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Jason Hsu

2011-Mar-29 05:32 UTC

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

I've been trying to switch from Linux to BSD for my everyday computing
(email, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.), but I couldn't get things to
work properly.  I've been so spoiled by the quickness and user-friendliness
of antiX/Swift Linux and Puppy Linux for so long.  I have a backlog of stuff to
do, so I'm sticking to Linux for now as my main OS.  However, I might try
BSD in VirtualBox and on my laptop.

Are there any good tutorials for using BSD on the desktop?  I'm having much
more difficulty finding good information on BSD than was the case for Linux.  In
retrospect, this shouldn't be a surprise given that Linux is relatively
mainstream while BSD is very obscure.

Some questions:
1.  Is it possible to install KDE, GNOME, or other DE from the FreeBSD CD in a
reasonable amount of time?  KDE and GNOME are huge programs, and having to
download them would take too long.
2.  What's lighter than PCBSD and GhostBSD?  I tried the live DVDs on my
laptop (1.4 GHz processor, 1.25 GB of RAM) and found both BSD distros to be very
sluggish.  Ubuntu and Mint were faster and fit on a CD, and these two distros
have been criticized as bloatware.  Also, the keyboard didn't work in
GhostBSD.
3.  How do I triple-boot Puppy Linux, antiX/Swift Linux, and DragonflyBSD?  I
already use a Puppy Linux/Swift Linux dual boot.  For the life of me, I
couldn't figure out what to put in the menu.lst file to allow DragonflyBSD
to boot.  (By contrast, antiX Linux and Swift Linux automatically add the
appropriate entries in menu.lst.)
4.  What are the Linux Mint and Puppy Linux of the BSD universe?  I consider
these two distros to set the standard in the Linux universe, because they're
so user-friendly.  These are the distros I've set out to compete against in
developing Swift Linux.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

Doug Barton

2011-Mar-29 06:26 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

On 03/28/2011 22:32, Jason Hsu wrote:> I've been trying to switch from Linux to BSD for my everyday computing
(email, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.), but I couldn't get things to
work properly.  I've been so spoiled by the quickness and user-friendliness
of antiX/Swift Linux and Puppy Linux for so long.  I have a backlog of stuff to
do, so I'm sticking to Linux for now as my main OS.  However, I might try
BSD in VirtualBox and on my laptop.
>
> Are there any good tutorials for using BSD on the desktop?
Simple answer, if your only goal is to have a Unix-like desktop, you're 
better off sticking with Linux. FreeBSD is not really focused on desktop 
use, whereas a lot of the Linux distributions are, and if you're happy 
with the ones you are using there is no good reason to switch.

If you want to use FreeBSD as a desktop because you have a desire to 
learn FreeBSD, your best bet is visit the home page at 
http://www.FreeBSD.org/, look under Documentation, and start reading the 
Handbook.


hope this helps,

Doug

-- 

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Jeremy Chadwick

2011-Mar-29 06:27 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 01:32:23AM -0400, Jason Hsu
wrote:> I've been trying to switch from Linux to BSD for my everyday computing
> (email, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.), but I couldn't get
> things to work properly.  I've been so spoiled by the quickness and
> user-friendliness of antiX/Swift Linux and Puppy Linux for so long.  I
> have a backlog of stuff to do, so I'm sticking to Linux for now as my
> main OS.  However, I might try BSD in VirtualBox and on my laptop.
> 
> Are there any good tutorials for using BSD on the desktop?  I'm having
> much more difficulty finding good information on BSD than was the case
> for Linux.  In retrospect, this shouldn't be a surprise given that
> Linux is relatively mainstream while BSD is very obscure.
If desktop BSD is more your style, you might want to look into using
PC-BSD, which is based on FreeBSD.  You did mention it in the portion of
your text that I removed though.  But I have no experience with it (I
mainly use FreeBSD for servers).

To answer your Subject question directly: I can't speak for others, but
the way I did it was by giving up Linux entirely and forcing myself to
use FreeBSD.  Gaining familiarity took years upon years.  In no way
shape or form do I think I'm a "FreeBSD master" -- there is a lot
of
change going on, and a lot of pieces to the OS that I do not understand.
That is just the nature of the beast, and applies to all OSes -- even
Windows.  I'm just now learning PowerShell at my workplace; my brain
feels like it's full.

