Puppet users - Apr 2012 - Looking for solution on working configuration for new testing Puppet servers in existing environments

Hello folks,

After some conversation on #puppet on Freenode IRC, Eric Sorenson
requested I repost the information and question here, so I am doing so
and hopefully it will all make sense...

We currently have a well-established and relatively complex Puppet
setup in place at my company and I''m in the process of trying to
streamline changes as well as implement better testing to ensure
minimal disruption or issues when making those changes.  Some
information on the current situation:

- There are currently three environments: development, staging,
production.  These are controlled via the ''--environment''
setting for
puppet in each client.  All clients only belong to one environment and
do not move between them.
- We have a single Puppet configuration to manage all environments.
Various conditional statements based on environment, application type,
hostname, etc. control what each client receives for its
configuration.
- There are separate servers for each environment for security reasons
(primarily sensitive information that can only exist in the production
environment).
- The Puppet configuration maintained via a Git repo, currently on a
single branch.
- Each person on the admin team checks out own copy of the repo, make
changes, commits the changes, then updates each environment on the
Puppet servers for the changes to take effect.

There are several issues with this process, unfortunately:

- Every so often a configuration mistake will adversely affect an
entire environment, and much of the time is only noticed _after_ the
changes are pushed out.  As a result, local changes tend to be made in
the development environment for testing and sometimes aren''t committed
for a long time, leaving discrepancies between the environments which
can lead to other subtle issues.
- Less frequent but still occuring often enough, changes can still
have subtle issues which cause things to work in one environment and
break horribly in another; this is especially bad when the broken
environment is the production one.
- The configuration for a given type of client is complex enough that
to change a client to a different application type (what we primarily
key most of our configuration off of, followed by the environment) to
test against a server would require rebuilding the client, which is a
25-45 minute process; too slow for simple changes and even too slow
for all but the most complex changes, given how many changes we make
in a single day.
- We allow our users to create local VMs that the development Puppet
server can key off their names to create a given configuration, but
since the configuration for the various environments is shared in a
Puppet configuration, potential for users point their puppet agents to
the production environment is a concern (due to the sensitive
information there).

After discussion with a few coworkers, the following process was laid
out to try to implement to resolve these issues:

- Create separate branches for each of the environments and have only
the matching branch checked out on the primary Puppet servers; changes
will be merged into the various branches one at a time to prevent
unintentional changes in a given environment before testing can be
done on that environment.
- Ensure a client in a given environment can ONLY run against that
configuration (e.g. disallow a client in the development environment
requesting the production configuration).
- Each person on the admin team will have a test server where they can
create their own branches from the Git repo for the changes they''re
working and use their test server to test changes against existing
clients in the various environments (preventing the need to build out
a new test client(s) to validate each change).  The existing clients
would only be run in no-op mode against the test servers.

The reason for each person on the admin team to have their own test
server that has access to all the environments is considered since:

- Having a different server for each environment would be affected by
the tight hardware resources currently.
- The need for having separate test servers would prevent needing to
use the primary servers for testing, which is difficult due to
multiple admins continuously making changes and needing to test them
without disturbing the other admins'' work, along with not affecting
the current primary servers from being able to properly handle their
existing clients.

What this all boils down to is I''m trying to find a way to deal with a
single test server trying to be able to communicate with existing
clients in all the environments; most of the current configuration
would work fine except for the cert issue, which is the sticking point
at this time.  Any solution on how to handle this in the most
straightforward manner would greatly be appreciated, as my research
has been leading to solutions far more complex than what I would like
(such as load balancing for the CA or trying to synchronize the certs
across the various systems).

Hopefully this made sense and I can find someone who can give advice
on how to proceed with this issue.  Thanks in advance.

- Ken Lareau

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

Hi Ken, thanks for posting.  

It seems like you have introduced some tension between the security 
requirements (clients which are in a particular environment must not be 
able to retrieve other environments) and the need to have widespread 
testing with good coverage. From what I understand you''ve managed this
now
by having different CA certificates for each environment, but -- as it 
sounds like you realise -- that is pretty problematic.  I''d suggest you
can
end-run around a lot of this trouble by using an external node classifier 
to set and enforce client environment, so regardless of what the 
--environment string says from the client, each of the masters will 
consistently enforce policy.  You don''t have to go all-in to node 
class/parameter assignment in the ENC because static configs are merged 
with the output. A prerequisite is that you need to have some source of 
truth which the ENCs can consult to determine the disposition of each node 
that connects, but that source-of-truth could be an access-controlled 
database (maybe you already have one?) that is, in general, going to be a 
better place to put business logic (which nodes should be able to access 
each environment, and even perhaps some of the conditional logic in your 
manifests) than Puppet itself.

