Hi, I've seen that 'GENERIC' file has been modified, moving some lines to 'DEFAULTS': device isa device mem # Memory and kernel memory devices device io # I/O device Why? What does it mean? Should we include 'DEFAULTS' in our customized 'GENERIC'? Or those lines are no more mandatory? I think it should be written in 'UPDATING'. Regards. -- Cris, member of G.U.F.I Italian FreeBSD User Group http://www.gufi.org/
On Sun, Oct 30, 2005 at 11:36:46AM +0100, Cristiano Deana wrote:> Hi, > > I've seen that 'GENERIC' file has been modified, moving some lines to > 'DEFAULTS': > > device isa > > device mem # Memory and kernel memory devices > device io # I/O device > > Why? > What does it mean? Should we include 'DEFAULTS' in our customized 'GENERIC'?It's included by DEFAULT.> Or those lines are no more mandatory?The point of a DEFAULTS file is that to contain things that are used by DEFAULT, including those which are mandatory.> I think it should be written in 'UPDATING'.No action is necessary. Kris -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/attachments/20051030/f87e4721/attachment.bin
On Sun, 2005-10-30 at 11:36 +0100, Cristiano Deana wrote:> Hi, > > I've seen that 'GENERIC' file has been modified, moving some lines to > 'DEFAULTS': > > device isa > > device mem # Memory and kernel memory devices > device io # I/O device > > Why? > What does it mean? Should we include 'DEFAULTS' in our customized 'GENERIC'? > Or those lines are no more mandatory?DEFAULTS will be included automatically by the new config(8), quoting from markm@ "Its an anti-foot-shooting thing. Scott was concerned that far too many people with kernels based on GENERIC before io was made a separate module were being flummoxed by X not running. This is a way to make npx, mem and io default for even those kernels, as long as they run a modern(tm) config(8)." Look for discussion in cvs-src@. -- Massimo.run();
on 30.10.2005 11:36 Uhr Cristiano Deana said the following:> Hi, > > I've seen that 'GENERIC' file has been modified, moving some lines to > 'DEFAULTS': > > device isa > > device mem # Memory and kernel memory devices > device io # I/O device > > Why? > What does it mean? Should we include 'DEFAULTS' in our customized 'GENERIC'? > Or those lines are no more mandatory? >No, you don't need to include 'DEFAULTS', config(8) will take care of that for you. http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?200510271713.j9RHDNTo013082 AFAICT, this was done in order to automatically include devices which are essential in most cases so less experienced users won't accidentally break their systems and later complain that e.g. X doesn't work anymore. HTH, Phil. -- Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
Hi all!
Since the amount of files goes up,
there is a chance to mess something
with the best in mind. Personaly, I
like simple style of making new
kernel. Defaults? OK if works well,
without complaints for people, who
need nothing more than necessary.
What's about "compat" options for
clean install from medium? Do I need
"freebsd4 and 5" if I use only ports
for ie amd64? Do I go into failure
with something of libraries? And,
more curious to me, "ahc_ahd_reg_
_pretty_print"? If I don't make any
debug output, could I erase it from
my kernel? "Sysv..." memory, queue
and semaphores?
Sorry if I asked already answered
issue. Best regards
Zoran
> >> I've seen that 'GENERIC' file has been modified, moving some lines to > >> 'DEFAULTS': > >> > >> device isa > >> > >> device mem # Memory and kernel memory devices > >> device io # I/O device > >> > >> Why? > >> What does it mean? Should we include 'DEFAULTS' in our customized > >> 'GENERIC'? > >> Or those lines are no more mandatory? > >> > > > > No, you don't need to include 'DEFAULTS', config(8) will take care of > > that for you. > > > > http://docs.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?200510271713.j9RHDNTo013082 > > > > AFAICT, this was done in order to automatically include devices which > > are essential in most cases so less experienced users won't accidentally > > break their systems and later complain that e.g. X doesn't work anymore. > > The whole mechanism seems like an obvious POLA violation. All the more > so without a note in UPDATING. > > Personally, I prefer less automated "help." In general, it might be > better to encourage those who need a nanny to run Windows, leaving > FreeBSD unencumbered for those who don't. IMHO.i agree 100%, i hate wizardy/black-magic, and this 'fix' falls in that class. Why was a 5ton hammer used to fix non existing problem? a small comment like 'you better keep these lines to make X happy' would have sufficed. my .5c, btw, im a happy freebsd user! danny
> You've clearly never spent much time on the FreeBSD support forums, > where every few days someone posts for help > > 1) with an error caused by removing one of those "Do not remove this!" > lines, and > > 2) for help on getting X working when they forgot to add /dev/io and > /dev/mem to their kernel. > > Those of us who spend a lot of time answering such questions will > surely welcome the change, since it will hopefully reduce our > workload. >I understand - and appreciate, your problem. I still think that the solution is wrong. I'm now checking, since it seems that io and mem are loadable modules, that maybe the X start, or rc.d will make sure that these modules are loaded? So that if someone who removes them from the MYKERNCONF is still protected? danny
[...]> Many users who build custom kernels do not build modules, since they > want to compile everything they (think they) need into the kernel > statically.you probably know many scenarios that i - thankfully - am no aware of, but by creating the magic DEFAULTS file the problem still exits! What will prevent from Joe Shootmyfoot to comment out the lines in DEFAULTS? by the way, by just looking at DEFAULTS, there is no warning of the concequenses. a line like: ** DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING HERE UNLESS YOU REALY, REALY ** KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING might help. danny
At 11:18 AM +0200 2005-10-31, Danny Braniss wrote:> you probably know many scenarios that i - thankfully - am no > aware of, but by creating the magic DEFAULTS file the problem > still exits! What will prevent from Joe Shootmyfoot to comment out > the lines in DEFAULTS?chflags schg DEFAULTS -- Brad Knowles, <brad@stop.mail-abuse.org> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
Kris Kennaway wrote:> > You've clearly never spent much time on the FreeBSD > support forums, where every few days someone posts > for help > > 1) with an error caused by removing one of those > "Do not remove this!" lines, and > > 2) for help on getting X working when they forgot > to add /dev/io and /dev/mem to their kernel.I believe *BSD can offer a better solution for such issues. For example, when having firewall_enable="YES", then /etc/rc.d/ipfw does: if ! ${SYSCTL} net.inet.ip.fw.enable; then if ! kldload ipfw; then warn unable to load firewall module. return 1 fi fi So if ipfw is not supported by the kernel, this script will automagically load the ipfw module, or issue a warning what is missing. (Similarly, but not yet implemented, /etc/rc.d/sshd should automagically load the random module, if not in the kernel). My point is then to follow this strategy also for X: instead of a DEFAULTS file, have a /etc/rc.d/xdm script, which starts X and loads the modules io/mem if needed. Rob. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Kris Kennaway wrote:> > You missed the part where I said that the error is > commonly reported by people who have chosen not to > build modules.The DEFAULTS construction is put in place to help 'novices' not to do stupid things (as removing io/mem). However, does 'building a kernel without modules' qualify as a novice action? I wonder. I think if you know how to do that, you've quite progressed in the world of kernel building! Rob. __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
Kris Kennaway wrote:> You've clearly never spent much time on the > FreeBSD support forums, where every few days > someone posts for help > > 1) with an error caused by removing one of those > "Do not remove this!" lines, and > > 2) for help on getting X working when they forgot > to add /dev/io and /dev/mem to their kernel. > > Those of us who spend a lot of time answering > such questions will surely welcome the change, > since it will hopefully reduce our workload.I assume: if a 'novice' innocently removes the io/mem devices, he/she as well will happily add a 'nodevice io' and 'nodevice mem' in their new kernel config....and again scream HELP to the mailinglist when X does not start! Rob. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com