Maybe a sympathy (empathy?) story will relieve some of your stress and
keep your spirits up.

I started with Linux 0.99pl45, installed on my 486 via floppies.  I
helped test CSLIP code since Oregon State at the time was putting some
new Annex dial-in boxes into place that offered CSLIP vs. SLIP.  The
concept of Slackware existed but was basically just "a thing to get
Linux on your machine"; there weren't other choices (to my knowledge).
The last Linux version I used heavily was the 1.3.x series, and did
experiment with the 2.0.x series as well.

There were 4 reasons I gave up on Linux (for our servers):

1) I was sick and tired of having to apply patches on top of patches.
To fix a serious bug or add a needed feature in the kernel, you'd have
to dig through mailing lists, find a patch -- usually 30-40KBytes in
size -- and apply it.  Then if you needed something else, you'd have to
do the same thing -- and the patches usually were from different people
and (key point) did not apply cleanly with one another.  In the late
1.3.x days I was literally applying 8 or 9 patches (anyone remember the
"ac" patchset from Alan Cox?  Still a sore spot for me), and having to
re-work them by hand almost every time.  Amusingly, parts of FreeBSD are
becoming like this, but the source code is still managed centrally and
you get everything you need from csup/src-all for a working system.

2) Package management didn't exist.  There was this "thing" ( ;-)
) that
eventually got created called RPM, but it didn't jibe with what
Slackware did, so you ended up with a mix-match system: some programs
built from source, others from RPMs.  I preferred to build everything
from source, dropped it all into /usr/src, made my own scripts to run
configure/make/etc. with the right arguments, and so on.  I did all the
dependency management myself by hand.  The experience I gained from this
still applies even today.

3) Our systems were rooted on two separate occasions.  On both occasions
the attackers gained access through combinations of badly-written
daemons and kernel exploits (and in the case of the latter, often ones
which hadn't been announced on lists; there was no official "security
mailing list" back then -- remember, no distros).  FreeBSD was known for
being more secure (not flawless, just better in this regard) at the
time.

There's also something that doesn't get discussed often enough: Linux is
incredibly popular and as such is a huge focus for l33t h4x0r k1dz.  The
BSDs are not so much a focus, which is a big plus.

Example: recently one of our users had his website compromised through a
PHP bug, and the attacker attempted to install a rootkit for Linux.
Naturally it broke (it even had "FreeBSD support" in it, but obviously
the kids didn't test it ever, which further supports my point).  I had
the users' website down for about 24 hours while I did a security
analysis, found the hole, restored his account from a 16-hour-old
backup, and immediately had him upgrade the software so he wouldn't be
compromised again.

4) The state of the firewall stack in Linux was -- and still is -- a
complete disgrace.  This actually *is* a slam against Linux.  :-)
ipfwadm, then ipchains, then iptables.  FreeBSD ipfw was a godsend
compared to those, and today, pf(4) blows everything out of the water.
One of my home routers is Linux-based and every time I have to bust out
"iptables -L" I want to throw up.  I "understand" it, I just
think it's
a horrible way to represent and control a firewalling layer.

My personal opinion is that you're being impatient -- though your
concerns and questions being justified/legitimate, please don't get me
wrong or take that as an insult.  I've only seen you on the list
recently asking some good questions, but you may be feeling what I did
when I switched from Linux to FreeBSD -- very overwhelmed.  Everything
was so different, lots of useful or convenient things didn't seem to
exist (and still don't), and finding the BSD version of a Linux
"thing"
was a scary ordeal.

Anyway...

I tend to recommend to people that they use whatever OS they prefer,
whatever works best for them, whatever meets their familiarity levels.
If that's Linux, awesome.  If NetBSD, awesome.  If Windows XP, awesome.
If OS X, awesome.  With virtualisation out there -- things like VMware
Workstation, Xen, etc. you can experiment with a new OS without leaving
your current one.  Maybe that would be a better choice for you right
now?

