Just curious, maybe some old timers could help me out. I am working with a company that is migrating 20 years of Mainframe Software Development to Unix, HPUX. How much harder would it be to go to Linux, Centos Linux? Also, anyone have any experience with Fujitsu Cobol on Centos? The Fujitsu people only support Red Hat, and said I'd be on my own with Centos. In other words if it works, then I don't care about Fujitsu support. I know some of you are thinking, did someone say "COBOL"? Nobody uses COBOL anymore! If so, let me say "You are wrong". Many large corporations are taking their old business logic that was written in COBOL decades ago, and moving it to new modern platforms, like Linux. Programatically giving these applications a GUI face-lift, while maintaining their original business logic. I know because many companies pay me to do just that. I have a client that wants to use Centos Linux with Fujistu Cobol, and Fujitsu says it's gotta be Red Hat, any help will much appreciated. Thanks, -- Michael Anderson, J3k Solutions Sr.Systems Programmer/Analyst 832.515.3868
On Wed, 2008-05-21 at 13:47 -0500, Michael wrote:> Also, anyone have any experience with Fujitsu Cobol on Centos? The > Fujitsu people only support Red Hat, and said I'd be on my own with > Centos. In other words if it works, then I don't care about Fujitsu > support.Apparently Oracle is the only ISV that's figured out that CentOS *is* RHEL. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ivazqueznet at gmail.com> PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20080521/05836086/attachment-0005.sig>
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 01:47:09PM -0500, Michael wrote:> pay me to do just that. I have a client that wants to use Centos Linux > with Fujistu Cobol, and Fujitsu says it's gotta be Red Hat, any help > will much appreciated.Have the client buy ONE RedHat license so that if they do ever have an issue then they can replicate it on the RedHat machine and get Fujitsu support :-) -- rgds Stephen
Tony Placilla <aplacilla at jhu.edu> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator The Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University>>> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 2:47 PM, in message<48346E2D.4080203 at j3ksolutions.com>, Michael <michael at j3ksolutions.com> wrote:> Just curious, maybe some old timers could help me out. I am working with > a company that is migrating 20 years of Mainframe Software Development > to Unix, HPUX. How much harder would it be to go to Linux, Centos Linux? > > Also, anyone have any experience with Fujitsu Cobol on Centos? The > Fujitsu people only support Red Hat, and said I'd be on my own with > Centos. In other words if it works, then I don't care about Fujitsu > support. > > I know some of you are thinking, did someone say "COBOL"? Nobody uses > COBOL anymore! If so, let me say "You are wrong". Many large > corporations are taking their old business logic that was written in > COBOL decades ago, and moving it to new modern platforms, like Linux. > Programatically giving these applications a GUI face-lift, while > maintaining their original business logic. I know because many companies > pay me to do just that. I have a client that wants to use Centos Linux > with Fujistu Cobol, and Fujitsu says it's gotta be Red Hat, any help > will much appreciated. > > Thanks,A datapoint & the advice you get is worth what you pay. Where I work (in a Uni library) we encounter the same issue. The ISVs *only* support & certify against RHEL. However, I do my development, test, staging, etc. on CentOS that I keep version compliant with upstream. I have had *no* problems. My short answer is, if it works on RHEL, it works on CentOS. Again, YMMV & if it breaks, you get to keeps the pieces.
On Wed, 2008-05-21 at 13:47 -0500, Michael wrote:> Just curious, maybe some old timers could help me out. I am working with > a company that is migrating 20 years of Mainframe Software Development > to Unix, HPUX. How much harder would it be to go to Linux, Centos Linux?It really depends on two things: compatability of the COBOL flavors, legacy and Fujitsu, and competency of the folks doing the work in both legacy and new platforms. I can't answer the specifics of your query though. Last time I did these things was the 1984 - 1994 timeframes. But I can say it was duck soup. Naturally, it wasn't Fujitsu cobol. A few more words later on.> > Also, anyone have any experience with Fujitsu Cobol on Centos? The > Fujitsu people only support Red Hat, and said I'd be on my own with > Centos. In other words if it works, then I don't care about Fujitsu > support. > > I know some of you are thinking, did someone say "COBOL"? Nobody uses > COBOL anymore! If so, let me say "You are wrong". Many large > corporations are taking their old business logic that was written in > COBOL decades ago, and moving it to new modern platforms, like Linux. > Programatically giving these applications a GUI face-lift, while > maintaining their original business logic. I know because many companies > pay me to do just that. I have a client that wants to use Centos Linux > with Fujistu Cobol, and Fujitsu says it's gotta be Red Hat, any help > will much appreciated.I don't know if it's still around, but my efforts were using MicroFocus Cobol, which (IIRC) was eventually bought by SCO. I was porting mainframe application development to a three-tiered development architecture. Target apps would run on IBM mainframes, be developed, tested, debugged on DOS PCs (later on real UNIX System V). If MF COBOL is still available, might be worth a look. It was very good then. Should be very good now if still around. It was *very* compatible with the IBM flavor(s). The only significant changes were in the Configuration Section and adding screen-specific code. Of course, no i'net then, so I imagine there will be more stuff added to support net stuff. The most trouble, as I recall, was that most programmers were just so-so even at COBOL and had no concept of hardware issues or underlying OS issues at all. I can't tell you how many times I had to help various programmes out just because of mixing modes of read statements - "read" vs "read into". Of course, I had a strong assembly background too, so I saw the implications (read locate mixed with read move mode as implied by the two forms of the COBOL read) that they may not have had the background to recognize. If the folks doing the work a competent on both platforms, or the team "community knowledge" includes that expertise and it's freely shared, should be just a lot of mechanical effort after the first couple of programs are converted.> > Thanks, >HTH -- Bill
On Wed, 2008-05-21 at 14:51 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:> Apparently Oracle is the only ISV that's figured out that CentOS *is* > RHEL. >I was just told in no uncertain terms that it is not RHEL.
