Monkey's Audio lossless compressor (currently win32 only, free but not open-source except decoder) author is thinking to implement a kind of audiophile-quality lossy compression which would filter "noise bits" that are hard to encode lossless but which are (or should be) inaudible and thus improve lossless compression (avg. 300-450kbps). I think that implementing something like this in future OggSquish could be very interesting for people who want very high-quality but are unsatisfied with lossless compression ratios. Here's the message from Monkey's Audio forum: _____________________________________ Howdy everyone, I was putzing around with MAC today and I made a lossy mode that seems perfectly transparent at around 300-450kbps. It doesn't do any psychoacoustic tricks... just filters off worthless "noise bits". Anyway, I was toying with the idea of making this format work in conjunction with a "recovery record", so that when you compressed you'd get both - an audiophile-quality lossy copy and a lossless recovery record. It'd be a high-quality lossy format that works hand-in-hand with lossless compression. If you have stuff you didn't listen to much, or were running out of space, you could just stash the recovery records away, and you'd still have awesome sounding music. So, what do people think of this one? Is it a good idea or is it stupid? If people seem interested, I'll put together a version so you can do some listening tests and let me know what you think. Take care and thanks for any opinions. -Matt ____________________________ --- Aleksandar @ Vorbis Xtreme | http://solair.eunet.yu/~aldov Ogg Vorbis is the free, open source alternative to MP3 --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
--- Aleksandar Dovnikovic <aldov@EUnet.yu> wrote:> Monkey's Audio lossless compressor (currently win32 only, free but > not > open-source except decoder) author is thinking to implement a kind of > audiophile-quality lossy compression which would filter "noise bits" > that > are hard to encode lossless but which are (or should be) inaudible > and thus > improve lossless compression (avg. 300-450kbps). I think that > implementing > something like this in future OggSquish could be very interesting for > people > who want very high-quality but are unsatisfied with lossless > compression > ratios. >I replied on that board how the method he is proposing just injects quantization noise, and that a good perceptual codec should sound less noisy at the same bitrate, and that Shorten already does this and I don't know that people use it. People are making pretty wild claims about quality there but it has a religious sound to it. I guess if you are less sensitive to noise than other kinds of artifacts (like pre-echo) maybe it could be better. Josh __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
...Well, personally, I chose the way on listening music depending on my needs and compressed formats are just an alternative. If I just want BGM, mp3 is good enough. I encoded almost all the rock and pop CDs I have into mp3. Especially about 60's and 70's music, they haven't got any better music source. However, I have not touched any of my classical music collection and am looking forward to SACD and any other development in this area. One thing I can say about this topic is that whether mp3, vorbis, MA, vynal or SACD, they are just alternatives for my style of enjoying music. We are not forced to stuck with one of the formats above as they are offering us choices (Of course, some with money but what if you find they worth it?). Anyway, the name Ogg seems to appear in the CD-RW forum (http://cd-rw.org/forum). Thanx to Alexander, I have been around the web to see compression forums to find MP3 especially LAME is very popular. Beside its quality, the popularity of LAME seems to also depend on its custamisability. We can chose how to compress wav to MP3 depending on our needs and tastes. LAME gives MP3 further alternatives than the orignal FIIS does. This enabled forums to let communicate the users and developers each other. Can we see this phenomenon here or any other else on the net? Of course, I hope so. P.S. I am also enjoying the new winamp plug-in. The main inforamtion is claearly sorted out and we can add any other piece of information as well. If database systems like comment editor or Dj tool are depeloped, it would be a fun. E.g. 'Guitar-Edge' will lead us to even new 'Tomb Raider' sound track whlie 'Guitar-Brian May' will do the same to 'Godzilla' or 'Flash Gordon' sound track and any Queen albums. Any way, thank you for the plug-in, Joshua. ___________________________________________________________________ To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax, all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>On Thu, 31 May 2001, fungus wrote: > >> (Remembering all the hours spent arguing with a guy >> who swore that really expensive CD players were >> worth the extra money - apparently they can "get >> more information off the disc" than a normal player. >> And no, no amount of explaining the difference between >> digital and analogue would convince him, two plus two >> *can* equal five, if you spend enough money...) > >Expensive car CD players(I dont know about regular home stereo systems) can read CD-Text I believe, which is where your writer writes before where the audio starts the CD name and tracks of the CD onto the CD which is very helpful in my opinion but not worth the money. My friend said he bought Nelly(retail, not a copy, rare these days huh?) and when he put it in it said the CD name and all the tracks. As for qaulity, most of it is in the amp. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.