-- 
| Jeremy Chadwick                                   jdc@parodius.com |
| Parodius Networking                       http://www.parodius.com/ |
| UNIX Systems Administrator                  Mountain View, CA, USA |
| Making life hard for others since 1977.               PGP 4BD6C0CB |

Gour

2011-Mar-29 06:55 UTC

head link

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:32:23 -0400
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> I've been trying to switch from Linux to BSD for my everyday
> computing (email, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.), but I
> couldn't get things to work properly.  
I'm in the same boat, and will try today again...
> Are there any good tutorials for using BSD on the desktop?  I'm
> having much more difficulty finding good information on BSD than was
> the case for Linux.  In retrospect, this shouldn't be a surprise
> given that Linux is relatively mainstream while BSD is very obscure.
I can recommend to take a look at PC-BSD (http://www.pcbsd.org/) and
it handbook (http://wiki.pcbsd.org/index.php/PC-BSD_Users_Handbook)
which gives lot of information how to install & use it.
> 1.  Is it possible to install KDE, GNOME, or other DE from the
> FreeBSD CD in a reasonable amount of time?  KDE and GNOME are huge
> programs, and having to download them would take too long. 
Try latest PC-BSD 9-0 snapshot which offers KDE/GNOME/LXDE/XFCE for
install and some other WMs (awesome, etc.)
>  2.  What's lighter than PCBSD and GhostBSD?  I tried the live DVDs
> on my laptop (1.4 GHz processor, 1.25 GB of RAM) and found both BSD
> distros to be very sluggish.
Don't know. I just played with PC-BSD which I'll put on my desktop
(5yr old laptop is already running PC-BSD with XFCE).

Maybe the problem was KDE if you installed that DE.
> 3.  How do I triple-boot Puppy Linux, antiX/Swift Linux, and
> DragonflyBSD?
PC-BSD handbook gives information how to dual-boot with GRUB.

I personally did not try since I want to migrate from Linux and won't
keep GRUB.
> 4.  What are the Linux Mint and Puppy Linux of the BSD universe?  I
> consider these two distros to set the standard in the Linux
> universe, because they're so user-friendly.  These are the distros
> I've set out to compete against in developing Swift Linux.
I never used Linux Mint nor Puppy Linux, but I believe that
e.g. PC-BSD wants to be something like Ubuntu Linux in regard to its
usability.

In the last ~4yrs I use Archlinux for which I several times heard it
is "the most BSD-like distro" (Prior to Arch, I spent >5yrs with
Gentoo).

However, there is one nice feature of PC-BSD coming in 9.0 and may be
used in other BSD-es as well. Please, read this paper:

http://blog.pcbsd.org/2011/03/formal-paper-on-new-pbi-9-format/


All the best with your switch. ;)


Sincerely,
Gour
 

-- 
?In the material world, conceptions of good and bad are all mental
speculations?? (Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu)

http://atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: CDBF17CA


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Paul A. Procacci

2011-Mar-29 06:56 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Hello Jason,

(Highly Opinionated Piece)
> Are there any good tutorials for using BSD on the desktop?  I'm having
much more difficulty finding good information on BSD than was the case for
Linux.  In retrospect, this shouldn't be a surprise given that Linux is
relatively mainstream while BSD is very obscure.

PC-BSD is probably your best bet.  (http://www.pcbsd.org/)

With that said, I recall some debate a while back, but it's my opinion that
FreeBSD doesn't make the greatest desktop OS.  There are many obstacles to
getting things working properly.  There are lots of examples to choose from, but
I'll start with two in particular that are a necesity for me: skype, wine
(amd64)

Naturally, it's been several months since I've tried and the above might
have changed, but certianly it is a headache.  The problem is really the
software vendors whom target Linux (alsa crap for example).  That doesn't
mean you can't ru
n FreeBSD as a desktop (or any variant thereof), I've done it for many many
years, but at this time I stick to windows as I'm a heavy gamer.