This isn''t without its own set of problems and might not be a panacea
but I
think would help a lot of your use case. Some relevant reading:
http://docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/external_nodes.html
https://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3910
https://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/12869

Hope this helps
 - Eric Sorenson - N37 17.255 W121 55.738  - http://twitter.com/ahpook  -

On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:34:43 PM UTC-7, Ken Lareau
wrote:
>
> Hello folks, 
>
> After some conversation on #puppet on Freenode IRC, Eric Sorenson 
> requested I repost the information and question here, so I am doing so 
> and hopefully it will all make sense... 
>
> We currently have a well-established and relatively complex Puppet 
> setup in place at my company and I''m in the process of trying to 
> streamline changes as well as implement better testing to ensure 
> minimal disruption or issues when making those changes.  Some 
> information on the current situation: 
>
> - There are currently three environments: development, staging, 
> production.  These are controlled via the ''--environment''
setting for
> puppet in each client.  All clients only belong to one environment and 
> do not move between them. 
> - We have a single Puppet configuration to manage all environments. 
> Various conditional statements based on environment, application type, 
> hostname, etc. control what each client receives for its 
> configuration. 
> - There are separate servers for each environment for security reasons 
> (primarily sensitive information that can only exist in the production 
> environment). 
> - The Puppet configuration maintained via a Git repo, currently on a 
> single branch. 
> - Each person on the admin team checks out own copy of the repo, make 
> changes, commits the changes, then updates each environment on the 
> Puppet servers for the changes to take effect. 
>
> There are several issues with this process, unfortunately: 
>
> - Every so often a configuration mistake will adversely affect an 
> entire environment, and much of the time is only noticed _after_ the 
> changes are pushed out.  As a result, local changes tend to be made in 
> the development environment for testing and sometimes aren''t
committed
> for a long time, leaving discrepancies between the environments which 
> can lead to other subtle issues. 
> - Less frequent but still occuring often enough, changes can still 
> have subtle issues which cause things to work in one environment and 
> break horribly in another; this is especially bad when the broken 
> environment is the production one. 
> - The configuration for a given type of client is complex enough that 
> to change a client to a different application type (what we primarily 
> key most of our configuration off of, followed by the environment) to 
> test against a server would require rebuilding the client, which is a 
> 25-45 minute process; too slow for simple changes and even too slow 
> for all but the most complex changes, given how many changes we make 
> in a single day. 
> - We allow our users to create local VMs that the development Puppet 
> server can key off their names to create a given configuration, but 
> since the configuration for the various environments is shared in a 
> Puppet configuration, potential for users point their puppet agents to 
> the production environment is a concern (due to the sensitive 
> information there). 
>
> After discussion with a few coworkers, the following process was laid 
> out to try to implement to resolve these issues: 
>
> - Create separate branches for each of the environments and have only 
> the matching branch checked out on the primary Puppet servers; changes 
> will be merged into the various branches one at a time to prevent 
> unintentional changes in a given environment before testing can be 
> done on that environment. 
> - Ensure a client in a given environment can ONLY run against that 
> configuration (e.g. disallow a client in the development environment 
> requesting the production configuration). 
> - Each person on the admin team will have a test server where they can 
> create their own branches from the Git repo for the changes
they''re
> working and use their test server to test changes against existing 
> clients in the various environments (preventing the need to build out 
> a new test client(s) to validate each change).  The existing clients 
> would only be run in no-op mode against the test servers. 
>
> The reason for each person on the admin team to have their own test 
> server that has access to all the environments is considered since: 
>
> - Having a different server for each environment would be affected by 
> the tight hardware resources currently. 
> - The need for having separate test servers would prevent needing to 
> use the primary servers for testing, which is difficult due to 
> multiple admins continuously making changes and needing to test them 
> without disturbing the other admins'' work, along with not
affecting
> the current primary servers from being able to properly handle their 
> existing clients. 
>
> What this all boils down to is I''m trying to find a way to deal
with a
> single test server trying to be able to communicate with existing 
> clients in all the environments; most of the current configuration 
> would work fine except for the cert issue, which is the sticking point 
> at this time.  Any solution on how to handle this in the most 
> straightforward manner would greatly be appreciated, as my research 
> has been leading to solutions far more complex than what I would like 
> (such as load balancing for the CA or trying to synchronize the certs 
> across the various systems). 
>
> Hopefully this made sense and I can find someone who can give advice 
> on how to proceed with this issue.  Thanks in advance. 
>
> - Ken Lareau 
>
-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/puppet-users/-/HvWvZVO4JbYJ.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

I''ll take a stab at some of this.  Hopefully I''m correctly
understanding
your issue.

Am I correct in the following? :

You define 3 environments development, staging, and production.  These 
environments are defined as such in Puppet but they are also separate 
environments within your network, for the sake of clarity I''ll call
them
zones from here out?  

Each zone has a Puppet Master server.

Each Puppet Master server has three environments defined development, 
staging, and production.  Each environment has the full git repository with 
the applicable branch checked out.

The clients in each zone connect to the Puppet Master in their zone and 
pull their configs from the corresponding environment.  So a 
staging_zone_client connects to staging_zone_master and pulls from the 
staging_environment.  

If that''s correct then:

You already have three separate Puppet Masters so the environments are 
redundant.  As configured staging_zone_client can pull from 
production_environment using --environment.  One fix could be to define 
only the production environment on each zone''s Puppet Master and check
out
the applicable branch in only the production environment.  As long as you 
never check out the production branch in development or staging then 
clients from those zones couldn''t pull the settings for production zone
as
it''s just not available.  As long as they cannot connect to the other 
zone''s Puppet Master, preventable by network segmentation, certs etc...

