Hello Guys Is Saturday and just to get my Actually poor Asterisk knowledge a little more rich How far is IAX to be a Industry Standard I mean like SIP or H.323 , IAX seems to be the answer to many many NAT problems in this Out-Of-Available-IP's World but what does the big guys (cisco , etc) think about IAX? what does the RFC's guys and the Pseudo-Cisco IETF think about this Protocol? I think This year is the consolidation of Asterisk is incredible. I abandon the track of asterisk for a while , but when I turn arround and see the advances I'm Back!!!!! Regards HA
> Hello Guys > > Is Saturday and just to get my Actually poor Asterisk knowledge a > little more rich > > How far is IAX to be a Industry Standard I mean like SIP or H.323 , > IAX seems to be the answer to many many NAT problems in this > Out-Of-Available-IP's World but what does the big guys (cisco , etc) > think about IAX? > > what does the RFC's guys and the Pseudo-Cisco IETF think about this Protocol?Who cares? It's not all that uncommon for a standard to be devised by people doing the work in an area, and then for the RFC to be written to document the standard. There are VoIP providers offering IAX, so it's clearly on the radar. If it's a worthy technology, it will eventually win out (and it looks to me like that's exactly what is happening). ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
Benjamin on Asterisk Mailing Lists
2004-Oct-30 14:48 UTC
[Asterisk-Users] How far is IAX to be a Standard
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:37:35 -0600, Voip Business <voipbusiness@gmail.com> wrote:> How far is IAX to be a Industry Standard I mean like SIP or H.323Frank Miller, the author of the IAX specification document is doing further work on the specification with the intend to eventually submit to the IETF. He has been on other such IETF projects, so he know what he's doing, he's the right man for the job. However, we all know the realities of life, there are the things we would love to do, and there is the bread and butter business that takes up all of our time, leaving only very little time for the things we'd love to do. Frank, too is a busy man and therefore, please don't bother him about deadlines. If anybody wanted to speed this up I presume a sponsorship would be the kind of thing that could free up his time and thereby make it possible for him to spend more time on the draft. rgds benjk -- Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan. NB: Spam filters in place. Messages unrelated to the * mailing lists may get trashed.
> what does the RFC's guys and the Pseudo-Cisco IETF think about this > Protocol?the internet vendor task force has a massive amount invested in sip. so there will be a lot of 'guidance' to have it published as an informational rfc. if iax catches on in the market, then they'll have to play. otherwise, expect to have a hard time getting iax on the ivtf standards track. randy
Hello IAX really isn't the 'one and only' perfect signaling protocol because many people forget one thing IAX has one technical issue (by design) which makes it difficult to ever get accepted by the big boys, a real big problem for carriers who have big loads on their systems like we do. With IAX the audio (RTP) and signaling goes embedded over one port. We all know that the big advantage ofcourse is that this makes it an excellent performer behind a NAT, but the big disadvantage is that there is not any DSP chip available in the market which is able to get the codecs encoded and put into this embedded rtp+signaling channel, and I wander if there ever will be because another piece of software does the signaling (asterisk in this case) asterisk would have to 'tell' the DSP chip the signaling packets to embed into the IAX/RTP channel.. That would be a whole new DSP standard, Will any chipmaker (besides digium) ever see the need to design such a chip? Anyhow, the situation now, is that there is no DSP chip, that means .. Your main processor has to encode the channel in total (3 to 4 E1's absolute is the max possible with dual xeon 3 ghz I read somewhere in this case) Another method is to send the incoming IAX on asterisk out again with SIP to a gateway with hardware DSP's.. (like we do).. This needs less performance ofcourse because asterisk doesn't have to do codec encoding, but nevertheless will still have to transcode to get the signaling and RTP merged and submerged from/to this one IAX port to separate Signaling/RTP ports.. Our setup now is the second scenario.. And my first (rough) calculations are that a dual xeon 3.0 ghz can handle about 500 concurrent channels in this scenario... Ever wandered why there isn't any codec (DSP) hardware availiable for asterisk?? I think here is the answer, because it is very hard to make, Digium should then be able to design a totally new DSP chip design .. And that's much more difficult than to design an E1 board. Our case is that we have about 200 E1's of voip (h323 and sip) traffic and are still expanding. If we would have this all on IAX this would be unmanageable, we would need 50 linux boxes. Conclusion.. IAX Is a good performer behind NAT and perfect for small setups but to work in an enterprise, Much work has to be done. Niels. -----Original Message----- From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Michael Giagnocavo Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:13 PM To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: How far is IAX to be a Standard Unless SIP just plain does not work, I think it'll be hard (for IAX to get excellent acceptance), without a lot of good marketing and other efforts by Digium. At VON, only a few people even understood what Asterisk was, let alone even had heard of IAX. Even with IT people controlling things you still see a lack of good decisions. How many people do SSL POP3? How many people use S/MIME? All very simple things that don't require reworking of dedicated hardware or huge industry efforts. My only point is that we can't just rely on a better design to somehow magically win out. Getting Digium to create a standard with input from other vendors would be a huge plus and help pave the path forward. -Michael -----Original Message----- From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:39 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: How far is IAX to be a Standard I see your point and it is well taken but I feel that with convergence you are going to see more IT staff in charge of phone systems. In turn, I see more research and informed decisions going on, not just a consumer following what is being pushed. That being said, maybe I am just looking at a grey sky through blue sunglasses.