In regards to being obscure, it's my belief that FreeBSD as a desktop is
limping by, but when you get right down to it, it makes for a wonderful server,
probably the best there is.
>
> Some questions:
> 1.  Is it possible to install KDE, GNOME, or other DE from the FreeBSD CD
in a reasonable amount of time?  KDE and GNOME are huge programs, and having to
download them would take too long.
You can either a) install it from cd like you mentioned or b) install it using
the pkg_add command:  pkg_add -r kdebase4

The same goes for gnome.  pkg_add -r gnome2  (I think)
> 2.  What's lighter than PCBSD and GhostBSD?  I tried the live DVDs on
my laptop (1.4 GHz processor, 1.25 GB of RAM) and found both BSD distros to be
very sluggish.  Ubuntu and Mint were faster and fit on a CD, and these two
distros have been criticized as bloatware.  Also, the keyboard didn't work in GhostBSD.

This is the FreeBSD mailing list.  The question regarding GhostBSD is probably
better suited for that mailing list.  Your claim about Ubuntu and Mint being
faster should be backed up with evidence.  Quite the contrary I find FreeBSD to
*feel* faster than any linux distro I've tried.  Obviously this is highly
opinionated.
> 3.  How do I triple-boot Puppy Linux, antiX/Swift Linux, and DragonflyBSD? 
I already use a Puppy Linux/Swift Linux dual boot.  For the life of me, I
couldn't figure out what to put in the menu.lst file to allow DragonflyBSD
to boot.(By contrast, antiX Linux and Swift Linux automatically add the appropriate
entries in menu.lst.)

Not sure.  I don't use grub.  Sorry.
> 4.  What are the Linux Mint and Puppy Linux of the BSD universe?  I
consider these two distros to set the standard in the Linux universe, because
they're so user-friendly.  These are the distros I've set out to compete
against in developing Swift Linux.

I don't know what these distros are.  Should they be a desktop environment,
I believe PC-BSD is what you should be comparing them to.  I don't think
PC-BSD is as polished as any desktop linux distro.

#######################################
#######################################

Just to reiterate:

Do I love FreeBSD..absolutely, my favorite OS in fact.  Does it have problems in
the Desktop area of all things...absolutely...but it my perception that it's
a server OS anyways.
If skype, wine and other little tidbits worked properly I'd be using FreeBSD
as a desktop hands down.
Linux I keep for *other stuff* that commercial vendors won't budge on, and
that's probably all, otherwise (IMHO) it's garbage.

Not sure if any of this helps...I hope it does.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to
"freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
--
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Manager, UNIX Support Services
Datapipe Managed Global IT Services
1.201.792.4847 (international)
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Michal Varga

2011-Mar-29 09:33 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

As with other people that replied before - my opinions reflect my
opinions that might actually *not* suit your personal needs. But you
asked.

On Tue, 2011-03-29 at 01:32 -0400, Jason Hsu wrote:> Some questions:
> 1.  Is it possible to install KDE, GNOME, or other DE from the FreeBSD
> CD in a reasonable amount of time?  KDE and GNOME are huge programs,
> and having to download them would take too long.
I feel that this was alwas the case, so yes as far as I know (haven't
been installing any stock off-the-disc FreeBSD recently). But I can
hardly imagine any FreeBSD "power user" (what a silly term that is
anyway) that doesn't want to build his own, *proper* and properli
fine-tuned FreeBSD. If prebuilt packages are what you're looking for,
you are most probably not looking for FreeBSD, but something like a
PC-BSD or a similar toy. 

FreeBSD is, to help you draw a comparison, very close to the Gentoo of
the Linux world. Hope that clears some things up.

> 2.  What's lighter than PCBSD and GhostBSD?  I tried the live DVDs on
> my laptop (1.4 GHz processor, 1.25 GB of RAM) and found both BSD
> distros to be very sluggish.  Ubuntu and Mint were faster and fit on a
> CD, and these two distros have been criticized as bloatware.  Also,
> the keyboard didn't work in GhostBSD.  
Deploy your own fine tuned FreeBSD (not that there is any other way to
properly use FreeBSD in a single/home configuration anyway). After that,
build and install the ports you need, properly configure them (both
compile-time and run-time). There is nothing more lighter, adn faster,
you could ever get from anywhere.