Within each zone you could then define environments such as development and 
testing for conducting those activities within each zone.   So you''d
have
staging/dev and staging/test branches checked out in those environments.  I 
guess you could extend that and create environments for each admin within 
each zone that would allow the admin to use the --environment option for 
clients to test their work within a zone.  This would result in a lot of 
environments, and probably a lot of branches, but you wouldn''t need a
test
Puppet Master for each admin.  

I''d think this would introduce the problem of making it difficult to
reuse
modules between zones as I''d think you''d end up basically
managing three
completely different branches.  Unless the sensitive data you''re
worried
about is not being stored in your puppet repo and you have no issues 
merging changes made to the production branch into the development and 
testing branches, plus your admins will have a lot of different topic 
branches to deal with.  Long run you''d probably want to move zone
specific
settings out of your modules and use something like hiera so  you can 
standardize your modules across zones and just pull in the location 
settings using hiera.

Hope I understood your problems correctly and this is helpful..   

On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 10:34:43 PM UTC-4, Ken Lareau
wrote:
>
> Hello folks, 
>
> After some conversation on #puppet on Freenode IRC, Eric Sorenson 
> requested I repost the information and question here, so I am doing so 
> and hopefully it will all make sense... 
>
> We currently have a well-established and relatively complex Puppet 
> setup in place at my company and I''m in the process of trying to 
> streamline changes as well as implement better testing to ensure 
> minimal disruption or issues when making those changes.  Some 
> information on the current situation: 
>
> - There are currently three environments: development, staging, 
> production.  These are controlled via the ''--environment''
setting for
> puppet in each client.  All clients only belong to one environment and 
> do not move between them. 
> - We have a single Puppet configuration to manage all environments. 
> Various conditional statements based on environment, application type, 
> hostname, etc. control what each client receives for its 
> configuration. 
> - There are separate servers for each environment for security reasons 
> (primarily sensitive information that can only exist in the production 
> environment). 
> - The Puppet configuration maintained via a Git repo, currently on a 
> single branch. 
> - Each person on the admin team checks out own copy of the repo, make 
> changes, commits the changes, then updates each environment on the 
> Puppet servers for the changes to take effect. 
>
> There are several issues with this process, unfortunately: 
>
> - Every so often a configuration mistake will adversely affect an 
> entire environment, and much of the time is only noticed _after_ the 
> changes are pushed out.  As a result, local changes tend to be made in 
> the development environment for testing and sometimes aren''t
committed
> for a long time, leaving discrepancies between the environments which 
> can lead to other subtle issues. 
> - Less frequent but still occuring often enough, changes can still 
> have subtle issues which cause things to work in one environment and 
> break horribly in another; this is especially bad when the broken 
> environment is the production one. 
> - The configuration for a given type of client is complex enough that 
> to change a client to a different application type (what we primarily 
> key most of our configuration off of, followed by the environment) to 
> test against a server would require rebuilding the client, which is a 
> 25-45 minute process; too slow for simple changes and even too slow 
> for all but the most complex changes, given how many changes we make 
> in a single day. 
> - We allow our users to create local VMs that the development Puppet 
> server can key off their names to create a given configuration, but 
> since the configuration for the various environments is shared in a 
> Puppet configuration, potential for users point their puppet agents to 
> the production environment is a concern (due to the sensitive 
> information there). 
>
> After discussion with a few coworkers, the following process was laid 
> out to try to implement to resolve these issues: 
>
> - Create separate branches for each of the environments and have only 
> the matching branch checked out on the primary Puppet servers; changes 
> will be merged into the various branches one at a time to prevent 
> unintentional changes in a given environment before testing can be 
> done on that environment. 
> - Ensure a client in a given environment can ONLY run against that 
> configuration (e.g. disallow a client in the development environment 
> requesting the production configuration). 
> - Each person on the admin team will have a test server where they can 
> create their own branches from the Git repo for the changes
they''re
> working and use their test server to test changes against existing 
> clients in the various environments (preventing the need to build out 
> a new test client(s) to validate each change).  The existing clients 
> would only be run in no-op mode against the test servers. 
>
> The reason for each person on the admin team to have their own test 
> server that has access to all the environments is considered since: 
>
> - Having a different server for each environment would be affected by 
> the tight hardware resources currently. 
> - The need for having separate test servers would prevent needing to 
> use the primary servers for testing, which is difficult due to 
> multiple admins continuously making changes and needing to test them 
> without disturbing the other admins'' work, along with not
affecting
> the current primary servers from being able to properly handle their 
> existing clients. 
>
> What this all boils down to is I''m trying to find a way to deal
with a
> single test server trying to be able to communicate with existing 
> clients in all the environments; most of the current configuration 
> would work fine except for the cert issue, which is the sticking point 
> at this time.  Any solution on how to handle this in the most 
> straightforward manner would greatly be appreciated, as my research 
> has been leading to solutions far more complex than what I would like 
> (such as load balancing for the CA or trying to synchronize the certs 
> across the various systems). 
>
> Hopefully this made sense and I can find someone who can give advice 
> on how to proceed with this issue.  Thanks in advance. 
>
> - Ken Lareau 
>
-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/puppet-users/-/2BDCbntAOXoJ.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

Eric,

Thank you for the response, and yes, our current configuration and security
requirements have made things a bit difficult at the moment.  Fortunately
we do already have an ENC which does access an access-controlled database
and does have the environment information in it, though we still do pass
''--environment'' due to this not working long ago... and
looking at the
first issue ticket you mention, this could be a problem as our developers
are allowed to connect their own VMs to the development Puppet server but
can easily choose to point ''--environment'' to whatever they
please.  In
actuality, they can do that now (and it would probably work), so the
problem is already there, though I would definitely not want to make it
worse. :)  Right now our ENC only has a minimal amount of information in
it, but the plan is to eventually populate it with more and reduce the
amount of work the Puppet configuration has to do itself, as you suggested
below.