Michael wrote:> Just curious, maybe some old timers could help me out. I am working with > a company that is migrating 20 years of Mainframe Software Development > to Unix, HPUX. How much harder would it be to go to Linux, Centos Linux? > > Also, anyone have any experience with Fujitsu Cobol on Centos? The > Fujitsu people only support Red Hat, and said I'd be on my own with > Centos. In other words if it works, then I don't care about Fujitsu > support. > > I know some of you are thinking, did someone say "COBOL"? Nobody uses > COBOL anymore! If so, let me say "You are wrong". Many large > corporations are taking their old business logic that was written in > COBOL decades ago, and moving it to new modern platforms, like Linux. > Programatically giving these applications a GUI face-lift, while > maintaining their original business logic. I know because many companies > pay me to do just that. I have a client that wants to use Centos Linux > with Fujistu Cobol, and Fujitsu says it's gotta be Red Hat, any help > will much appreciated.I would just buy the RH licenses for the project. CentOS may work well for development and testing platform, but the production code should be on fully supported RHEL. I haven't done Cobol and Fortran programming since college where I learned these on the DEC VAX VMS systems. It was interesting to see VMS also running on the DEC Alphas at the time since I always associated it with minis. -Ross ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof.
Michael wrote:> Just curious, maybe some old timers could help me out. I am working > with a company that is migrating 20 years of Mainframe Software > Development to Unix, HPUX. How much harder would it be to go to Linux, > Centos Linux?I think you would be better served looking for a flavour of COBOL that provides portability via platform independence, rather than choosing your platform and then a COBOL to suit. We use ACUCOBOL from Acucorp for this reason. Our code, once compiled, will run on many different platforms without us doing anything. Acucorp had the write once run everywhere idea well before Java did.> Also, anyone have any experience with Fujitsu Cobol on Centos? The > Fujitsu people only support Red Hat, and said I'd be on my own with > Centos. In other words if it works, then I don't care about Fujitsu > support. > > I know some of you are thinking, did someone say "COBOL"? Nobody uses > COBOL anymore! If so, let me say "You are wrong". Many large > corporations are taking their old business logic that was written in > COBOL decades ago, and moving it to new modern platforms, like Linux. > Programatically giving these applications a GUI face-lift, while > maintaining their original business logic. I know because many > companies pay me to do just that. I have a client that wants to use > Centos Linux with Fujistu Cobol, and Fujitsu says it's gotta be Red > Hat, any help will much appreciated.I know COBOL is still out there, and the latest tools for GUI development let you build apps that users can't recognise as COBOL apps. Business logic in COBOL is rock solid and won't be replaced anytime soon. With a GUI front-end, why change?> > Thanks, >Cheers, Ian
On : Wed, 21 May 2008 16:57:37 -0400, "Ross S. W. Walker" <rwalker at medallion.com> wrote:> I would just buy the RH licenses for the project. CentOS may work well > for development and testing platform, but the production code should > be on fully supported RHEL.Having been on RHEL support, and having had occasion to use that support quite extensively, I have formed an opinion to the contrary. My experience did not lead me to the conclusion that licensed RHEL distributions, together with the highest available level of support offered by RedHat, provided any measurable benefit over CentOS and community support. In fact, my experiences with RedHat Support, which were not in the least bit negative, led me to abandon RedHat, first to WhiteBox and thence to CentOS. The practical matter is that RedHat Support is provided in layers, with minimally experienced person filtering support calls. This was, and I expect still is, the case regardless of what level of support is purchased. By the time a serious problem got to a person in RedHat who possessed anywhere near my own experience with the systems under consideration either I had already solved the issue (usually with help from Goole or project specific mailing lists), identified a satisfactory workaround, or had determined that the problem was unsolvable in the timeframe required with the resources available. RedHat support people were unfailingly polite and helpful, but the fact remains that the value for fee was not evident. Immediate support (which is really the only kind that matters to an organization, anything else is really a development project of some sort) for open source systems comes in two basic flavors, enlightenment and custom consulations. Enlightenment