Comparison with the monstrous bloatware the kind of Ubuntu and Mint is
really silly, probably comparison with ArchLinux cold still hold
somehow, but even that's a borderline case. The comparison you're
looking for again is "Gentoo".

Also somewhat more opinionated piece: Get a real desktop computer.
Seriously. You don't want to build your own ports/packages on a 1.4GHz
laptop, or at least, not for too long (pun intended).

> 3.  How do I triple-boot Puppy Linux, antiX/Swift Linux, and
> DragonflyBSD?
I'm not sure that's the best question for a FreeBSD mailing list, or at
least, I'm not able to anwser to that.

> 4.  What are the Linux Mint and Puppy Linux of the BSD universe?  I
> consider these two distros to set the standard in the Linux universe,
> because they're so user-friendly.  These are the distros I've set
out
> to compete against in developing Swift Linux.
> 
None, there is no Windows Vista equivalent for a FreeBSD world. Again -
if that's what you're looking for instead of a hand-built and fine-tuned
operating system, you're much better with systems like PC-BSD. FreeBSD
won't do you much good and only hinder you in this case.

FreeBSD is an amazing desktop OS (which I say as an exclusive FreeBSD
desktop user for a decade, so I probably even have a little bit of
experience in that field, in contrast with 'some' other specific people
that replied to you before me), but only If you're looking to put what
FreeBSD offers into good use (that is, for a start - a solid, clean,
polished and very modular and maintaineable OS).

But the feel I get from your questions is that you're really looking for
a magical Windows Vista clone, but with a magical BSD sticker that will
magically raise your horse power just by the sheer magical power of its
own awesomeness. It really doesn't work that way.

I mean, seriously - "Linux Mint"? (Yes, and sadly, I know it well, but
I'm somewhat baffled that you might be actually looking for that *again*
in a BSD world, like if the Linux version wasn't enough for a lifetime).
So honestly, In that case, for the love of god, at least get a proper
Mac. Because that's what you're in fact looking for.

m.

(Disclaimer: I'm in no way trolling and everything I wrote is completely
dead serious.)

-- 
Michal Varga,
Stonehenge (Gmail account)

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk

2011-Mar-29 11:03 UTC

head link

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
wrote:
> I've been trying to switch from Linux to BSD for my everyday computing
> (email, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.), but I couldn't get things
to
> work properly.  I've been so spoiled by the quickness and
user-friendliness
> of antiX/Swift Linux and Puppy Linux for so long.  I have a backlog of
stuff
> to do, so I'm sticking to Linux for now as my main OS.  However, I
might try
> BSD in VirtualBox and on my laptop.
>
> Are there any good tutorials for using BSD on the desktop?  I'm having
much
> more difficulty finding good information on BSD than was the case for
Linux.
>  In retrospect, this shouldn't be a surprise given that Linux is
relatively
> mainstream while BSD is very obscure.
>
> Some questions:
>
> 1.  Is it possible to install KDE, GNOME, or other DE from the FreeBSD CD
> in a reasonable amount of time?  KDE and GNOME are huge programs, and
having
> to download them would take too long.
>
> 2.  What's lighter than PCBSD and GhostBSD?  I tried the live DVDs on
my
> laptop (1.4 GHz processor, 1.25 GB of RAM) and found both BSD distros to be
> very sluggish.  Ubuntu and Mint were faster and fit on a CD, and these two
> distros have been criticized as bloatware.  Also, the keyboard didn't
work
> in GhostBSD.
>
> 3.  How do I triple-boot Puppy Linux, antiX/Swift Linux, and DragonflyBSD?
>  I already use a Puppy Linux/Swift Linux dual boot.  For the life of me, I
> couldn't figure out what to put in the menu.lst file to allow
DragonflyBSD
> to boot.  (By contrast, antiX Linux and Swift Linux automatically add the
> appropriate entries in menu.lst.)
>
> 4.  What are the Linux Mint and Puppy Linux of the BSD universe?  I
> consider these two distros to set the standard in the Linux universe,
> because they're so user-friendly.  These are the distros I've set
out to
> compete against in developing Swift Linux.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
>

1. Within FreeBSD RELEASE 8.2 DVD , there are GNOME , and KDE . Therefore ,
it is not necessary to download them .
    During install , both of them may be installed . After installation , it
is possible to select either GNOME or
    KDE by specifying them in rc.conf , or .xinitrc files .
    All of these steps are explained very well in the Handbook .