From the brief exchange on IRC this morning, the indication seems to be
moving to a single CA should be the follow-up to this, and I think this is
doable, though I''m still uncertain what the best path is to handle
this.
Once that''s done, I can then look into improving the security of our
systems (as in actually making it secure rather than what it really is
right now).

Thank you for your input.

- Ken Lareau


On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 7:56 AM, Eric Sorenson <eric.sorenson@me.com>
wrote:
> Hi Ken, thanks for posting.
>
> It seems like you have introduced some tension between the security
> requirements (clients which are in a particular environment must not be
> able to retrieve other environments) and the need to have widespread
> testing with good coverage. From what I understand you''ve managed
this now
> by having different CA certificates for each environment, but -- as it
> sounds like you realise -- that is pretty problematic.  I''d
suggest you can
> end-run around a lot of this trouble by using an external node classifier
> to set and enforce client environment, so regardless of what the
> --environment string says from the client, each of the masters will
> consistently enforce policy.  You don''t have to go all-in to node
> class/parameter assignment in the ENC because static configs are merged
> with the output. A prerequisite is that you need to have some source of
> truth which the ENCs can consult to determine the disposition of each node
> that connects, but that source-of-truth could be an access-controlled
> database (maybe you already have one?) that is, in general, going to be a
> better place to put business logic (which nodes should be able to access
> each environment, and even perhaps some of the conditional logic in your
> manifests) than Puppet itself.
>
> This isn''t without its own set of problems and might not be a
panacea but
> I think would help a lot of your use case. Some relevant reading:
> http://docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/external_nodes.html
> https://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3910
> https://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/12869
>
> Hope this helps
>  - Eric Sorenson - N37 17.255 W121 55.738  - http://twitter.com/ahpook  -
>
> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:34:43 PM UTC-7, Ken Lareau wrote:
>>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> After some conversation on #puppet on Freenode IRC, Eric Sorenson
>> requested I repost the information and question here, so I am doing so
>> and hopefully it will all make sense...
>>
>> We currently have a well-established and relatively complex Puppet
>> setup in place at my company and I''m in the process of trying
to
>> streamline changes as well as implement better testing to ensure
>> minimal disruption or issues when making those changes.  Some
>> information on the current situation:
>>
>> - There are currently three environments: development, staging,
>> production.  These are controlled via the
''--environment'' setting for
>> puppet in each client.  All clients only belong to one environment and
>> do not move between them.
>> - We have a single Puppet configuration to manage all environments.
>> Various conditional statements based on environment, application type,
>> hostname, etc. control what each client receives for its
>> configuration.
>> - There are separate servers for each environment for security reasons
>> (primarily sensitive information that can only exist in the production
>> environment).
>> - The Puppet configuration maintained via a Git repo, currently on a
>> single branch.
>> - Each person on the admin team checks out own copy of the repo, make
>> changes, commits the changes, then updates each environment on the
>> Puppet servers for the changes to take effect.
>>
>> There are several issues with this process, unfortunately:
>>
>> - Every so often a configuration mistake will adversely affect an
>> entire environment, and much of the time is only noticed _after_ the
>> changes are pushed out.  As a result, local changes tend to be made in
>> the development environment for testing and sometimes aren''t
committed
>> for a long time, leaving discrepancies between the environments which
>> can lead to other subtle issues.
>> - Less frequent but still occuring often enough, changes can still
>> have subtle issues which cause things to work in one environment and
>> break horribly in another; this is especially bad when the broken
>> environment is the production one.
>> - The configuration for a given type of client is complex enough that
>> to change a client to a different application type (what we primarily
>> key most of our configuration off of, followed by the environment) to
>> test against a server would require rebuilding the client, which is a
>> 25-45 minute process; too slow for simple changes and even too slow
>> for all but the most complex changes, given how many changes we make
>> in a single day.
>> - We allow our users to create local VMs that the development Puppet
>> server can key off their names to create a given configuration, but
>> since the configuration for the various environments is shared in a
>> Puppet configuration, potential for users point their puppet agents to
>> the production environment is a concern (due to the sensitive
>> information there).
>>
>> After discussion with a few coworkers, the following process was laid
>> out to try to implement to resolve these issues:
>>
>> - Create separate branches for each of the environments and have only
>> the matching branch checked out on the primary Puppet servers; changes
>> will be merged into the various branches one at a time to prevent
>> unintentional changes in a given environment before testing can be
>> done on that environment.
>> - Ensure a client in a given environment can ONLY run against that
>> configuration (e.g. disallow a client in the development environment
>> requesting the production configuration).
>> - Each person on the admin team will have a test server where they can
>> create their own branches from the Git repo for the changes
they''re
>> working and use their test server to test changes against existing
>> clients in the various environments (preventing the need to build out
>> a new test client(s) to validate each change).  The existing clients
>> would only be run in no-op mode against the test servers.
>>
>> The reason for each person on the admin team to have their own test
>> server that has access to all the environments is considered since:
>>
>> - Having a different server for each environment would be affected by
>> the tight hardware resources currently.
>> - The need for having separate test servers would prevent needing to
>> use the primary servers for testing, which is difficult due to
>> multiple admins continuously making changes and needing to test them
>> without disturbing the other admins'' work, along with not
affecting
>> the current primary servers from being able to properly handle their
>> existing clients.
>>
>> What this all boils down to is I''m trying to find a way to
deal with a
>> single test server trying to be able to communicate with existing
>> clients in all the environments; most of the current configuration
>> would work fine except for the cert issue, which is the sticking point
>> at this time.  Any solution on how to handle this in the most
>> straightforward manner would greatly be appreciated, as my research
>> has been leading to solutions far more complex than what I would like
>> (such as load balancing for the CA or trying to synchronize the certs
>> across the various systems).
>>
>> Hopefully this made sense and I can find someone who can give advice
>> on how to proceed with this issue.  Thanks in advance.
>>
>> - Ken Lareau
>>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Puppet Users" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/puppet-users/-/HvWvZVO4JbYJ.
> To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.
>