is provided by informed individuals who are willing to share their knowledge and experience with others who problems are products of their own ignorance. Members of this mailing list have provided enlightenment to me on many, many occasions. Custom work is either provided from ones own resources or is contracted out to people who really know the system you need fixed/enhanced within a minimal amount of time. I have engaged open source software authors to enhance their products with features that our firm desired on many occasions and in fact am doing so with one at the present time. I cannot perceive any measurable advantage to having a support contract for OSS, other than perhaps with the actual core team of the exact product you are using. RH is a packager, which is not to denigrate either the value of the integration work that they do, or its technical merit. Nonetheless, most OSS support problems are either resolved by re-reading the specific package documentation, having an obscure feature identified and explained by someone that knows about it, bypassing the impediment, or when all else fails writing and submitting your own patch. -- *** E-Mail is NOT a SECURE channel *** James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca 9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241 Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757 Canada L8E 3C3
We use COBOL on Unix. I have worked with NCR/AT&T Unix and since 1995 have been supporting COBOL on SCO Unix. I am in the process of porting to CentOS and RHEL. We use RM/COBOL. It is supported by Liant at www.liant.com We use it for internal and Internet programming. They also support Web Services using COBOL. -----Original Message----- From: centos-bounces at centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:47 PM To: centos at centos.org Subject: [CentOS] COBOL Just curious, maybe some old timers could help me out. I am working with a company that is migrating 20 years of Mainframe Software Development to Unix, HPUX. How much harder would it be to go to Linux, Centos Linux? Also, anyone have any experience with Fujitsu Cobol on Centos? The Fujitsu people only support Red Hat, and said I'd be on my own with Centos. In other words if it works, then I don't care about Fujitsu support. I know some of you are thinking, did someone say "COBOL"? Nobody uses COBOL anymore! If so, let me say "You are wrong". Many large corporations are taking their old business logic that was written in COBOL decades ago, and moving it to new modern platforms, like Linux. Programatically giving these applications a GUI face-lift, while maintaining their original business logic. I know because many companies pay me to do just that. I have a client that wants to use Centos Linux with Fujistu Cobol, and Fujitsu says it's gotta be Red Hat, any help will much appreciated. Thanks, -- Michael Anderson, J3k Solutions Sr.Systems Programmer/Analyst 832.515.3868 _______________________________________________ CentOS mailing list CentOS at centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Hi, Michael In begining excuse me my English. I know it is not my strongest side. At secoundary scool from 1985 to 1988 I learnt COBOL in Hungary in an IBM 360 clone called R20. It was a standad mainframe of the socialist part of Europe. Two mounth ago I decided I relearn it by OpenCobol. Because of my two children and so much work it is now only a dream. But I have a question: is the OpenCobol with a Linux Distibution (perhaps Debian) a solution for your problem (maybe???)? I am sure the Identification and Environment Division will snugly must rewrite. Best all, and have a real succes! Zoli 2008/5/21, Michael <michael at j3ksolutions.com>:> Just curious, maybe some old timers could help me out. I am working with a > company that is migrating 20 years of Mainframe Software Development to > Unix, HPUX. How much harder would it be to go to Linux, Centos Linux? > > Also, anyone have any experience with Fujitsu Cobol on Centos? The Fujitsu > people only support Red Hat, and said I'd be on my own with Centos. In other > words if it works, then I don't care about Fujitsu support. > > I know some of you are thinking, did someone say "COBOL"? Nobody uses COBOL > anymore! If so, let me say "You are wrong". Many large corporations are > taking their old business logic that was written in COBOL decades ago, and > moving it to new modern platforms, like Linux. Programatically giving these > applications a GUI face-lift, while maintaining their original business > logic. I know because many companies pay me to do just that. I have a client > that wants to use Centos Linux with Fujistu Cobol, and Fujitsu says it's > gotta be Red Hat, any help will much appreciated. > > Thanks, > > -- > Michael Anderson, > J3k Solutions > Sr.Systems Programmer/Analyst > 832.515.3868 > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >