freebsd stable - Mar 2014 - reason 23 why we've moved to linux

Hello,

On 3/18/14, 12:42 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
> /usr/ports# svn up
> Updating '.':
> Error validating server certificate for
'https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org:443':
>   - The certificate has an unknown error.
> Certificate information:
>   - Hostname: svnmir.ysv.FreeBSD.org
>   - Valid: from Jul 29 22:01:21 2013 GMT until Dec 13 22:01:21 2040 GMT
>   - Issuer: clusteradm, FreeBSD.org, CA, US(clusteradm at FreeBSD.org)
>   - Fingerprint:
1C:BD:85:95:11:9F:EB:75:A5:4B:C8:A3:FE:08:E4:02:73:06:1E:61
> (R)eject or accept (t)emporarily? t
> Error validating server certificate for
'https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org:443':
>   - The certificate has an unknown error.
> Certificate information:
>   - Hostname: svnmir.ysv.FreeBSD.org
>   - Valid: from Jul 29 22:01:21 2013 GMT until Dec 13 22:01:21 2040 GMT
>   - Issuer: clusteradm, FreeBSD.org, CA, US(clusteradm at FreeBSD.org)
>   - Fingerprint:
1C:BD:85:95:11:9F:EB:75:A5:4B:C8:A3:FE:08:E4:02:73:06:1E:61
> (R)eject or accept (t)emporarily? t
> Error validating server certificate for
'https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org:443':
>   - The certificate has an unknown error.
> Certificate information:
>   - Hostname: svnmir.ysv.FreeBSD.org
>   - Valid: from Jul 29 22:01:21 2013 GMT until Dec 13 22:01:21 2040 GMT
>   - Issuer: clusteradm, FreeBSD.org, CA, US(clusteradm at FreeBSD.org)
>   - Fingerprint:
1C:BD:85:95:11:9F:EB:75:A5:4B:C8:A3:FE:08:E4:02:73:06:1E:61
> (R)eject or accept (t)emporarily?
> _______________________________________________
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Now be honest Randy, and tell us why you started this thread. Most 
people who leave a place/program/religion/whatever do so without trying 
to set it on fire. So was this a last parting shot? Or were you trying 
to get people to say "Please, Randy, don't leave us"?

I suspect it was mostly being trollish, and you've succeeded in getting 
people to respond. Congratulations! Well done.

I have a lot of complaints about the current state of FreeBSD. It's like 
the joke about the American justice system - it's the worst thing out 
there - except for everything else.

FreeBSD 10's roll out involved big changes. Not all have been handled 
well (ok, that's an understatement). The libiconv issue is one, and 
that's still being discussed ad nauseam on the ports mailing list since 
it was partially reverted. Rebuilding KDE-4 seems broken beyond repair. 
And now, if you're tracking "10-STABLE" you know that clang 3.4
has just
been merged in and it hasn't all been pretty. Removing BIND was another 
disaster, and also in retrospect based on assumptions and lack of 
information that was available right on ISC's website.

The switch to pkg(8) has been a mess, to say the least. As has been 
mentioned rather bluntly by someone, we keep being told "new things"
are
coming and current behavior isn't guaranteed not to change. What kind of 
crap is that?

The ports system in general needs a lot of work. The new pkg tools may 
eventually be the answer, and I do suspect they are, but they surely are 
not ready for prime time. Deprecating the pkg_ tools for a still in 
development and "subject to change at any time" tool seems short 
sighted, at least in retrospect.

I think it's time for some actual freezes on "new" features in
STABLE
(maybe CURRENT too), get things working again (last I checked there were 
over 1500 active ports related PR's alone). All of the devs should be 
focused on fixing the broken stuff that affects people now. JMMHO of course.

-- 
Jim Ohlstein


"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the 
difference." - Mark Twain

On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 09:12:48AM -0400, Jim Ohlstein
wrote:
> last I checked there were over 1500 active ports related PR's alone.
Current count is 1851.  See http://portsmon.freebsd.org/portsoverall.py .

The whole list is at:

 
http://portsmon.freebsd.org/portsprsbyexplanation.py?explanation=existing&sortby=prnumber&reverse
.

I did a little rough data reduction for curiosity about changes related
to "new infra":

% grep -i clang foo | wc -l
      32
% grep -i stage foo | wc -l
      37
% grep -i staging foo | wc -l
      31
% grep -i options foo | wc -l
      31
% grep -i cflags foo | wc -l
       5
% grep USE_ foo | wc -l
      22
% grep WITH_ foo | wc -l
      19

as opposed to:

% grep -i update foo | wc -l
     280

NB: I didn't check for overlaps.

I was expected to see more "new infra" changes than 200.

I will note that about a third of the PRs are from the last 3 months.
I no longer have an insight into how fast PRs are turned over but it
is quite brisk.

mcl

> Now be honest Randy, and tell us why you started this thread.
in the hope that ports will be made usable before so many people give up
that critical mass is lost.  a real tragedy if the great freebsd core
dies because of ports lack of usability.

randy