-- 
- Ken Lareau

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

Trevor,

Thank you for the response; I believe you got the idea pretty well and
while your suggestion makes sense, it is something we definitely can''t
follow through with right now; our configuration is massive and complex and
having to maintain three different yet similar sets of configuration would
be difficult and reduce our response time to necessary user changes (of
which we get anywhere from 5-10 a day).  It''s just not feasible without
a
complete reworking of how we do things right now, and not at the top of our
priority lists.

I do appreciate the input, however.  Thank you.

- Ken Lareau


On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Trevor Smith
<trevor.c.smith@gmail.com>wrote:
> I''ll take a stab at some of this.  Hopefully I''m
correctly understanding
> your issue.
>
> Am I correct in the following? :
>
> You define 3 environments development, staging, and production.  These
> environments are defined as such in Puppet but they are also separate
> environments within your network, for the sake of clarity I''ll
call them
> zones from here out?
>
> Each zone has a Puppet Master server.
>
> Each Puppet Master server has three environments defined development,
> staging, and production.  Each environment has the full git repository with
> the applicable branch checked out.
>
> The clients in each zone connect to the Puppet Master in their zone and
> pull their configs from the corresponding environment.  So a
> staging_zone_client connects to staging_zone_master and pulls from the
> staging_environment.
>
> If that''s correct then:
>
> You already have three separate Puppet Masters so the environments are
> redundant.  As configured staging_zone_client can pull from
> production_environment using --environment.  One fix could be to define
> only the production environment on each zone''s Puppet Master and
check out
> the applicable branch in only the production environment.  As long as you
> never check out the production branch in development or staging then
> clients from those zones couldn''t pull the settings for production
zone as
> it''s just not available.  As long as they cannot connect to the
other
> zone''s Puppet Master, preventable by network segmentation, certs
etc...
>
> Within each zone you could then define environments such as development
> and testing for conducting those activities within each zone.   So
you''d
> have staging/dev and staging/test branches checked out in those
> environments.  I guess you could extend that and create environments for
> each admin within each zone that would allow the admin to use the
> --environment option for clients to test their work within a zone.  This
> would result in a lot of environments, and probably a lot of branches, but
> you wouldn''t need a test Puppet Master for each admin.
>
> I''d think this would introduce the problem of making it difficult
to reuse
> modules between zones as I''d think you''d end up basically
managing three
> completely different branches.  Unless the sensitive data you''re
worried
> about is not being stored in your puppet repo and you have no issues
> merging changes made to the production branch into the development and
> testing branches, plus your admins will have a lot of different topic
> branches to deal with.  Long run you''d probably want to move zone
specific
> settings out of your modules and use something like hiera so  you can
> standardize your modules across zones and just pull in the location
> settings using hiera.
>
> Hope I understood your problems correctly and this is helpful..
>
> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 10:34:43 PM UTC-4, Ken Lareau wrote:
>>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> After some conversation on #puppet on Freenode IRC, Eric Sorenson
>> requested I repost the information and question here, so I am doing so
>> and hopefully it will all make sense...
>>
>> We currently have a well-established and relatively complex Puppet
>> setup in place at my company and I''m in the process of trying
to
>> streamline changes as well as implement better testing to ensure
>> minimal disruption or issues when making those changes.  Some
>> information on the current situation:
>>
>> - There are currently three environments: development, staging,
>> production.  These are controlled via the
''--environment'' setting for
>> puppet in each client.  All clients only belong to one environment and
>> do not move between them.
>> - We have a single Puppet configuration to manage all environments.
>> Various conditional statements based on environment, application type,
>> hostname, etc. control what each client receives for its
>> configuration.
>> - There are separate servers for each environment for security reasons
>> (primarily sensitive information that can only exist in the production
>> environment).
>> - The Puppet configuration maintained via a Git repo, currently on a
>> single branch.
>> - Each person on the admin team checks out own copy of the repo, make
>> changes, commits the changes, then updates each environment on the
>> Puppet servers for the changes to take effect.
>>
>> There are several issues with this process, unfortunately:
>>
>> - Every so often a configuration mistake will adversely affect an
>> entire environment, and much of the time is only noticed _after_ the
>> changes are pushed out.  As a result, local changes tend to be made in
>> the development environment for testing and sometimes aren''t
committed
>> for a long time, leaving discrepancies between the environments which
>> can lead to other subtle issues.
>> - Less frequent but still occuring often enough, changes can still
>> have subtle issues which cause things to work in one environment and
>> break horribly in another; this is especially bad when the broken
>> environment is the production one.
>> - The configuration for a given type of client is complex enough that
>> to change a client to a different application type (what we primarily
>> key most of our configuration off of, followed by the environment) to
>> test against a server would require rebuilding the client, which is a
>> 25-45 minute process; too slow for simple changes and even too slow
>> for all but the most complex changes, given how many changes we make
>> in a single day.
>> - We allow our users to create local VMs that the development Puppet
>> server can key off their names to create a given configuration, but
>> since the configuration for the various environments is shared in a
>> Puppet configuration, potential for users point their puppet agents to
>> the production environment is a concern (due to the sensitive
>> information there).
>>
>> After discussion with a few coworkers, the following process was laid
>> out to try to implement to resolve these issues:
>>
>> - Create separate branches for each of the environments and have only
>> the matching branch checked out on the primary Puppet servers; changes
>> will be merged into the various branches one at a time to prevent
>> unintentional changes in a given environment before testing can be
>> done on that environment.
>> - Ensure a client in a given environment can ONLY run against that
>> configuration (e.g. disallow a client in the development environment
>> requesting the production configuration).
>> - Each person on the admin team will have a test server where they can
>> create their own branches from the Git repo for the changes
they''re
>> working and use their test server to test changes against existing
>> clients in the various environments (preventing the need to build out
>> a new test client(s) to validate each change).  The existing clients
>> would only be run in no-op mode against the test servers.
>>
>> The reason for each person on the admin team to have their own test
>> server that has access to all the environments is considered since:
>>
>> - Having a different server for each environment would be affected by
>> the tight hardware resources currently.
>> - The need for having separate test servers would prevent needing to
>> use the primary servers for testing, which is difficult due to
>> multiple admins continuously making changes and needing to test them
>> without disturbing the other admins'' work, along with not
affecting
>> the current primary servers from being able to properly handle their
>> existing clients.
>>
>> What this all boils down to is I''m trying to find a way to
deal with a
>> single test server trying to be able to communicate with existing
>> clients in all the environments; most of the current configuration
>> would work fine except for the cert issue, which is the sticking point
>> at this time.  Any solution on how to handle this in the most
>> straightforward manner would greatly be appreciated, as my research
>> has been leading to solutions far more complex than what I would like
>> (such as load balancing for the CA or trying to synchronize the certs
>> across the various systems).
>>
>> Hopefully this made sense and I can find someone who can give advice
>> on how to proceed with this issue.  Thanks in advance.
>>
>> - Ken Lareau
>>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Puppet Users" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/puppet-users/-/2BDCbntAOXoJ.
>
> To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.
>