There is NO need to compile FreeBSD for installation , but if it is
necessary to customize some of its features , it can be compiled by using
information given in the Handbook .

2. I am experiencing very slow behavior in amd 64 Release 8.2 ( I could NOT
be able to understand the reason ,
    FreeBSD base is very fast but problem is GNOME and KDE ) , but i386
Release 8.2 is sufficiently fast .
    I am using Intel DG965WH main board which may be the cause of slowness ,
but I do not know , because I do not have any other main board to check
apart from the fact that other distributions ( other than than BSD based  )
on the same main board are not exhibiting such a slow behavior . I think ,
this is a temporary problem and in the new stable releases , this problem
will not be present .

3. Personally I never use any hard disk for multiple operating systems .

4. PC-BSD is very user-friendly with respect to installation and usage .
Most parameters are set in the distribution . It comes     with GNOME , KDE
( default ) , XFCE . Any one of them selectable in any time during boot .
PC-BSD is completely based on FreeBSD with added ready made GNOME , KDE ,
XFCE and others as pre-installed . It is possible to install FreeBSD (
ignoring PC-BSD added features ) during installation of PC-BSD as an
alternative .

FreeBSD is not worse than PC-BSD but it requires very well knowledge of the
Handbook , because all of the settings should be specified by the user in
configuration files .

FreeBSD is a well-designed and important operating system and it is a
complex software to perform significant processing in servers .

Single user desktop side is a little weak with respect to parameter settings
.
Instead of being permissively set defaults , they are set restrictively .
This feature is causing very big difficulty for the beginners and preventing
wide adoption ( with respect to my opinion ) .

For example , my need is to use USB stick and DVD/CD auto-mount frequently .
I have set all of the parameters with respect to the information given in
the Handbook . Even I studied PC-BSD to complete possible missing parts .

As a root , auto mount is possible in GNOME or KDE as when they are inserted
, it is possible to see their contents by the file manages ( Nautilus or
Dolphin )  . When I login as a user , a very ridiculous feature called
PolicyKit , is saying that mount is NOT permitted although all of the
parameters are set by the root permitting user mounts of these media . Why ?
I do not know .

In PC-BSD , this is possible . This shows that , I am missing some settings
, but I could not be able to find which ones .

This very small difficulty is preventing my daily use of FreeBSD and it is
diverting me to Linux x86_64 .
( GNOME and KDE in PC-BSD Release 8.2 are very slow in amd64 , means they
are unusable ) .

My suggestion is to use another computer for installing and working on
FreeBSD , PC-BSD to properly learn
their structure instead of trying to install them in existing hard disk with
actually used for other operating systems .

If your laptop/computer allows USB boots , it is also possible to use
external hard disks for installations and using them . Even they can be
installed on USB sticks having sufficient capacity . I prefer external hard
disks because their prices are not very higher than USB sticks ( for example
,  32 GB USB sticks ranges from $ 55 to $ 110 , whereas external 500 GB HDD
prices ranges from $ 68 to $ 100 given in an internet site of a computer
shop with the advantage that HDD is much and much faster than USB sticks . )

If your need is daily use of FreeBSD or PC-BSD , PC-BSD is easier to use .
Its additional package system is PBI but it is possible to install any port
or package from FreeBSD by using pkg_add , pkg_delete , pkg_info , etc. , in
an ( administrative terminal window selected from menus ) .

Thank you very much .