> >From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com > [mailto:asterisk-users->bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Totaro > >>I predict a paradigm shift, rendering what is historical, null. > > Is this in general, applying to all technology, or just to telecom?(i.e.,> will Hollywood ship videos in hi-def on EVD?) > > -Michael > >> >No worries here. What works best will win out eventually. >> >> Not sure where you get that idea, as historically it's not that way:S.>> >> Companies will make SIP work reasonably enough. What will win out is >> whatever is marketed and sold the best. Getting published specs, inc. >> being >> a published "standard" is part of that marketing. >> >> -Michael >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Randy Bush" <randy@psg.com> >> To: "Voip Business" <voipbusiness@gmail.com> >> Cc: <Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com> >> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:44 PM >> Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Re: How far is IAX to be a Standard >> >> >>>> what does the RFC's guys and the Pseudo-Cisco IETF think about this >>>> Protocol? >>> >>> the internet vendor task force has a massive amount invested in >>> sip. so there will be a lot of 'guidance' to have it published >>> as an informational rfc. if iax catches on in the market, then >>> they'll have to play. otherwise, expect to have a hard time >>> getting iax on the ivtf standards track. >>> >>> randy >>> >>>_______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> I'd say some learning on high > availability Linux/clustering etc > is in order.I know all about it, but 50 boxes is just too much. -----Original Message----- From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Matt Riddell Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 1:00 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: How far is IAX to be a Standard niels@wxn.nl wrote: --SNIPSTA--> Anyhow, the situation now, is that there is no DSP chip, that means .. > Your main processor has to encode the channel in total (3 to 4 E1's > absolute is the max possible with dual xeon 3 ghz I read somewhere in > this case)This has a problem. PC's are so cheap now that you'd be silly to have more than 4 E1s on one PC. The idea is not to build one huge PC, but multiple small ones. This helps no end when trying to add redundancy etc. I.E. if you have say 5000 lines on one PC (to take it to the extreme) and that PC dies, you have just lost 5000 lines. If you have 100 lines per sever and 50 servers, you only lose 100 lines if the PC dies, and you can probably reroute to other servers.> Another method is to send the incoming IAX on asterisk out again with > SIP to a gateway with hardware DSP's.. (like we do).. This needs less > performance ofcourse because asterisk doesn't have to do codec > encoding, but nevertheless will still have to transcode to get the > signaling and RTP merged and submerged from/to this one IAX port to > separate Signaling/RTP ports.. Our setup now is the second scenario.. > And my first (rough) calculations are that a dual xeon 3.0 ghz can > handle about 500 concurrent channels in this scenario...As above.> Ever wandered why there isn't any codec (DSP) hardware availiable for > asterisk?? I think here is the answer, because it is very hard to > make, Digium should then be able to design a totally new DSP chipdesign ..> And that's much more difficult than to design an E1 board.No. The reason that there is none is that Asterisk is designed to use cheap off the shelf PC hardware.> Our case is that we have about 200 E1's of voip (h323 and sip) traffic> and are still expanding. If we would have this all on IAX this would > be unmanageable, we would need 50 linux boxes.As above.> Conclusion.. IAX Is a good performer behind NAT and perfect for small > setups but to work in an enterprise, Much work has to be done.I'd say some learning on high availability Linux/clustering etc is in order. -- Cheers, Matt Riddell _______________________________________________ http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html) http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss) _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> There is already one chipmaker who thought that > IAX was important or competitive advantage enough > to embed it into their chip.Which? -----Original Message----- From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Benjamin on Asterisk Mailing Lists Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 3:38 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: How far is IAX to be a Standard niels@wxn.nl wrote:> IAX really isn't the 'one and only' perfect signaling protocolIAX is *not* a signalling protocol. It is a VoIP protocol. And that's the whole point. H.323, SIP, et al those are all signalling protocols, half protocols so to speak. IAX is a self-contained, true internet protocol. In a world where everything is moving towards peer to peer that is an advantage. Dedicated protocols for signalling-only have been designed for large telcos and yesterday's telco infrastructure, not for the future of voice on the net peer to peer style.> signaling (asterisk in this case) asterisk would have to 'tell' the > DSP chip the signaling packets to embed into the IAX/RTP channel.Do you actually know how IAX works? There is no such thing as IAX/RTP, none whatsoever. Again, that's the whole point of IAX. If you refer to the urban legend that IAX always needs a server to stay in the media path, then you would be wrong. IAX has a mechanism that for all practical purposes is equivalent to a SIP reinvite through which the end points then transition to a mode by which they communicate directly peer to peer.> Will any chipmaker (besides digium) > ever see the need to design such a chip?There is already one chipmaker who thought that IAX was important or competitive advantage enough to embed it into their chip. So, precedence has been set already. This trend can be expected to continue. And, no, Digium had no involvement in this (Mark please correct me if I am wrong). rgds benjk -- Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan. NB: Spam filters in place. Messages unrelated to the * mailing lists may get trashed. _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> Steve Totaro [asterisk@totarotechnologies.com] lazily top-posted: >> This thread was started by Randy Bush, thought that name rang a bell. >> Good conversation nonetheless. >> > You forgot to make a point. >The point is obviously that its a good conversation nonetheless. Plain english.