-- 
- Ken Lareau

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

Hi Ken,

Your site and your practices (and the problems that go with it) are 
similar to our own. I''ve answered by describing what we think the way 
forward for Puppet is for us, hopefully you find it helpful and get some 
ideas :-)

I feel your pain when you say there are changes languishing in Dev for 
too long that get inadvertently pushed out to other environments. Once I 
accidentally rolled out a whole set of ''work in progress''
changes that a
colleague of mine was committing and pushing to one environment (we use 
Git) and I cut a new tag and pushed a whole heap of these unfinished 
changes to the next environment up the chain.

After this I realised our current model really wasn''t going to work in 
the long run: this happened with only two Admins working on Puppet in 
the last week when we employ almost a dozen who could potentially make 
the same mistakes. While we''re still stuck in this model now, we think 
the way forward for us is to take a page out of our Development Team''s 
book and set up a fully fledged CI environment for Puppet. It would be 
even more awesome if our Developer''s CI was also our CI - but 
considering they''ve got half a million unit tests and we''ve
got zero,
we''ve got a long way to go.

How this plays out practically is that all our admins commit into our 
Puppet repository and those changes start getting applied immediately to 
our Dev/CI servers and they start getting tested against immediately 
(hence the unit tests). Problems will always occur, but they will occur 
almost immediately and we''ll have feedback to fix it.

In response to your reply to Trevor:

Can you explain how you see maintaining three slightly different 
environments with one Puppet Master and a firewall is more difficult 
than three individual Puppet Masters? You''ve already got all the 
differences written down in your existing manifests - different IP 
addresses for different services, different users/passwords, etc, maybe 
slightly different packages, or am I missing something?

Without knowing more about your site (so hopefully this suggestion is 
relevant), here''s what I would do: I would slowly start to encourage 
people to separate out your data from your code using a shared 
repository. Take a look at Hiera if you haven''t already, I''d
recommend
using it but other data sources would suffice as well.