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk

Stephen Montgomery-Smith

2011-Mar-29 13:53 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Jason Hsu wrote:> I've been trying to switch from Linux to BSD for my everyday computing
(email, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.), but I couldn't get things to
work properly.  I've been so spoiled by the quickness and user-friendliness
of antiX/Swift Linux and Puppy Linux for so long.  I have a backlog of stuff to
do, so I'm sticking to Linux for now as my main OS.  However, I might try
BSD in VirtualBox and on my laptop.
>    I have to say that I am taking a bit of the opposite route.  I learned 
Unix on SunOS, and so when I tried i386 Unix's, FreeBSD wasn't that hard
for me.  I have slowly learned quite a lot about its inner workings.  
 From a system administrator's perspective, FreeBSD is pure delight.

But the desktop experience of Ubuntu is so easy, and it works so much 
"out of the box" that I am switching to Ubuntu for a lot of my
everyday
desktop needs.  So, for example, getting flash to work properly with 
firefox on amd64 is too much of a pain under FreeBSD.  And my new ASUS 
laptop has an elan touchpad, which Ubuntu could handle out of the box, 
but FreeBSD couldn't recognize its special features.

One place I do use my computer a lot is with floating point numerically 
intensive programming.  I find that FreeBSD and Unix take turns as to 
who does this the best.  As of today, FreeBSD is definitely winning.  So 
I will always keep both OS's on my computers.

Another thing I love about the ports system in FreeBSD is that you can 
compile the code yourself, switch on or off many of the features of that 
particular piece of software, but still have it play nice with the 
FreeBSD packaging system.  Maybe there is a similar thing I can do with 
Ubuntu, but I haven't figured it out yet.  And I'm not prepared to go 
another route like gentoo - what's the point when I already have FreeBSD.

Torfinn Ingolfsen

2011-Mar-29 16:52 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:32:23 -0400
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> I've been trying to switch from Linux to BSD for my everyday computing
(email, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.), but I couldn't get things to
work properly.
> I've been so spoiled by the quickness and user-friendliness of
antiX/Swift Linux and Puppy Linux for so long.  I have a backlog of stuff to do,
so I'm sticking to Linux for now as my main OS.
> However, I might try BSD in VirtualBox and on my laptop.
IMO; get a second machine (laptop or workstation / desktop) and install
FreeBSD on that. After you get it working the way you want, you can
dump your Linux machine.
> Are there any good tutorials for using BSD on the desktop?  I'm having
much more difficulty finding good information on BSD than was the case for
Linux.
> In retrospect, this shouldn't be a surprise given that Linux is
relatively mainstream while BSD is very obscure.
I really don't understand this question.
If you really are asking about *using* BSD on the desktop, there are
very few, if any, differences compared to Linux. The basic GUI is the
same (Xorg), the DE's are the same (the big ones being KDE, Gnome and
Xfce), and almost all user programs are the same. What is the
difference your perceive?


Myself, I have kept one laptop running Linux (Xubuntu), because of two
things:
a) it is very hard (in Norway at least) to find and buy a
    laptop that will work almost 100% with FreeBSD, unless I want to
    double (or more) the price I can get a good laptop for. Somehow,
    Linux manages to adjust to most of the "fails to meet
   specifications" problems of laptop vendors today.
b) Often, I need (or want) to check out a new service or program that
     only runs on Linux (for the time being).

My main workstation is a desktop, running FreeBSD.
All my test machines (most of them have desktops installed) run
FreeBSD. Granted, many of them are triple-boot and run Linux and other
BSDs as well, for testing purposes.
My servers run FreeBSD.

HTH
-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen

Paul Schmehl

2011-Mar-29 17:12 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

--On March 29, 2011 1:32:23 AM -0400 Jason Hsu <jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> 
wrote:
>
> Some questions:
> 1.  Is it possible to install KDE, GNOME, or other DE from the FreeBSD CD
> in a reasonable amount of time?  KDE and GNOME are huge programs, and
> having to download them would take too long.
I wouldn't recommend installing from the CD for two reasons.  1) The 
installation is "old", so you will have to update it anyway.  Why not
just
build it from source to begin with?  2) You don't have the same flexibility 
you do when installing it from ports.  There you can pick and choose what 
is installed.

Although you think of KDE as huge, it's actually made up of lots of little 
pieces and parts, each of which get installed separately when you build 
from source.  So, you aren't downloading a monolith.  You're fetching
this
and building it, then that and building it until the entire thing is done.

