It seems that there is no standard for folder names that deal with typical message classes such as drafts, outbox, sent, spam etc. At least there's no common sense on a naming convention that tells how client should handle this. Worse than this, most IMAP clients auto-create folders according to their own naming convention if they don't exist. Every client introduces its own view. Users OTOH expect a single view that makes it easy for them to find their messages. They are unwilling to search in "sent", "sent-mail" or "Sent items" for "messages that have been sent". I doubt that software producers will adopt a standard naming convention if it was introduced within a useful time span. Has anyone seen an approach or a solution that solves the problem from a users point of view? A server side alias list that maps to a server standard? p at rick -- state of mind Digitale Kommunikation http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstra?e 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 M?nchen Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht M?nchen Partnerschaftsregister PR 563
* Patrick Ben Koetter <p at state-of-mind.de>:> Has anyone seen an approach or a solution that solves the problem from a users > point of view? A server side alias list that maps to a server standard?Tried that, didn't work out that great (users got confused by 12 dozillion "sent" folders). As for know, I auto-subscribe new users to a public namespace which contains information on how to configure their email clients exactly the same way that the different webmail interfaces I offer are. As a second line of defense, a cron script checks once a day if there is a typical "duplication" of folders ("sent", "sent-mail", "Gesendet") and this script then proceeds to annoy the hell out of said users by sending them an email once a day, until the user either acknowledges that he doesn't care (database entry), fixes the problem or opts in for an automatic fix (moving messages to the right folders. Make sure to include a huge disclaimer, this kills indices). Ciao Stefan -- Stefan F?rster http://www.incertum.net/ Public Key: 0xBBE2A9E9 FdI #28: ... werden wir den Schutz Minderj?hriger in den Vordergrund - stellen. Im Grunde wei? ich genausowenig ?ber die ganze Sache wie meine W?hler, aber verbieten bringt mehr Stimmen. (Peter Berlich)
On Sep 25, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:> Has anyone seen an approach or a solution that solves the problem > from a users > point of view? A server side alias list that maps to a server > standard?Symlinks maybe? Or something similar done internally. The main problem would anyway be LIST command, should it show all of them or somehow try to figure out which one to show?
Patrick Ben Koetter schrieb:> It seems that there is no standard for folder names that deal with typical > message classes such as drafts, outbox, sent, spam etc. At least there's no > common sense on a naming convention that tells how client should handle this. > > Worse than this, most IMAP clients auto-create folders according to their own > naming convention if they don't exist. Every client introduces its own view. > > Users OTOH expect a single view that makes it easy for them to find their > messages. They are unwilling to search in "sent", "sent-mail" or "Sent items" > for "messages that have been sent". > > I doubt that software producers will adopt a standard naming convention if it > was introduced within a useful time span. > > Has anyone seen an approach or a solution that solves the problem from a users > point of view? A server side alias list that maps to a server standard? > > p at rick >Hi Patrick, i see no way to push coders to standart folders use but with autocreate and global sieve rules you can implement a pseudo standart i use tbs one and configure horde/imp like tb does it, in my meaning big players have no intension bring up even a pseudo standart cause they want users to use their own mail services and server implementations ( google, apple, m$, etc ) and earn money with it but as reality shows, if there is a good faq side for your server setup most imap users are smart enough to configure their clients -- Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer Germany/Munich/Bavaria
On 25/09/2009 11:14 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:> It seems that there is no standard for folder names that deal with typical > message classes such as drafts, outbox, sent, spam etc. At least there's no > common sense on a naming convention that tells how client should handle this. >XLIST may deal with this in the future. It has been initially implemented as an IMAP extension by GMail and Apple iPhone's email client. It allows localized naming of drafts, sent, etc while allowing the server to tell the client the mapping between well-known folder types and their actual name. http://groups.google.com/group/Gmail-Help-POP-and-IMAP-en/browse_thread/thread/a154105c54f020fb?pli=1 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=476260 It oddly seems to have been barely documented or pushed ... though it is sufficiently simple and useful that I hope it gets wide support. Cheers, Rob Middleton.
Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:> It seems that there is no standard for folder names that deal with typical > message classes such as drafts, outbox, sent, spam etc. At least there's no > common sense on a naming convention that tells how client should handle this. > > Worse than this, most IMAP clients auto-create folders according to their own > naming convention if they don't exist. Every client introduces its own view. > > Users OTOH expect a single view that makes it easy for them to find their > messages. They are unwilling to search in "sent", "sent-mail" or "Sent items" > for "messages that have been sent". > > I doubt that software producers will adopt a standard naming convention if it > was introduced within a useful time span. > > Has anyone seen an approach or a solution that solves the problem from a users > point of view? A server side alias list that maps to a server standard? > >A crude workaround would seem to be symlinks. Perhaps a cron job to scan for likely aliases, then merge them into your preferred folder names and symlink them. This would mean if the user creates a "Sent" folder, you would eventually find it, and symlink it to your "Sent Items" folder and merge any items created so far. This is imperfect in that you end up with multiple folders visible in the folder list (confusingly often showing the same data in each...). Deletes are also going to be fun because deleting "Sent" will just kill the symlink, deleting "Sent Items" will kill all your mail and leave the symlinks broken... Server side aliases would help here I guess? The XLIST extension as others have pointed out will help a lot. Feature request for Dovecot I guess? Possibly there is some clever way to use namespaces to help hide these duplicated folders..? Would love to see this solved myself also! Good luck Ed W