So right now you''ve got your Dev data in your Dev modules, your Staging
data in your Staging modules, etc. Take one of your modules (lets say 
DNS, it''s easy), and put it''s data (DNS server IP addresses)
into a
shared data store that each of your Dev, Staging and Prod Puppet Masters 
can access. Then change your Dev module to remove the data and pull it 
from the data store. Then do Staging, the same data store but different 
information, then finally Prod. If your three separate DNS modules
don''t
look *exactly* the same now, you''ve done something wrong. Do that for 
every module and you''ve now got no reason not to run a single Puppet 
Master. The changes would take some time to do every module but if you 
encourage every admin to make a small step forward each change they 
make, eventually you''d get there.

What kind of changes are you making 5-10 times a day? The same changes 
for the same people? We have a situation here where our Developers 
sometimes need to change the configuration of our application every 
hour. Right now we don''t manage those systems with Puppet because
making
that many changes of the same thing over and over is a monumental waste 
of our time.

I hack on Hiera a little bit to get some extra functionality from it, 
mainly the ability to tier my data sources. What I plan on doing is to 
have a low priority data store that''s managed by Developers. Since all 
our modules will (eventually) look to the data stores to configure 
themselves, our Developers will be able to make their own system 
configuration changes. Our Admins control the modules (we write *how* 
it''s done) and the higher priority data stores so we can override 
whatever the Developers enter if need be (we don''t want a Developer 
changing the root password now). The Developers then trigger their own 
Puppet run and they''ve reconfigured the system using the same method 
(same Puppet modules) as Production so I don''t have to worry about 
things "being done differently in Dev".