What it *is* is time consuming.
> 3.  How do I triple-boot Puppy Linux, antiX/Swift
> Linux, and DragonflyBSD?  I already use a Puppy Linux/Swift Linux dual
> boot.  For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what to put in the
> menu.lst file to allow DragonflyBSD to boot.  (By contrast, antiX Linux
> and Swift Linux automatically add the appropriate entries in menu.lst.)
Why triple boot when you can run VMs?  When you triple boot you only have 
access to one OS at a time.  When you run VMs, you have access to all your 
OSes all the time.  Much handier and more useful, I think.
> 4.  What are the Linux Mint and Puppy Linux of the BSD universe?  I
> consider these two distros to set the standard in the Linux universe,
> because they're so user-friendly.  These are the distros I've set
out to
> compete against in developing Swift Linux.
FreeBSD is first and foremost a server OS.  Desktop support is lacking when 
compared to the other major OSes (Windows, Mac and Linux).  You can make it 
work, if you want to, but that's not what its primary function is.

If you want a user friendly desktop OS, FreeBSD is probably not your best 
choice.

-- 
Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst
As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions
are my own and not those of my employer.
*******************************************
"It is as useless to argue with those who have
renounced the use of reason as to administer
medication to the dead." Thomas Jefferson
"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very
intelligent person could believe in them." George Orwell

José Miguel Martínez Carrasco

2011-Mar-30 12:00 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Hi,

I read interesting comments about using FreeBSD as your main desktop. Here
are my experience.

I use FreeBSD as my main working environment. I'm a java developer using
openjdk6 with no issues.

Regarding flash, I don't use it and invest that time learning FreeBSD. I
agree with Steve Jobs :)

Finally, the greatest mistake is not reading the terrific FreeBSD handbook.

Best.

Jos? Miguel Mart?nez Carrasco
---------------------------------------
http://www.jm2dev.com
http://identi.ca/jm2dev
http://twitter.com/jm2dev

Andriy Gapon

2011-Mar-30 15:17 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

on 30/03/2011 18:10 Michal Varga said the following:> On Wed, 2011-03-30 at 16:26 +0200, Oliver Pinter wrote:
>> http://hup.hu/node/94286  ;)
>>
> 
> 1.
> $ portinstall -v www/epiphany
> $ epiphany "http://www.youtube.com/html5"
> $ epiphany "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBH1dcHoL6Y"
> 
> 
> 2.
> $ portinstall -v multimedia/quvi multimedia/mplayer
> $ cat ~/bin/streamvid
> quvi -f best "$1" --exec "mplayer -prefer-ipv4 %u
1>&2" > /dev/null
> $ streamvid "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBH1dcHoL6Y"
> 
> 
> 3.
> $ portinstall -v multimedia/cclive
> $ cclive -f best "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBH1dcHoL6Y"
> 
There is also multimedia/minitube

-- 
Andriy Gapon

Charlie Kester

2011-Mar-30 17:30 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

On Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 08:10:23 PDT Michal Varga wrote:>On Wed, 2011-03-30 at 16:26 +0200, Oliver Pinter wrote:
>> http://hup.hu/node/94286  ;)
>> 
>
>1.
>$ portinstall -v www/epiphany
>$ epiphany "http://www.youtube.com/html5"
>$ epiphany "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBH1dcHoL6Y"
Firefox4 is now in ports, and also supports html5.

Zoran Kolic

2011-Apr-01 14:45 UTC

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Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

> I've been using Opera forever. It as an old and proven browser and it
runs
> natively on FreeBSD. You can have the Linux flash plugin attached to it and
> still run the native FreeBSD version. It also supports html5.
I use Conkeror on both desktop and laptop and simply cannot
imagine to go back to <insert_browser>.
Just wonna stress how my nodes run no more than 10 processes
at the boot time and how that differs from whatever os I en-
countered so far. As almost all posters on this topic I do not
care for a dime if someone finds freebsd hard to configure to
suit. It is part of the game and fun itself.
Best regards

                             Zoran

freebsd stable - Mar 2011 - Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD

Best way to switch from Linux to BSD