastiaan, I'm not the creator of the this GSOC project but I might be able to help. I'm the author of llvm-objcopy, and the soon to be creator of the symlink llvm-strip to llvm-objcopy (which currently doesn't exist). The reason llvm-objcopy and llvm-strip don't have documentation pages is because I haven't written them yet; I'll get on that! 1. The goal is to work towards extending the existing interfaces so that the existing tools can be used as drop in replacements in more projects. Most tools that have GNU binutils equivalents have some GNU binutil CLI compatible interface. I think llvm-as could probably be extended slowly but surely to be a better more practical replacement for GNU as. 2. What do you mean? It's already cli compatible. 3. They exist and are still being worked on! I've just been lazy about documentation. llvm-objcopy is actually the least mature GNU binutils replacement and could use lots more work. 4. I'm not familiar enough with what people commonly use in bigger builds to say for sure what tools might be missing. In my team's experience llvm-objcopy was the last missing piece which is why I wrote it. If you find some projects that use a tool that is 100% missing, You could work on implementing a small subset of features needed for one of those projects. I think it's more likely that existing tools will need to be extended however. 5. Well I'm biased of course and would say llvm-objcopy. A better more unbiased answer would be to find a project that currently uses GNU binutils, build it using llvm instead of binutils, and see what fails/breaks. That way you don't go off and arbitrarily extend tool X with obscure feature Y that hardly anyone actually uses. I think Eric Christopher is the proposal and confirmed mentor and might have more to say. Best, Jake On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:15 AM Sebastiaan Peters via llvm-dev < llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> Hello everyone, > > My name is Sebastiaan Peters, an undergrad student from The Netherlands. > > The project for creating drop-in replacements for GNU Binutils peaked my > interest. It would make my day (or my summer) being able to contribute to > such a project. > > Since I have no experience with llvm besides some basic usage of clang, > the first thing I tried was to find out what llvm tools are out there. > However the more I research the more questions I got. > I would very grateful if somebody could answer some of the following > questions: > > 1. Does this project apply to all llvm tools, or just those that have > intersecting functionality with the existing GNU Binutils? > For instance the llvm-assembler still provides the same functionality, but > does will most likely not be a replacement for gnu-as considering the large > amount of features it lacks (not being able to accept or target most > architectures). > > 2. LLD already exists as a drop-in replacement for the GNU linker for > compilers[0], would it be desirable if an cli wrapper would be made for > this? > > 3. What happened to tools like llvm-objcopy and llvm-strip? > Documentation is hard to find and are not included in the llvm tools > documentation page[0]. > > 4. In the case of missing functionality between 2 tools, Is it the goal to > patch up what is missing or to go on to the next tool? > > 5. Is there a list of preferred tools that should be prioritized? > > Sorry if there is said anything that is incorrect, trying to get a clear > picture of the entire project was quite overwhelming. > > Kind Regards, > > Sebastiaan Peters > > [0] https://lld.llvm.org/ > [1] https://llvm.org/docs/CommandGuide/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20180319/42d184ea/attachment.html>
Friedman, Eli via llvm-dev
2018-Mar-19 19:24 UTC
[llvm-dev] [GSOC 2018] GNU Binutils replacement
On 3/19/2018 11:49 AM, Jake Ehrlich via llvm-dev wrote:> Hi Sebastiaan, > > I'm not the creator of the this GSOC project but I might be able to > help. I'm the author of llvm-objcopy, and the soon to be creator of > the symlink llvm-strip to llvm-objcopy (which currently doesn't > exist). The reason llvm-objcopy and llvm-strip don't have > documentation pages is because I haven't written them yet; I'll get on > that! > > 1. The goal is to work towards extending the existing interfaces so > that the existing tools can be used as drop in replacements in more > projects. Most tools that have GNU binutils equivalents have some GNU > binutil CLI compatible interface. I think llvm-as could probably be > extended slowly but surely to be a better more practical replacement > for GNU as.Is there a typo somewhere in there? "llvm-as" and "GNU as" are completely unrelated. -Eli -- Employee of Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum, a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project
Sebastiaan Peters via llvm-dev
2018-Mar-19 19:24 UTC
[llvm-dev] [GSOC 2018] GNU Binutils replacement
Hi Jake, Thank you for your reply! That would explain a lot. What are some ways in which llvm-object still could use work? Depending on how much work remains, maybe it would be an interesting GSOC project? Kind Regards, Sebastiaan Peters ________________________________ From: Jake Ehrlich <jakehehrlich at google.com> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 19:49 To: Sebastiaan Peters Cc: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] [GSOC 2018] GNU Binutils replacement Hi Sebastiaan, I'm not the creator of the this GSOC project but I might be able to help. I'm the author of llvm-objcopy, and the soon to be creator of the symlink llvm-strip to llvm-objcopy (which currently doesn't exist). The reason llvm-objcopy and llvm-strip don't have documentation pages is because I haven't written them yet; I'll get on that! 1. The goal is to work towards extending the existing interfaces so that the existing tools can be used as drop in replacements in more projects. Most tools that have GNU binutils equivalents have some GNU binutil CLI compatible interface. I think llvm-as could probably be extended slowly but surely to be a better more practical replacement for GNU as. 2. What do you mean? It's already cli compatible. 3. They exist and are still being worked on! I've just been lazy about documentation. llvm-objcopy is actually the least mature GNU binutils replacement and could use lots more work. 4. I'm not familiar enough with what people commonly use in bigger builds to say for sure what tools might be missing. In my team's experience llvm-objcopy was the last missing piece which is why I wrote it. If you find some projects that use a tool that is 100% missing, You could work on implementing a small subset of features needed for one of those projects. I think it's more likely that existing tools will need to be extended however. 5. Well I'm biased of course and would say llvm-objcopy. A better more unbiased answer would be to find a project that currently uses GNU binutils, build it using llvm instead of binutils, and see what fails/breaks. That way you don't go off and arbitrarily extend tool X with obscure feature Y that hardly anyone actually uses. I think Eric Christopher is the proposal and confirmed mentor and might have more to say. Best, Jake On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:15 AM Sebastiaan Peters via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org<mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote: Hello everyone, My name is Sebastiaan Peters, an undergrad student from The Netherlands. The project for creating drop-in replacements for GNU Binutils peaked my interest. It would make my day (or my summer) being able to contribute to such a project. Since I have no experience with llvm besides some basic usage of clang, the first thing I tried was to find out what llvm tools are out there. However the more I research the more questions I got. I would very grateful if somebody could answer some of the following questions: 1. Does this project apply to all llvm tools, or just those that have intersecting functionality with the existing GNU Binutils? For instance the llvm-assembler still provides the same functionality, but does will most likely not be a replacement for gnu-as considering the large amount of features it lacks (not being able to accept or target most architectures). 2. LLD already exists as a drop-in replacement for the GNU linker for compilers[0], would it be desirable if an cli wrapper would be made for this? 3. What happened to tools like llvm-objcopy and llvm-strip? Documentation is hard to find and are not included in the llvm tools documentation page[0]. 4. In the case of missing functionality between 2 tools, Is it the goal to patch up what is missing or to go on to the next tool? 5. Is there a list of preferred tools that should be prioritized? Sorry if there is said anything that is incorrect, trying to get a clear picture of the entire project was quite overwhelming. Kind Regards, Sebastiaan Peters [0] https://lld.llvm.org/ [1] https://llvm.org/docs/CommandGuide/index.html _______________________________________________ LLVM Developers mailing list llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org<mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20180319/8f168f80/attachment-0001.html>