-Luke

On 18/04/12 21:08, Ken Lareau wrote:
> Trevor,
>
> Thank you for the response; I believe you got the idea pretty well and 
> while your suggestion makes sense, it is something we definitely
can''t
> follow through with right now; our configuration is massive and 
> complex and having to maintain three different yet similar sets of 
> configuration would be difficult and reduce our response time to 
> necessary user changes (of which we get anywhere from 5-10 a day).  
> It''s just not feasible without a complete reworking of how we do 
> things right now, and not at the top of our priority lists.
>
> I do appreciate the input, however.  Thank you.
>
> - Ken Lareau
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Trevor Smith 
> <trevor.c.smith@gmail.com <mailto:trevor.c.smith@gmail.com>>
wrote:
>
>     I''ll take a stab at some of this.  Hopefully I''m
correctly
>     understanding your issue.
>
>     Am I correct in the following? :
>
>     You define 3 environments development, staging, and production.
>      These environments are defined as such in Puppet but they are
>     also separate environments within your network, for the sake of
>     clarity I''ll call them zones from here out?
>
>     Each zone has a Puppet Master server.
>
>     Each Puppet Master server has three environments defined
>     development, staging, and production.  Each environment has the
>     full git repository with the applicable branch checked out.
>
>     The clients in each zone connect to the Puppet Master in their
>     zone and pull their configs from the corresponding environment.
>      So a staging_zone_client connects to staging_zone_master and
>     pulls from the staging_environment.
>
>     If that''s correct then:
>
>     You already have three separate Puppet Masters so the environments
>     are redundant.  As configured staging_zone_client can pull from
>     production_environment using --environment.  One fix could be to
>     define only the production environment on each zone''s Puppet
>     Master and check out the applicable branch in only the production
>     environment.  As long as you never check out the production branch
>     in development or staging then clients from those zones
couldn''t
>     pull the settings for production zone as it''s just not
available.
>      As long as they cannot connect to the other zone''s Puppet
Master,
>     preventable by network segmentation, certs etc...
>
>     Within each zone you could then define environments such as
>     development and testing for conducting those activities within
>     each zone.   So you''d have staging/dev and staging/test
branches
>     checked out in those environments.  I guess you could extend that
>     and create environments for each admin within each zone that would
>     allow the admin to use the --environment option for clients to
>     test their work within a zone.  This would result in a lot of
>     environments, and probably a lot of branches, but you wouldn''t
>     need a test Puppet Master for each admin.
>
>     I''d think this would introduce the problem of making it
difficult
>     to reuse modules between zones as I''d think you''d end
up basically
>     managing three completely different branches.  Unless the
>     sensitive data you''re worried about is not being stored in
your
>     puppet repo and you have no issues merging changes made to the
>     production branch into the development and testing branches, plus
>     your admins will have a lot of different topic branches to deal
>     with.  Long run you''d probably want to move zone specific
settings
>     out of your modules and use something like hiera so  you can
>     standardize your modules across zones and just pull in the
>     location settings using hiera.
>
>     Hope I understood your problems correctly and this is helpful..
>
>     On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 10:34:43 PM UTC-4, Ken Lareau wrote:
>
>         Hello folks,
>
>         After some conversation on #puppet on Freenode IRC, Eric Sorenson
>         requested I repost the information and question here, so I am
>         doing so
>         and hopefully it will all make sense...
>
>         We currently have a well-established and relatively complex
>         Puppet
>         setup in place at my company and I''m in the process of
trying to
>         streamline changes as well as implement better testing to ensure
>         minimal disruption or issues when making those changes.  Some
>         information on the current situation:
>
>         - There are currently three environments: development, staging,
>         production.  These are controlled via the
''--environment''
>         setting for
>         puppet in each client.  All clients only belong to one
>         environment and
>         do not move between them.
>         - We have a single Puppet configuration to manage all
>         environments.
>         Various conditional statements based on environment,
>         application type,
>         hostname, etc. control what each client receives for its
>         configuration.
>         - There are separate servers for each environment for security
>         reasons
>         (primarily sensitive information that can only exist in the
>         production
>         environment).
>         - The Puppet configuration maintained via a Git repo,
>         currently on a
>         single branch.
>         - Each person on the admin team checks out own copy of the
>         repo, make
>         changes, commits the changes, then updates each environment on
>         the
>         Puppet servers for the changes to take effect.
>
>         There are several issues with this process, unfortunately:
>
>         - Every so often a configuration mistake will adversely affect an
>         entire environment, and much of the time is only noticed
>         _after_ the
>         changes are pushed out.  As a result, local changes tend to be
>         made in
>         the development environment for testing and sometimes
aren''t
>         committed
>         for a long time, leaving discrepancies between the
>         environments which
>         can lead to other subtle issues.
>         - Less frequent but still occuring often enough, changes can
>         still
>         have subtle issues which cause things to work in one
>         environment and
>         break horribly in another; this is especially bad when the broken
>         environment is the production one.
>         - The configuration for a given type of client is complex
>         enough that
>         to change a client to a different application type (what we
>         primarily
>         key most of our configuration off of, followed by the
>         environment) to
>         test against a server would require rebuilding the client,
>         which is a
>         25-45 minute process; too slow for simple changes and even too
>         slow
>         for all but the most complex changes, given how many changes
>         we make
>         in a single day.
>         - We allow our users to create local VMs that the development
>         Puppet
>         server can key off their names to create a given
>         configuration, but
>         since the configuration for the various environments is shared
>         in a
>         Puppet configuration, potential for users point their puppet
>         agents to
>         the production environment is a concern (due to the sensitive
>         information there).
>
>         After discussion with a few coworkers, the following process
>         was laid
>         out to try to implement to resolve these issues:
>
>         - Create separate branches for each of the environments and
>         have only
>         the matching branch checked out on the primary Puppet servers;
>         changes
>         will be merged into the various branches one at a time to prevent
>         unintentional changes in a given environment before testing
>         can be
>         done on that environment.
>         - Ensure a client in a given environment can ONLY run against
>         that
>         configuration (e.g. disallow a client in the development
>         environment
>         requesting the production configuration).
>         - Each person on the admin team will have a test server where
>         they can
>         create their own branches from the Git repo for the changes
>         they''re
>         working and use their test server to test changes against
>         existing
>         clients in the various environments (preventing the need to
>         build out
>         a new test client(s) to validate each change).  The existing
>         clients
>         would only be run in no-op mode against the test servers.
>
>         The reason for each person on the admin team to have their own
>         test
>         server that has access to all the environments is considered
>         since:
>
>         - Having a different server for each environment would be
>         affected by
>         the tight hardware resources currently.
>         - The need for having separate test servers would prevent
>         needing to
>         use the primary servers for testing, which is difficult due to
>         multiple admins continuously making changes and needing to
>         test them
>         without disturbing the other admins'' work, along with not
>         affecting
>         the current primary servers from being able to properly handle
>         their
>         existing clients.
>
>         What this all boils down to is I''m trying to find a way to
>         deal with a
>         single test server trying to be able to communicate with existing
>         clients in all the environments; most of the current
>         configuration
>         would work fine except for the cert issue, which is the
>         sticking point
>         at this time.  Any solution on how to handle this in the most
>         straightforward manner would greatly be appreciated, as my
>         research
>         has been leading to solutions far more complex than what I
>         would like
>         (such as load balancing for the CA or trying to synchronize
>         the certs
>         across the various systems).
>
>         Hopefully this made sense and I can find someone who can give
>         advice
>         on how to proceed with this issue.  Thanks in advance.
>
>         - Ken Lareau
>
>     -- 
>     You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>     Groups "Puppet Users" group.
>     To view this discussion on the web visit
>     https://groups.google.com/d/msg/puppet-users/-/2BDCbntAOXoJ.
>
>     To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
>     <mailto:puppet-users@googlegroups.com>.
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>     puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>     <mailto:puppet-users%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
>     For more options, visit this group at
>     http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> - Ken Lareau
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Puppet Users" group.
> To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.

-- 
Luke Bigum

Information Systems
Ph: +44 (0) 20 3192 2520
luke.bigum@lmax.com | http://www.lmax.com
LMAX, Yellow Building, 1A Nicholas Road, London W11 4AN



FX and CFDs are leveraged products that can result in losses exceeding
your deposit.  They are not suitable for everyone so please ensure you
fully understand the risks involved.  The information in this email is not
directed at residents of the United States of America or any other
jurisdiction where trading in CFDs and/or FX is restricted or prohibited
by local laws or regulations.

The information in this email and any attachment is confidential and is
intended only for the named recipient(s). The email may not be disclosed
or used by any person other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in
any way. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender
immediately and delete any copies of this message. Any unauthorised
copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is
strictly forbidden.

LMAX operates a multilateral trading facility.  Authorised and regulated 
by the Financial Services Authority (firm registration number 509778) and
is registered in England and Wales (number 06505809). 
Our registered address is Yellow Building, 1A Nicholas Road, London, W11
4AN.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.